661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[bwalker]

I'm done arguing theory or why this should work or whatever. Like I said before I don't care who is right.

I'm curious to test them all. I want my 661 running as best as it can. If H1R "inhibits combustion" then it should run way slower than these other guys.

You are done arguing theory? This is a good thing as you haven't a clue about theory and this is why your conclusions are garbage IE your thick oil theory...

 

[huskihl]

Boggles my mind how you guys are so hung up on this golden ratio...somehow all oils are created equal and must be run at 32:1.


"Going from a leaner oil ratio to a richer oil mixture just increases the amount of oil you are pumping into the combustion chamber. If you are running too rich you have excess oil that will just come in and go right out in the exhaust. It might also lower the power in the engine by just bogging the piston down with excess oil."


"When you are adding more oil to the mixture you are providing more oil to form the fluid film in the cylinder. That film does offer some resistance to the movement of the piston and could slow it down some. Remember, the main goal of the lubricant is to protect before anything else. It is protecting the surface but it will also impede the movement slightly because of its physical nature.

Now, when you are talking about rpms in the low thousands of larger engines, the difference will be small, but when you start reaching the high rpms of a wide open throttle in a small 2-stroke motor, the difference in engine speed can be more noticeable. Therefore, the saw is spinning just slightly slower and the cutting would take longer. This would also affect the temperature because as the engine is spinning slower, the fuel/oil mix is entering at a slower rate so there is less fuel and oil entering into the cylinder to cool the piston."


"Many other 2-stroke oils utilize light solvents as carriers in order to better dissolve them in the gasoline and carry the additives easier (some are up to 30% solvent). These light solvents do burn very easily and will attribute to the combustion. The H1-R is pure oil and does not have any solvents, this is one of the reasons H1-R can also sometimes be used at a leaner mix ratio than other oils as well."

I'm not hung up on any oil or ratio. I've run any oil I could find for the last 35 years until tcw3 came out. And I've used tcw3 exclusively since then in everything 2 stroke without failure of any sort. In the last week I've bought 2 different gallons (both fd rated) because of this thread. Open mind, son. Don't get hung up on one oil while you're doing these tests.
There's in excess of 500 years of combined experience posting in and reading this thread. And much of this experience includes dismantling 2 strokes and finding bearing failure and p/c scoring. Imo, and nearly everyone elses, the main reason for oem recommendations of 50:1 is because of the epa. I'm gonna hunt for an oil I can use at 32:1 without sacrificing any performance and stick with it.

I don't enjoy the bashing, but your thread is still informative. Really need to back off the bashing from both ends and keep learning

 

[KG441c]

Welcome to todays episode of Jerry Springer!!!

 

[porsche965]

And here all this time I've been reading that watercraft oil was bad on chainsaws. So much for that. Can't argue with success right?

 

[Effs]

That answer is right in the post!

Because maulhead's MM ported 661 got faster going from 32:1 H1R to 40:1 H1R.

After it was running 40:1 it was then equal to the other Mitch's ported 661...which was running 32:1 Ultra.

and you keep calling me the stupid one.

.been using h1r for over 10 years, in all my 2 stroke engines at 50/1. It's the best oil I have tried . My engines are spotless inside with no carbon buildup. No need to try anything different because I have.

 

[bwalker]

I'm not hung up on any oil or ratio. I've run any oil I could find for the last 35 years until tcw3 came out. And I've used tcw3 exclusively since then in everything 2 stroke without failure of any sort. In the last week I've bought 2 different gallons (both fd rated) because of this thread. Open mind, son. Don't get hung up on one oil while you're doing these tests.
There's in excess of 500 years of combined experience posting in and reading this thread. And much of this experience includes dismantling 2 strokes and finding bearing failure and p/c scoring. Imo, and nearly everyone elses, the main reason for oem recommendations of 50:1 is because of the epa. I'm gonna hunt for an oil I can use at 32:1 without sacrificing any performance and stick with it.

I don't enjoy the bashing, but your thread is still informative. Really need to back off the bashing from both ends and keep learning

Its impossible for a TCW3 oil to meet FD. Totaly different formulations.
Which oil are you using?

 

[bwalker]

.been using h1r for over 10 years, in all my 2 stroke engines at 50/1. It's the best oil I have tried . My engines are spotless inside with no carbon buildup. No need to try anything different because I have.

If your motors have zero carbon buildup something is wrong..ie your jetting is pig rich.
What other oils have you tried?

 

[huskihl]

Its impossible for a TCW3 oil to meet FD. Totaly different formulations.
Which oil are you using?

I used it for years. Still might. I know tcw3 doesn't meet fd. But I picked up some Lucas semi and quicksilver full synthetic. Quicksilver has zero odor at 32:1. Haven't tried Lucas yet.

 

[Andyshine77]

What I think is comical about this thread is if you go read the first 10 pages.....everyone worships the H1-R. 3,000 posts later......its garbage

Not everyone.[emoji6]

 

[huskihl]

Its impossible for a TCW3 oil to meet FD. Totaly different formulations.
Which oil are you using?

I reread my post and realize the confusion now. After learning that perhaps tcw3 isnt the ideal oil for a saw, i purchased a couple different fd rated oils to try

 

[huskihl]

And here all this time I've been reading that watercraft oil was bad on chainsaws. So much for that. Can't argue with success right?

If that's sarcasm, it is what it is. I know of a logger with a 385, 390, and 395 boneyard of about 15 total saws from 2003 to current, all run on super tech tcw3 from day 1. All were retired to parts saws because of broken plastic and castings. No oil or air failures.

But sure. I'll give some of this fancy oil a try. Why not

 

[KenJax Tree]

What 2 are you trying?

 

[huskihl]

And here all this time I've been reading that watercraft oil was bad on chainsaws. So much for that. Can't argue with success right?

I don't have the pic in front of me, but 10 or 15 years ago, jonsered oem 2 stroke oil was tcw3. If not for them damn japs we'd still be using it

 

[huskihl]

What 2 are you trying?

Quicksilver full synthetic and the same Lucas you use

 

[the GOAT]

If that's sarcasm, it is what it is. I know of a logger with a 385, 390, and 395 boneyard of about 15 total saws from 2003 to current, all run on super tech tcw3 from day 1. All were retired to parts saws because of broken plastic and castings. No oil or air failures.

But sure. I'll give some of this fancy oil a try. Why not

Royal purple HP 2c is the new name for what they used to call their tcw3... And they now say it's fine for chainsaws.

http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/products/hp-2c-2-cycle-engine-oil/

 

[porsche965]

If that's sarcasm, it is what it is. I know of a logger with a 385, 390, and 395 boneyard of about 15 total saws from 2003 to current, all run on super tech tcw3 from day 1. All were retired to parts saws because of broken plastic and castings. No oil or air failures.

But sure. I'll give some of this fancy oil a try. Why not

Not at all. Not meant to be. Most all the "Pros" on this site have always dissed TCW3 and went the way of boutique oils that's all. Something about watercraft oil is meant to run at cooler temps than chainsaws is what I've always read.

 

[RonL]

H1R is not necessarily "garbage" or "junk". It is being used here for a purpose that it was not engineered for. I suspect that it is at it's best in screaming twenty thousand RPM race engines running on exotic fuels.

Racing is a good way to develop and test theory and products for non racing. But the technology needs to relate to the purpose at hand.

They say that the space race and NASA developed technology that trickled down to every day use. However, I am never going to install a five million dollar vacuum toilet in my house. I am not using H1R in my chain saws. H1R does seem to be working well in the bullet lube I formulated.

The elephant in the room is the EPA. Equipment manufacturers developed products to meet EPA standards. They contracted with oil producers to develop oils that meet EPA standards. Oil producers develop "race" oils that provide maximum endurance and performance in "race" engines. Find a "race" oil that was developed to run in a "race" engine that has similar characteristics to your chain saw.

I still think it is valid to believe that more oil provides better ring sealing and more power. Providing the engine is properly tuned for it. I also think that it provides better bearing protection. I think that 32 to 1 has become the "magic" number because the general consensus is that is the point of diminishing returns. Unless it is an all out racing machine.

 

[blsnelling]

Now wait a minute. I'm missing something here. I thought Brad and MM were running 32:1 Bel Ray H1R in their ported saws. Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't H1R the oil everyone, well a lot of on this site were running before this thread started?

My recommendation has always been to run a full synthetic oil of your choice. I have never just recommended a certain brand exclusively.

omg. it wasn't the porter. it wasn't the oil. It was the amount of oil.

once maulhead's 661 started running 40:1 H1R even though I was still running 50:1 he was kicking my azz.

He may have even been kicking my azz if he simply went to 36:1 H1R.

For the last time H1R simply has more oil in the bottle than most others. When u dump it into the gas you actually have MORE oil in the gas then others. Need less H1R to do the same job as others.

It has nothing to do with the porters. Or the oil being "crap".

YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN THAT, NOT IN THE LEAST!!! Until you test some of these other high viscosity ester oils, you haven't begun to prove that. You're just as bent on H1-R as bwalker is on Yamalube, yet have little evidence to prove your point. Can you not see that?

How do you know it isn't the oil if you didn't compare other oils??

Exactly!!!

 

[RonL]

Going back to the original Ultralight testing showed that H1R provided clean burning and protection for the engine. It also showed that H1R used 15% more mix to produce the same amount of work. Other people that used H1R indicated that they had to open the carburetor jets to let the H1R mix run properly. There are other oils that provide the benefits of H1R without affecting the combustion efficiency.

I suspect that the combustion efficiency of H1R may push some of the auto tune carburetors outside of the range that they can compensate for.

 

[RonL]

I feel like a barn yard rat when I read some of these oil threads. You have to dig through a pile of **** to find the occasional seed.