2 Way splitter design stage w/ Solid Works

[Dan_IN_MN]

Hello

I know I posted about a two way splitter under chainsaws. However, I think I'll move the posting to here. I have access to a metal fab shop, so cutting, welding, and materials shouldn't be a problem.

I got the idea of a two way splitter from www.northerntool.com or here is a direct link: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/...omer driven-_-Recently Viewed-_-Category Page

Ram in fully extended position

Ram in fully retracted position

Cross section showing inside workings...no cylinder as of yet

Whole splitter.


I'm open to suggestions for the design.

Dan

 

[Mike Van]

My 2 cents - That N.T. 2 way splitter is someones gimmick, don't let it be yours. If you want to build a splitter, do a conventional one. Stronger, easier, and if you get tired of it, you can resell it pretty easy. How much wood do you have to split? Just for yourself? Strength wise, I can't see the sliding wedge coming close to the fixed one, maybe thats why N.T. has that splitter rated at 9 tons. Any hyd. ram will only pull a % of what it will push. Example is a 4" ram with 2" rod, 2000psi. It will push 25120 lbs, but only pull 18840. Do yourself a favor & bag this idea. :deadhorse:

 

[jgoodhart]

:agree2:

I would spend more time on a 4 way and 6 way wedge system to improve performance on a conventional style splitter.

 

[Kleek]

Look at split-fire.com. Far from a gimmick. I own the 9 hp model with 4-way wedge and log lift. Strength, power and light weight all in one design. Take it from an owner, you will be impressed.

 

[dancan]

I have rented a splitfire about 4 years ago , work very well and efficient , not a gimmick but a real piece of equipment .

 

[dancan]

Nice drawings by the way .

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Thanks for the replys!

Thanks for the replies!

If I'm going to put time and money into building a splitter, I do want something that will work well and that I like running. This is why I'm asking questions before cutting any metal or buying any hydraulic parts. I do take in consideration every ones input. So, please keep the constructive comments coming!

My 2 cents - That N.T. 2 way splitter is someones gimmick, don't let it be yours.

Why do you call it a "gimmick"?

If you want to build a splitter, do a conventional one. Stronger, easier, and if you get tired of it, you can resell it pretty easy.

True

How much wood do you have to split? Just for yourself?

I just started burning wood this winter so I'm not sure how much wood I'll be going through. I like the fact that one doesn't have to wait for the ram to return to split another log. I could see my splitter blessing others too.

Strength wise, I can't see the sliding wedge coming close to the fixed one, maybe that's why N.T. has that splitter rated at 9 tons.

Isn't there equal pressure on the wedge and pusher on std splitters? Why is the splitter going to be weaker with the wedge moving and the pushers stationary? My thoughts are that there will be more support on the wedge than a normal pusher has with a tube inside a tube. Wouldn't that have more surface area to add strength? I'll also been thinking about putting bearings or cam followers so there is less friction between the sliding tubes.

Any hyd. ram will only pull a % of what it will push. Example is a 4" ram with 2" rod, 2000psi. It will push 25120 lbs, but only pull 18840.

Is this because of the reduced surface area on the piston because of the rod? 6,280 lbs difference isn't too bad of a difference in my thoughts. If I know I have a tough log I could put it in on the pushing side instead of the pulling side.

Do yourself a favor & bag this idea.

I'm going to put more thought and time designing before the drawstring on the bag is pulled all of the way closed. My time is consumed from 12 to 9:30 with my 8 month old daughter, unless she's napping, so....I've got a bit of time to think on this one.

Thank you,

Dan

 

[ericjeeper]

The concept is great

I think Gravely made one years ago. I was thinking of building one myself. Really it is pretty simple. Providing you have steel fabrication equipment.Take a 6 inch tube steel square.Then find another tube or heavy channel that will fit inside. Only need three sides.. Bottom will be open.The cylinder will live in this channel. Wedge at one point will actually be above the rear pin of the cylinder. When extended the wedge will go to the opposing block..

If you go to Northern tools page for the pwerhorse splitter they even give you a very detailed image and parts breakdown.. I mean very detailed... very

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

CAD Computer Aided Drafting

I have rented a splitfire about 4 years ago , work very well and efficient , not a gimmick but a real piece of equipment .

Dan

I'll have to check out splitfire. Thanks for the kind words about my solid model /drawing.

Dan

 

[Jredsjeep]

wow i have never seen a design like this before. i would say its very viable, like mentioned if you have a knarly piece put it on the push side.

one problem i can see is the opening where debre could fall in and wedge between the two tubes riding in each other. might not be a big deal as long as it has a way out.

btw another solid works user got professionally certified last year.

 

[ducati996]

You will have to pay attention to the amount of debris that will collect in the open channel in which the ram traverses in (depending on direction).
That will be vurnerable to debris collection and will require frequent cleaning, and may distract from the "value proposition" you are trying to achieve (Labor saver as being one)

 

[Wirenut2266]

Many: Like the thought, but yeh I would stay away. From strength to debris, could be a future issue. Build a strong one with log lift and table, you'll be golden. If you want a real nice one, put in a satellite radio, you'll be the envy of the neighborhood.!!!

 

[Mike Van]

Dan, when you look at the real "Cadillac's" of wood splitters, TimberWolf, American, and Iron and Oak, & some others, they all have one thing in common - A ram that pushes wood against a wedge. On one end. It's a tried & true design thats split a billion cords of wood, and will be for a long, long time. It's simple & it works. That two ended wedge would probably do o.k. if all you split is nice straight stuff, but then a maul would too. Hey, it's your time & your dime - I just put that N.T. made by Chaing Kai Chek splitter in the same catagory as the big screw you put on your rear wheel, the "wood grenade" and several other gimmicks. If I had to chose, I'd pick a regular horizontal bed splitter with a 4 or 6 way wedge any day. And, this part

"I could see my splitter blessing others too."

If you want to keep your friends, don't lend out your tools & equipment. Like I said, just my 2 cents.

 

[371groundie]

my only problem with a splitter of that design is that you have to move the wood after its split. i use a horizontal splitter with a stationary wedge so that as the wood splits is pushes the previously split peices away. trig the wheels and you can make a 5 foot tall pile.

people with splitters that tilt vertical also have this problem. i just dont like having to handle the wood twice. other than that it looks like a good plan.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

f you want to keep your friends, don't lend out your tools & equipment. Like I said, just my 2 cents.

Mike

I would come with the splitter. I know others do not take care of things like I do. Example: I lent out my shop fluorescent trouble light. The guy was changing his transfer case. When I got it back it was coated with grease! This is not how I would have used it. Use it like you stole it?

Dan

 

[modn]

I can't believe the people giving thoughts on something they have never used or even seen probably....Amazing!! God forbid anyone would think out of the box.....can you say Hydrostatic, automatic tranny, self oiling chainsaw, hydraulic instead of cable operated just to name a few. It is a real splitter and a different way of thinking. You think your splitter is fast?? This thing will bury ANY 2 people tring to feed it. Go and rent one or watch the video at www.split-fire.com I have one and love it. They also can come with a log lift if you like or a 4 way wedge or they will build it to accomodate 48" logs if you like. As far as the ram having the wedge or push plate is personal preference. I personally like the wood to stay in one spot and roll the pieces back in to be split again as I'm usually only splitting 12"+ wood, but to each their own as there can be an argument either way. By the way the owner of American wood splitters that live 20 miles from me thinks they are a good machine and they are his competition. As far as the ones in Northern I have no idea as I've never used one. I say build it, it's tried and true by many owners. Also: debris is a non-issue.

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

Bi-directional .splitter baged! Thanks for the input!

my only problem with a splitter of that design is that you have to move the wood after its split. i use a horizontal splitter with a stationary wedge so that as the wood splits is pushes the previously split peices away. trig the wheels and you can make a 5 foot tall pile.

people with splitters that tilt vertical also have this problem. i just dont like having to handle the wood twice. other than that it looks like a good plan.

371groundie

Where the wood ends up! This is a good reason not to build this design! This isn't something that I had thought of. I believe the drawstring on the bag is drawn tight.

Thank you all for your input!

Dan

 

[Dan_IN_MN]

I might have to cut that drawstring on the bag...splitfire

Dan

I'll have to check out splitfire. Thanks for the kind words about my solid model /drawing.

Dan

For what ever reason I didn't check out splitfire until now. That thing made short work of a couple of large chucks of wood! I'm not sure where I'll be going with this.......thoughts to consider....

Do check out www.splitfire.com Their videos take a bit to load...but worth seeing.

Dan

 

[kevin j]

Neither concept is good or bad, it depends on where you want the wood to end up.

With fixed wedge, if you have the cylinder force and a 4 way wedge, it passes through once and out. but its a pain to pick up the wood, move it back, and split again if you need to.

With moving wedge, wood stays put. Retract cylinder, rotate wood, and run it through again. But then you have to move it through after splitting by hand or throwing.


So, if moving wood through once, bigger machines, especially onto a conveyor or out table, the fixed wedge is more efficient work flow.

If splitting wood multiple times, the moving wedge is more efficient work flow.

personal preferences, what size and type of wood, etc.
Since I get almost all wood under 18 inches diameter, moving wedge is my preference.

kcj

 

[modn]

For what ever reason I didn't check out splitfire until now. That thing made short work of a couple of large chucks of wood! I'm not sure where I'll be going with this.......thoughts to consider....

Do check out www.splitfire.com Their videos take a bit to load...but worth seeing.

Dan

Make sure it is www.split-fire.com