I wanted to lighten my saw and move more airView attachment 217436
046 poly flywheel on an 064
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wigglesworth
Booned
So..... How did u overcome the starter issue?
Computer Illiterate
I access the internet through my phone, evidently cannot effectively modify pics on a computer, and must deliver some info on my topic whether I have pictures or not
Soooooooooo.....
First, I removed the lip on the case side of an 046 poly flywheel so that it would clear an 064 case. Crank tapers match; keyway locations do not.
Then, during the process of drilling the starter pulley spindle on an 064 starter housing, I discovered that the spindle was not part of the housing casting. It is an individual piece and in fact, threads into the 064 housing. During this procedure, I destroyed the original 064 spindle and damaged the threads in the housing. My original intention was to tap the 064 housing to accept the one piece 046 screw/spindle.
Now, I simply put the 046 pulley assembly into the 064 starter housing and installed the 046 screw/spindle into the now damaged threads.
I "eyeballed" the keyways of the flywheels and knew the timing would be off. Slapped it together, fired it up, and discovered that this arrangement functioned, though it idled way too fast.
Finally, upon a more thorough teardown and comparison in order to produce some descriptive imagery for this post, I've discovered that the 046/064 spindle threads are not identical, and the pawl engagement is a mere 2-3 millimeters. I think that between a thread correction (using an insert) and milling down the 064 starter housing, I can increase pawl engagement to an acceptable level. It may be necessary to install a compression relief valve to alleviate undue strain on the 046 starter components.
Any thoughts? Recommendations for metric thread inserts would be greatly appreciated.
I access the internet through my phone, evidently cannot effectively modify pics on a computer, and must deliver some info on my topic whether I have pictures or not
Soooooooooo.....First, I removed the lip on the case side of an 046 poly flywheel so that it would clear an 064 case. Crank tapers match; keyway locations do not.
Then, during the process of drilling the starter pulley spindle on an 064 starter housing, I discovered that the spindle was not part of the housing casting. It is an individual piece and in fact, threads into the 064 housing. During this procedure, I destroyed the original 064 spindle and damaged the threads in the housing. My original intention was to tap the 064 housing to accept the one piece 046 screw/spindle.
Now, I simply put the 046 pulley assembly into the 064 starter housing and installed the 046 screw/spindle into the now damaged threads.
I "eyeballed" the keyways of the flywheels and knew the timing would be off. Slapped it together, fired it up, and discovered that this arrangement functioned, though it idled way too fast.
Finally, upon a more thorough teardown and comparison in order to produce some descriptive imagery for this post, I've discovered that the 046/064 spindle threads are not identical, and the pawl engagement is a mere 2-3 millimeters. I think that between a thread correction (using an insert) and milling down the 064 starter housing, I can increase pawl engagement to an acceptable level. It may be necessary to install a compression relief valve to alleviate undue strain on the 046 starter components.
Any thoughts? Recommendations for metric thread inserts would be greatly appreciated.
nmurph
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wigglesworth
Booned
So ur sayin, u can swap the 064 rope rotor for the 046 rotor, and what? Add some shims behind it? I'm still kinda confused as to how ur getting a good engagement of the pawls. I am highly interested in seeing if this swap can be executed properly, and reliably. I picked up a real nice 064 recently that I would love to try this swap out on.
So ur sayin, u can swap the 064 rope rotor for the 046 rotor, and what? Add some shims behind it? I'm still kinda confused as to how ur getting a good engagement of the pawls. I am highly interested in seeing if this swap can be executed properly, and reliably. I picked up a real nice 064 recently that I would love to try this swap out on.
Your quote highlights the problem. That being pawl engagement. I did not catch my mistake until I tore the whole operation down for this post. At which point I examined the 046 pawls and noticed the minimal engagement. To be honest, I took no notes of the original assembly. That leaves me without insight as to my original ideas. I will say that overlooking a discrepancy of the magnitude of which I'm now aware is unlike me. I generally limit my oblivion to the obvious
However I believe I have discovered my mistake; I think I failed to notice the depth that the starter pulley was seated in the starter housing. All I can really say is that I threw some parts together and it worked. Now I know that I still have some obstacles to overcome to gain a an acceptable level of longevity.I'm leaning towards a housing mod to move the pulley inboard, but a pulley mod may be easier...
Just a fine example of what can happen when you cannot leave well enough alone
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Devil is in the details!!! I am still working on decent pics. I removed 2.5 mm from my 064 starter housing, added a 2 mm disc to shim the 046 starter pulley, and had to add some custom MODS to correct the wear on my "extra 064" starter housing. Well, I gotta work on presentable pics...
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Pawl engagement should be at least as good as factory 40 series saws which were originally 7-8mm total out of the maximum of 9mm possible engagement.
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Fan/Shroud relationship
Original Equipment 064
Original Equipment 046 Arctic
Modded 064/046 parts mix
Looked to me like trimming the OE 064 shroud to emulate the 046 shroud was a good idea. Of course I'd rather have a custom shroud that fits the 064 starter, yet duplicates the 046 design where it meets the flywheel
Original Equipment 064
Original Equipment 046 Arctic
Modded 064/046 parts mix
Looked to me like trimming the OE 064 shroud to emulate the 046 shroud was a good idea. Of course I'd rather have a custom shroud that fits the 064 starter, yet duplicates the 046 design where it meets the flywheel
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wigglesworth
Booned
Wow...
So just a new spindle shaft, and a 2mm shim behind the recoil spring will bring it in enough to engage fully? That is, if Im reading right, that all the extra parts added were due to excessive wear, no?
Good work BTW.
So just a new spindle shaft, and a 2mm shim behind the recoil spring will bring it in enough to engage fully? That is, if Im reading right, that all the extra parts added were due to excessive wear, no?
Good work BTW.
Thanks for the compliment I also removed 2.5mm from the mounting surface of the starter housing. Yes, the two special pieces were to correct some impressive wear. I think that housing had a lot of " miles" on it, but a decent housing shouldn't need those extra pieces.
Now I've gotta correct the timing (accelerated idle speed), but I'm hopeing to find coil that is a closer match to the poly flywheel. Or maybe an offset key and slot the coil holes.
I'm definitely open to suggestions.
I also removed 2.5mm from the mounting surface of the starter housing. Yes, the two special pieces were to correct some impressive wear. I think that housing had a lot of " miles" on it, but a decent housing shouldn't need those extra pieces. Now I've gotta correct the timing (accelerated idle speed), but I'm hopeing to find coil that is a closer match to the poly flywheel. Or maybe an offset key and slot the coil holes.
I'm definitely open to suggestions.
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wigglesworth
Booned
Thanks for the compliment
Now I've gotta correct the timing (accelerated idle speed), but I'm hopeing to find coil that is a closer match to the poly flywheel. Or maybe an offset key and slot the coil holes.
I'm definitely open to suggestions.
Id put the original coil and FW back on, then line it up to where the magnets line up with the coil, then screw a piston stop in until it touches the top of the piston. Use that as reference, and slap the 046 FW back on, line it up with the coil, make sure the piston stop is touching the piston and torque her down. That should get you close. You will need a timing light to make any further adjustments though.
Thanks, I really like that! A simple, direct and effective solution to at least get it as close as I need it for now. I must admit that I've been rather distracted from the 064 by my "new" 372XPG:msp_rolleyes:
I added an elasto-start handle to the modified starter housing to smooth out shock-load on the 046 components. I may also add a decomp valve. I remember reading in the Stihl 046 owner's manual that the purpose of the decomp was to reduce wear on the starter components. Of course, I'll just have to put it to work to see how it holds up...:chainsawguy:
