050 051 075 076 Info Thread

[Duke Thieroff]

The second picture I sent you over PM appears to be the lug type sprocket as well, but that Sabre spur sprocket I just sent a picture of throws a whole 'nother wrench in the mix.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Here's a clear example of the difference between the old and new worm setups using the one pic from you and another one I ran across searching on the subject...

That last spur drum pic looks like it may be the 7 pin .404 solution if the 1st pin lines up and the 2nd just sits between the spurs on the opposite side using a 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock drive setup. Where I'd need to drill would obviously be with an 8 pin spur drum changing to a 3/8's setup. That drum looks like the ticket. Hell, shoot me a PM/convo and let me know what ya need for everything in your pics and we can whittle it down from there. That last spur drive drum in .404 may just be the ticket, provided the inside diameter accommodates the needle bearing, etc. I really appreciate your help and hope this will help someone else down the road too... when we get it all sorted out!!!

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[PogoInTheWoods]

Huge props to 'Duke' for all his help and effort. Dude went way out of his way to dig through all his stuff and tear down a coupla carcasses doin' his best to help me figure out what was what and what he may be able to provide toward the cause. Came up with a variety of alternatives that I hope to document here in the near future by some of the pics he provided in our rather lengthy series of convo's/PM's from today ....and ultimately after I receive the parts and hopefully arrive at a solution.., or variety of different solutions depending on which variables are applied to the situation from the parts he scrounged up for me.

If ya haven't checked out his upstart operations and explored his inventory yet, you may be surprised at what he's got goin' on.

Dude is nails. Simply outstanding.

Ya da mang, Chris. Thanks, buddy!

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Received my box o' goodies from Chris today along with another one from Definitive Dave with quite a few options to explore toward finding a solution to my particular 051 oiler issue...and maybe for a few other scenarios other than my own before it's all said and done as well.

Thanks for jumpin' in, Dave. Hope ya get out from under that flu soon.

Pics as time permits the process to continue. Quite a bit of clutter on the bench sorting out boxes of parts for an unrelated project at the moment.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Poge!


Glad you got the stuff.

Keep me posted on your findings.



Chris

 

[sefh3]

Inquiring minds would like to know of all of the possible combinations that series had for oilers.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Inquiring minds would like to know of all of the possible combinations that series had for oilers.

I'll do my best, which is the objective at this point...as soon as I get a boatload of 1127 parts off my bench!

BTW, I received a significantly huge binderesque old school binder full of hard copy Stihl documentation on these saws from Dave. Lots of tech notes, updates, all that sorta stuff circa the '70s that should shed light on things well beyond what the latest MediaCAT or other readily available digital media currently provides.

Updates forthcoming as they occur...

 

[Definitive Dave]

I'll do my best, which is the objective at this point...as soon as I get a boatload of 1127 parts off my bench!

BTW, I received a significantly huge binderesque old school binder full of hard copy Stihl documentation on these saws from Dave. Lots of tech notes, updates, all that sorta stuff circa the '70s that should shed light on things well beyond what the latest MediaCAT or other readily available digital media currently provides.

Updates forthcoming as they occur...

hope my OCD binder helps

after sending it off I realized I also have microfiche data on those saws circa 1993, which is bit later than the hard copies, I have a microfiche machine but not sure how to scan the pages to something printable that could be included in the binder, anybody with a solution let me know. I have similar tech info available for all the Stihl products from this era, so if anybody needs research lit for other saws hit me up.

DDave

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

My week really got backed up and I hope to make some progress with an update or two today or tomorrow. Sure wish I could help on the microfiche conversion thing. There has got to be a way...or service like a copy place maybe?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Just a quick update that I'm making progress with the documentation from Dave and the parts from both Chris and he. A solution is already at hand, but I intend to explore this as far as I can just to get it out there for anyone else who finds their head in their hands over the same issues. I shot a vid (with my phone) last night with one hand while trying to provide some examples with the other that I may post later after I review it again. Kinda shaky and sounds like I'm making fun of Randy Evans (Mastermind) with a fake country accent, but I guess I really do sorta have one, even for an Ohio boy...at least when I'm takin' about saws anyway!

Can these oil pumps be upgraded or modified to flow more oil?

And just to be sure on the above, you do know the oiler is adjustable? Just gotta know the lever is there and what it's for. I didn't realize what it was at first myself.

I hope to have a little more time this evening to get into more of Dave's docs and get a few more pics up -- or just upload the vid, or maybe make a better one.

 

[Rockfarmer]

I have read all threads, thanks very much to original poster!! Great thread! This was probably covered before but thanks to some hacking (hacker) we lost a majority of the pics. Im a pics kind of guy. My question is,...... can the old 051's lousy starter cup that strips out, coil, flywheel be changed over to the newer starter pawl type flywheel with better ignition? Pleeeeze say yes!!!! And how, thanks so much!!!

 

[sefh3]

I have read all threads, thanks very much to original poster!! Great thread! This was probably covered before but thanks to some hacking (hacker) we lost a majority of the pics. Im a pics kind of guy. My question is,...... can the old 051's lousy starter cup that strips out, coil, flywheel be changed over to the newer starter pawl type flywheel with better ignition? Pleeeeze say yes!!!! And how, thanks so much!!!

I don't think you can without switching the whole recoil/ fuel tank to the newer setup. One from a 076 would work and it would give you a bigger fuel tank.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Switching to the newer style recoil from the older friction shoe design is possible as Scott says, but looks like it would be a bigger pain in the ass to do than repairing a broken friction shoe recoil in the first place...at least based on a quick look at MediaCAT and some of the docs I have handy courtesy of Definitive Dave.
(And finding all the parts you'd need for the changeover could prove to be quite a challenge all by itself.)

So unfortunately, the simple answer to your question seems to be "no", re: just swapping the recoil mechanism. That said, these saws do have a history of going through some mighty weird changes...some of which not clearly documented, hence this thread. Maybe someone will chime in with a magic bullet for ya and I'll root through the docs a little more too, but it looks like the whole fan housing / tank assembly would need to be swapped as Scott mentioned.

 

[sefh3]

There where some design changes to the recoil/tank housing also. The older tanks will not fit on the newer saws either. The tank hits the coil.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Ok, so back to the oil pump issue...which isn't really an oil pump issue, but rather an oil pump drive issue (at least in my case) with all kinds of confusion over the various methods used to actually drive the oil pumps in the 1111 series saws over the years. Here are a few pics to set the stage for a pretty crappy video that is by no means definitive (Hi Dave!!!) and which also contains some inaccuracies both in terminology and the actual scope of what I was attempting to explain. Just figured some basic verbalization along with even some minimal visualization may help...and the visualization is certainly minimal since I just set my phone down on the bench, hit the record button, and went for it. There is definitely more to this than what I've put together so far and I'll try to get some additional detail posted like cross-ref'd part numbers and such...of which there are a bunch...but for now just wanted to spew out some sort of update for the huddled masses with all the wrong parts on their 1111's wonderin' why the damned things won't oil.

And there are a few other variants of these drives including a spur approach that uses the lug-style worm and what I've seen reference to as even a lug-style worm that fits the old style pump (at least in old docs), though that's some really muddy water and probably why so much of this confusion exists in the first place. Anyway, here's the basic rundown. Hope it helps make some sense out of a pretty damned rambling video primarily focused on the crank of an 051 with only the most fleeting frames of actually relevant examples of what I was trying to convey! I'm certainly open to any / all questions anyone may have on all of this....., or more answers and more iinfo on the subject from anyone who can provide it. That's obviously the whole point! And I am aware of the variations and improvements over time of the oil pumps themselves, but that stuff is fairly well documented and not nearly as confusing as the drive issues.

Cheers, gang.​

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[PogoInTheWoods]

And the Oscar goes to....

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[PogoInTheWoods]

What makes this whole thing even more maddening is that some of the parts from the different drive variations actually do sorta fit other setups, sorta. LIke the early version drive plate I recently ran across with the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock pin orientation is actually stamped 3/8'' when there wasn't even a 3/8" spur option back then, though the drive plate will indeed straddle a rim drive spline just fine and drive the oil pump. It just won't let the rim itself enough lateral leeway typical in a rim setup to allow the chain to self- align along the bar path from the sprocket to the bar nose...which essentially creates excessive lateral stress on the pins and ultimately failure. What also happens with this mismatch (mis-label?) is it is very easy for an operator installing a chain to think he's in the rim drive while actually having the chain threaded between the rim drive and the pin drive washer and riding on the spline and the pins instead. Again, failure in fairly short order.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

And the Oscar goes to....

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Great video!

The Oscar goes to you!

 

[Kfd518]

075/051 Muffler question

I have an 075 here, yes it has the though the cylinder studs with 58 mm piston the following a pics of the setup it has. My problem is that I need to get a new muff for it but unsure of figment issues. Is the muffler flange bolt spacing the same on both models or is the 051 smaller. I hav what appears to be an 051 muffler cover on an 075 all pictures I have found only show this muffler when searching 051 muff. Also included is pic of mud cover.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Different part numbers for both the mufflers and the muffler gaskets between the 051 and 075 in the MediaCAT IPL's. Probably several others in the old research volume docs as well. I'm guessing the exhaust port on the 075 has a wider bolt pattern...just a guess. Someone with an 051 jug handy may chime in with a more definitive answer.