[Rant] Chinese animosity

[1Alpha1]

China can build to any quality specified. To say everything manufactured in China is junk is a very broad and incorrect generalization.

John Deere has been using Chinese parts for a long time now, and the engines in their new Gators are sourced from a Chinese car company. They are far from junk.

My younger brother has a lot of experience in metallurgy. He is a proto-type aero-space machinist. He knows his metals and how to work with them. He knows all too well about their metal working ability.

One thing China is not good at, is metallurgy. Their metals basically suck in a big way.

I'm aware that many US products have Chinese-made parts in them. There's nothing that I can do about that. But, I will not go out of my way to buy a product that was made in China.

China has it's reputation for a very good reason, not only products manufactured there, but human rights, politics, and poor health-care, are only a few of the issues currently plaguing their country.

 

[Rockjock]

I beg to differ!!!

My example is spot on. Many companies go to China because the labour is so cheap. No unions, no worry about strikes, American, German, French, Canadian the list goes on. They set up shop, they run things the labour is supplied by the Chinese and away we go. I think your beef is with the companies that make knock off products. On that we are on the same page.

 

[RAS61]

Even if a manufacturer pays top dollar, quality from China is still inconsistent. I heard this first hand from the maker of high end American telecopes. He said one batch of lenses could be great, and the next would be 95% unusable. Instead of the parent company getting what they pay for, I think China's manufacturers looks to screw the customer whenever and wherever they can, even if it only means saving a penny. This is very consistent with every Chinese born person I've ever met - completely self centered with no hint of morals or ethics. Is this really surprising from the only country on the UN security council that supports N. Korea and blocks sanctions against their human rights crimes?

Because of these reasons I always inquire where an item is manufactured, and will always avoid if it's made in China. Actually, I've found I can get superior products made in other countrys, including the USA, for comparable prices - sometimes even lower. One example is tablesaw blades; I've bought blades made in Italy (Irwin) and the USA (Porter Cable) with 5 star ratings for less than Chinese made blades (DeWalt) that get mediocre reviews. DON'T SUPPORT TYRANNY!

 

[Chris-PA]

So many ideas about what is driving this, but all missing the reality. Of course there is corruption, greed and manipulation on all sides - there always is, but that does not mean it's the driving force. The manipulators and con artists thrive when there are real problems creating chaos.

In this case the problem is the costs of accumulated debt and rising costs of energy that make industrial manufacturing unprofitable, especially in regard to what consumers can afford to pay (remember that most things are also bought with debt). Making and selling a product and paying a fair wage does not provide enough return to cover costs, so companies try to cut costs further to keep it going. Some try to eliminate employee costs by the path of total automation, others get rid of the manufacturing costs by going overseas to really cheap labor (often rolling back automation).

Still the costs of debt and energy keep rising. Guess what happens next?

Unless said company has Western representatives on the ground overseeing the Chinese operations you can bet your left one you won't receive what you paid for - and they well and truly know it.

Well, they don't really care about us, and why should they? We went there asking them to make us stuff for a fraction of what we'd pay people at home, which they know full well. Is it a surprise when they try to get the margins back up? And the western firms know what the game is too, but they want that return. There is no honor in the whole thing.

There isn't anything made in China that I would care to own. Absolutely nothing!!

What the heck did you type that on?

 

[Rockjock]

This is very consistent with every Chinese born person I've ever met - completely self centered with no hint of morals or ethics. Is this really surprising from the only country on the UN security council that supports N. Korea and blocks sanctions against their human rights crimes?

I applaud your keenly pressed white sheet and hood sir! I have met a great many people from Mainland China, Hard working, honest, and decent. Many of them highly educated, working in the medical field, lawyers in research labs. Funny I have heard people describe Americans the exact same way you did. But I know better I do not live in a bubble.

 

[RAS61]

I applaud your keenly pressed white sheet and hood sir! I have met a great many people from Mainland China, Hard working, honest, and decent. Many of them highly educated, working in the medical field, lawyers in research labs. Funny I have heard people describe Americans the exact same way you did. But I know better I do not live in a bubble.

That's fantastic. I don't know why the few I've met have the same negative thread, a coinsidence perhaps, but my actual experience like it or not. Maybe it had something to do with the fact they were in business and commerce instead of your encounters from the humanitarian fields like medicine? Perhaps it is also the end result of generations of living under a religionless society with gov't corruption and human rights violations? I can't explain it, but before you make accusatory statements you might want to come down off your pedestal and think a little first; if I was racist, would I care about the human rights violations going on in China and N. Korea, not to mention actually doing something about it?

 

[Rockjock]

That's fantastic. I don't know why the few I've met have the same negative thread, a coinsidence perhaps, but my actual experience like it or not. Maybe it had something to do with the fact they were in business and commerce instead of your encounters from the humanitarian fields like medicine? Perhaps it is also the end result of generations of living under a religionless society with gov't corruption and human rights violations? I can't explain it, but before you make accusatory statements you might want to come down off your pedestal and think a little first; if I was racist, would I care about the human rights violations going on in China and N. Korea, not to mention actually doing something about it?

My encounters have been in manufacturing, composites, injection forming, stamping, medical. My perception is one from someone who used to live not far from china town, worked in a plant with people from China, Laos, Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam, India etc.. So I saw the good and the bad in most. I can say good for the most part. Painting a culture as broadly as you did does hint a bit of racism I am sure you would agree. In my experence when a part is made in china we would do our own QC on it as well. if it did not pass it would be destroyed and we would get a credit for another. At he end of a shift cycle the reject bin would have a handful of parts. 2-5 parts out of 100,000 was more than acceptable. Failure was always due to fitments. But this case is specific.

The fact remains that they are willing to work 24/7 to get the part, product made. We can be outraged about human rights but as someone pointed out, we look the other way when it comes to that so we can have our goods. Mea Culpa

 

[tlandrum]

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[BWS-LLC]

I find this post highly racist.

WTF???

Seriously.....

 

[WheresWally]

I work very closely with engineers that have manufacturing facilities in China.

It is very simple the way they work, but often referred to as backward when compared to how we work...

If we enlisted an American (for example) company to make part "A" we would get a response somewhere along the lines of "part A will cost 1000$ per unit". We would know it would be of the highest quality, we would then need to have it "spec'd" down and it's quality reduced to meet our budget.

If we enlisted a Chinese company to make part "A" the response would be "part A will cost 1$ per unit" we know that it is of the lowest possibly quality and we would need then to have it spec'd up to a point where quality and value are acceptable.

Where a lot of companies fall into the trap, is they decide to go with the Chinese part A at the initial cost not realizing that Chinese engineering/manufacturing works in opposite order to ours.

They have the best facilities and some of the best abilities in the world and are more than able/capable of making world class products, unfortunately, the reason for the poor quality that exports from there is us and our constant need to aquire things for next to nothing in order to turn greed fueled enormous profit.

 

[MrGiggles]

My younger brother has a lot of experience in metallurgy. He is a proto-type aero-space machinist. He knows his metals and how to work with them. He knows all too well about their metal working ability.

One thing China is not good at, is metallurgy. Their metals basically suck in a big way.

I'm aware that many US products have Chinese-made parts in them. There's nothing that I can do about that. But, I will not go out of my way to buy a product that was made in China.

China has it's reputation for a very good reason, not only products manufactured there, but human rights, politics, and poor health-care, are only a few of the issues currently plaguing their country.

I wholeheartedly agree.

I get a little irritated when somebody jams nationalism down my throat and chastises me for owning a Toyota. I would be more than happy to buy only American goods if that were reasonable or even possible.. But the fact is my Camry was put together in Kentucky and the Chrysler they're driving was more than likely assembled in Mexico or Canada.

I'm not referring to anyone specific in this thread. I've got a feeling this thread won't be around for anyone to see much longer anyway.

 

[MCW]

Well, they don't really care about us, and why should they? We went there asking them to make us stuff for a fraction of what we'd pay people at home, which they know full well. Is it a surprise when they try to get the margins back up? And the western firms know what the game is too, but they want that return. There is no honor in the whole thing.

There is a bit more to it than that. You'll approach a better known, higher quality company to get chemicals or fertilizer manufactured. The second you take your eyes off them they proceed to outsource it to a cheaper, dodgier company, who then proceeds to outsource it to an even cheaper and dodgier company. This is why the bigger companies have Western representation on the ground and is why we never have problems with Chinese fertiliser/chem from these companies.

 

[Ironworker]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/05/opinion/the-price-of-made-in-china.html?_r=0
The first batch of the decking the welds failed pushing the job back.

 

[Chris-PA]

There is a bit more to it than that. You'll approach a better known, higher quality company to get chemicals or fertilizer manufactured. The second you take your eyes off them they proceed to outsource it to a cheaper, dodgier company, who then proceeds to outsource it to an even cheaper and dodgier company. This is why the bigger companies have Western representation on the ground and is why we never have problems with Chinese fertiliser/chem from these companies.

Understood - but my point is why shouldn't they do that? They know why we're there, and it's usually not for any noble reasons. Why are companies who go there for the basest of motivations then surprised to be treated in kind?

 

[MCW]

Understood - but my point is why shouldn't they do that? They know why we're there, and it's usually not for any noble reasons. Why are companies who go there for the basest of motivations then surprised to be treated in kind?

Actually most are there because there are no other sources of tech globally. It's not always as simple as it sounds.

 

[Chris-PA]

Actually most are there because there are no other sources of tech globally. It's not always as simple as it sounds.

Oh, there often are, but not at a price that would be profitable unless it's military, medical or high end industrial stuff. Which goes back to my original comment about industrial manufacturing no longer being a profitable venture.

 

[1Alpha1]

China cuts corners when it come to manufacturing, whether or not, you (the customer) are aware of it.

Hell, they cut corners like crazy when it comes to their own building codes, and their own pay for it in the end.

 

[Derf]

WTF???

Seriously.....

Yes, seriously.

Racism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Racism consists of both prejudice and discrimination based in social perceptions of biological differences between peoples, including forms of discrimination that are unintentional, such as making assumptions about preferences or abilities of others based on racial stereotypes, and symbolic or institutionalized forms of discrimination such as the circulation of ethnic stereotypes.

Ethnic stereotype
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An ethnic stereotype, national stereotype, or national character is a system of beliefs about typical characteristics of members of a given ethnic group or nationality, their status, society and cultural norms.



So "Culturalism" = Racism. Its like saying 'All American's are Budweiser-drinking, NASCAR watching, Rednecks', or 'All Mexicans are dirty and lazy! At least all the ones I've met are... But I'm not a racist, I'm just a culturalist'.

I'm sorry, but I do not agree that you can generalize an entire culture of people, especially given you haven't met more than 0.0000000001% of the 1.4 Billion of them to actually know what they are all like.

 

[OnTheRoad]

There out there people, I know some of you guys are anti union but that's what made this country what it was not only are we losing to overseas but we're also losing the battle right on our own shores, it is possible to get goods reasonably priced without slave labor the g

I order my boots from union boot pro, and only wear boots made in USA of USA materials. Im switching my work clothes over as I can. I buy USA made whenever possible and if not, I try to buy from countries that support fair working conditions. I'm also union and proud of it.

 

[Rockjock]

I order my boots from union boot pro, and only wear boots made in USA of USA materials. Im switching my work clothes over as I can. I buy USA made whenever possible and if not, I try to buy from countries that support fair working conditions. I'm also union and proud of it.