661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[redbull660]

omg. it wasn't the porter. it wasn't the oil. It was the amount of oil.

once maulhead's 661 started running 40:1 H1R even though I was still running 50:1 he was kicking my azz.

He may have even been kicking my azz if he simply went to 36:1 H1R.

For the last time H1R simply has more oil in the bottle than most others. When u dump it into the gas you actually have MORE oil in the gas then others. Need less H1R to do the same job as others.

It has nothing to do with the porters. Or the oil being "crap".

 

[porsche965]

That said a 60:1 test is in order with H1R. My bet is that it would be fine in firewood applications.

 

[Hedgerow]

Test Criteria​

Control Factors

The following CRITICAL factors that MUST be controlled.

1. Wood consistency
   1. Do not use multiple logs for testing the same mix. Make three cuts in the same log in order to obtain an average.
   2. Honestly, if you want the most accurate results, this testing should be done on a dyno.
2. Tuning
   1. The saw must be tuned in the cut, giving it what it wants, not just what a tach saws. I would use a tach for reference and to check myself. Tuning would be done in a separate log, so as to not waste good test wood.
3. Cutting technique
   1. The dawgs cannot be used at all! The cut should be started with the saw at full RPMs, dropped into the log very decidedly, and a consistent load maintained on the saw for the entire cut. Best cut times will come from a moderately heavy load, but not lugging it at all. A feel for this can only be gained through experience.

Oils and Ratios

Determine the high viscosity oils to be tested.

1. Bel-Ray H1-R
2. Motul 800 2T
3. Maxima K2
4. Klotz R50

Determine the moderate viscosity oils to be tested.

1. Motul 710
2. Yamalube 2R
3. Lucas

Test each oil at the following ratios.

1. 32:1
2. 40:1
3. 50:1
   1. Note: I would not split hairs testing any additional ratios at this point. You can do that after you chose an oil.

Tests

1. Test each mix in at least two MTronic saws, muffler modded only.
   1. MS661C
   2. MS362C or MS261C
2. Test each mix in at least two standard carbed saws, muffler modded only.
   1. MS660
   2. MS461, MS361, MS261
3. Test each mix in at least two MTronic saws, ported.
   1. MS661C
   2. MS362C, MS261C
4. Test each mix in at least two standard carbed saws, ported
   1. MS661
   2. MS461, MS361, MS261

Yes, that’s a LOT of tests, but only after you have that data can you begin to draw some conclusions. Doing so without this data is only guessing and making assumptions.

This is only a first take at it. I'm sure it needs some refining.

TL; DR

 

[Andyshine77]

omg. it wasn't the porter. it wasn't the oil. It was the amount of oil.

once maulhead's 661 started running 40:1 H1R even though I was still running 50:1 he was kicking my azz.

He may have even been kicking my azz if he simply went to 36:1 H1R.

For the last time H1R simply has more oil in the bottle than most others. When u dump it into the gas you actually have MORE oil in the gas then others. Need less H1R to do the same job as others.

It has nothing to do with the porters. Or the oil being "crap".

How do you know it isn't the oil if you didn't compare other oils?? Sorry H1R is one of the problems, you are apparently the other. If an oil effects combustion that much, it's garbage. I'm done with this stupidity. Later.

 

[KG441c]

How did the reg. Carb. Saws @ 32:1 run against these 661s?

 

[Andyshine77]

That said a 60:1 test is in order with H1R. My bet is that it would be fine in firewood applications.

I have little doubt a saw will run on that ratio for a good long while. However if you open up two saws of the same make, with the same amount of fuel run through them, you'd start running more oil.

 

[huskihl]

Dude you're still not getting it. Run another oil as thick as h1r (like r50) at 32:1 and compare the results to those of h1r. If r50 runs better than h1r at 32:1 then you know it's h1r that has performance issues, not thicker oil in general that has performance issues. Hard to perform non biased tests when you're clearly biased toward h1r

 

[KG441c]

If the less ratio runs better its in an autotune saw or the saw being ran at 32to1 isnt jetted and tuned properly. Simple

 

[redbull660]

Dude you're still not getting it. Run another oil as thick as h1r (like r50) at 32:1 and compare the results to those of h1r. If r50 runs better than h1r at 32:1 then you know it's h1r that has performance issues, not thicker oil in general that has performance issues. Hard to perform non biased tests when you're clearly biased toward h1r

Boggles my mind how you guys are so hung up on this golden ratio...somehow all oils are created equal and must be run at 32:1.


"Going from a leaner oil ratio to a richer oil mixture just increases the amount of oil you are pumping into the combustion chamber. If you are running too rich you have excess oil that will just come in and go right out in the exhaust. It might also lower the power in the engine by just bogging the piston down with excess oil."


"When you are adding more oil to the mixture you are providing more oil to form the fluid film in the cylinder. That film does offer some resistance to the movement of the piston and could slow it down some. Remember, the main goal of the lubricant is to protect before anything else. It is protecting the surface but it will also impede the movement slightly because of its physical nature.

Now, when you are talking about rpms in the low thousands of larger engines, the difference will be small, but when you start reaching the high rpms of a wide open throttle in a small 2-stroke motor, the difference in engine speed can be more noticeable. Therefore, the saw is spinning just slightly slower and the cutting would take longer. This would also affect the temperature because as the engine is spinning slower, the fuel/oil mix is entering at a slower rate so there is less fuel and oil entering into the cylinder to cool the piston."


"Many other 2-stroke oils utilize light solvents as carriers in order to better dissolve them in the gasoline and carry the additives easier (some are up to 30% solvent). These light solvents do burn very easily and will attribute to the combustion. The H1-R is pure oil and does not have any solvents, this is one of the reasons H1-R can also sometimes be used at a leaner mix ratio than other oils as well."

 

[bwalker]

Or it might just inhibit combudtion because it's garbage.
Many other QUALITY oils run good down to 16:1 including 800 which is a similar viscosity.

 

[redbull660]

Or it might just inhibit combudtion because it's garbage.

How and why exactly does it inhibit combustion? A nice detailed answer would really help.

 

[Time's Standing Stihl]

What I think is comical about this thread is if you go read the first 10 pages.....everyone worships the H1-R. 3,000 posts later......its garbage

 

[bwalker]

How and why exactly does it inhibit combustion? A nice detailed answer would really help.

I no longer want to HELP YOU.

 

[nitehawk55]

Someone needs to stick a fork in this thread , it's way overdone with a lot of poor information and foolishness without fact .

Find a good oil , use it and have fun cutting. There is no magic elixer out there that will make your saw run better and stronger !! Use common sense , take care of your saw and it will last you for years .

 

[bwalker]

I see...and no one else either. Guess there is no reason left for you to post on this thread then. cya.

I think your the only one left that doesn't get it...

 

[redbull660]

I think your the only one left that doesn't get it...

so if it inhibits combustion. Than it should be way slower than the other oils. Right? So running any other oil should blow it away. yes?

...especially something like lucas or 710 or 2R or R50 or 800 ???


This I've gotta see. I mean seriously if it's that crappy and runs that much slower. you would have my full apology. gotta see this!

best place to get 800, 2r, r50, 710, lucas?

anyone want to chip in on the oil ?

 

[KenJax Tree]

Rocky mountain atv and O'Reilley's for Lucas

 

[porsche965]

Sure I will.

 

[mdavlee]

Comet kart sales was cheaper the other day than rocky mountain. They had free shipping over $50.

Rocky Mountain has all of them in stock. I can chip in for some

 

[bwalker]

so if it inhibits combustion. Than it should be way slower than the other oils. Right? So running any other oil should blow it away. yes?

...especially something like lucas or 710 or 2R or R50 or 800 ???


This I've gotta see. I mean seriously if it's that crappy and runs that much slower. you would have my full apology. gotta see this!

best place to get 800, 2r, r50, 710, lucas?

anyone want to chip in on the oil ?

Clearances being what they are. Have you considered that during steady state running the same amount of oil exists between the piston and cylinder and between the ball and race of each bearing regarfless of ratio(within reason)? Ever seen a oil migration time chart? How might the firat point impact your hairbrained thick oil theory?