Anyone ever needed a electric draft inducer?

[scut207]

Long story short, I have a Jotul insert, and everytime I try to lite it I fill the house with smoke.

Ive had the chimney checked by a pro.

I had the chimney top rebuilt and added 11 courses of brick.

I try to preheat the chimney with a propane torch weed burner.

Still have back draft issues like crazy.

My wife has asthma, is straight up allergic to about everything, does not help.

 

[moresnow]

Have patience with this post No guarantee answering the following questions will ensure success. However, it's tough to cipher anything without knowing all the details. Hopefully something pops up to someone. For your wife's wellbeing.

What model is the stove?
Is this a basement install by chance?
What is the vent length from collar to cap?
Can you post pics of the install and chimney including outdoor termination?

How are you venting the stove?
Old school slammer by chance?
Direct connect followed by clay liner?
Full correct diameter stainless liner from collar to cap? Best option.
Is the insert the only connected appliance?

Are there any other indoor appliances competing for available combustion air? Forced air furnace, clothes dryer, any indoor fans (bath/stove top) venting outdoors, radon mitigation system, HRV/ERV home system? etc.

 

[vtfireman85]

Have installed a chimney top draft inducer in a house with a marble fireplace surround, they wanted no chance of sooting. Retrospectively I would love to go back and reverse the fan.. but i digress.
I had a similar issue with a chimney with a liner. Short term solution was to pack around the liner at the top with fiberglass mat like you might see in a furnace or in my case a syrup evaporator, then sealing it with high temp silicone, worked marvelously.
Long and short, if you have any air leakage around the chimney liner or flue tile you will have draft issues. A leaky clean out door can be just as big an issue.

 

[rambo2_981]

Long story short, I have a Jotul insert, and everytime I try to lite it I fill the house with smoke.

Ive had the chimney checked by a pro.

I had the chimney top rebuilt and added 11 courses of brick.

I try to preheat the chimney with a propane torch weed burner.

Still have back draft issues like crazy.

My wife has asthma, is straight up allergic to about everything, does not help.

Do you have a stainless steel chimney liner, and if so is it insulated? An insulated liner would help the flue heat up quicker. Once in a while we have backdraft and smoke when a fire is started on a cold morning. For that reason we bought an Oransi HEPA filter, which works well. That might help you wife’s asthma.

 

[scut207]

The stove is a jotul 550 Rockland

I live in a 60's split level, the insert is below ground level but not in " the basement" if that makes sense.

It is a SS pipe, unsure the diameter, likely not insulated.

gotta be a good 30' from top to bottom

the chimney full brick from top to bottom is on the outside North wall of the house that will never ever get sun. 11 new courses and a new cap was put on 1.5 years ago.

It works fine once it gets going, but its damn near impossible to get going.

vent is from internal air using the slider on the front.

 

[rambo2_981]

The stove is a jotul 550 Rockland

I live in a 60's split level, the insert is below ground level but not in " the basement" if that makes sense.

It is a SS pipe, unsure the diameter, likely not insulated.

gotta be a good 30' from top to bottom

the chimney full brick from top to bottom is on the outside North wall of the house that will never ever get sun. 11 new courses and a new cap was put on 1.5 years ago.

It works fine once it gets going, but its damn near impossible to get going.

vent is from internal air using the slider on the front.

Ours is a Quadrafire 5100i (about 14 years old). Have you thought about a cap flue fan like the following, which I know nothing about?

https://gemimarket.us/chimney-fan/70-Fireplace-Fan-flue-fan-8053017260167.html

 

[scut207]

Ours is a Quadrafire 5100i (about 14 years old). Have you thought about a cap flue fan like the following, which I know nothing about?

https://gemimarket.us/chimney-fan/70-Fireplace-Fan-flue-fan-8053017260167.html

That one is exactly what I was thinking/asking about.

Theres a us based company, but they want 5k for a similar model. I want to support US makers, but it would need to sprinkle gold dust on the lawn upon activation for that price.

 

[moresnow]

The stove is a jotul 550 Rockland

I live in a 60's split level, the insert is below ground level but not in " the basement" if that makes sense.

It is a SS pipe, unsure the diameter, likely not insulated.

gotta be a good 30' from top to bottom

the chimney full brick from top to bottom is on the outside North wall of the house that will never ever get sun. 11 new courses and a new cap was put on 1.5 years ago.

It works fine once it gets going, but its damn near impossible to get going.

vent is from internal air using the slider on the front.

Have you been up top and checked your existing cap for blockage lately? It ends up being a regular issue for many that results in this problem. Almost have to get up top for a close look. Some have had this occur within a couple weeks. Usually happens if there is a spark arresting screen included in the cap. Worth a peek if you can get topside.

30' should theoretically provide way plenty of pipe. When the 11 new courses were added was the stainless liner extended? Did the stainless liner even go to the top to begin with?

Have you tried cracking open the nearest window or door when starting the stove?

Should verify you have a full stainless liner and what diameter it is. As mentioned being insulated is the best. And also most likely should be insulated per code/safety.

 

[Del_]

We heat with a Jotul F600CB and if the wood stove has not been run for several days in the early fall or late spring we sometimes have a problem with smoke entering the room when trying to light a cold stove and a cold chimney. We have a 15 foot tall Selkirk six inch diameter Metalbestos double walled insulated chimney.

Zero problems if the wood stove or chimney has retained even the smallest amount of heat since the last firing.
Our wood stove is on the first floor of our two story house so likely we are seeing some house chimney effect fight the wood stove chimney draft.

So in the fall this year we may have had a smoke problem lighting the cold wood stove and chimney maybe three or four times. We can accurately predict these times.

===============

Here's the workaround that I've been using for years.

I have a piece of cardboard with a round hole in it to insert a 120v. heat gun. The cardboard covers the wood stove door opening.

Load the stove with large pieces with smaller kindling on top all ready to light. The 'Top Down fire starting system'.

Place the cardboard and heat gun in the wood stove door opening and run it for about one minute forcing warm air into the wood stove and up the chimney.

Remove the cardboard and heat gun and light off the wood stove.

Zero smoke in the house. Works every time.

Used maybe 4 times in the fall and a couple of times each spring.

Our draft inducer:

 

[Yarz]

the chimney full brick from top to bottom is on the outside North wall of the house that will never ever get sun. 11 new courses and a new cap was put on 1.5 years ago.

Do you have access to a cleanout?

I have a backdraft issue too when the stove is cold, and I've found that lighting some paper in my cleanout solves it for me. The heat has the most direct path upward so it starts the draft easier than lighting paper in the fire box, where it has to go through 3 90's before it is going purely vertically.

 

[ElevatorGuy]

I throw a few sheets of newspaper in mine before I light the real fire. House is tight, had to open a window or the back door for the wood fireplace. The wood stove works great with the newspaper. That stove have a bypass damper for the cat?

 

[lwmibc]

Think about it for a minute--if there's a backdraft through the chimney, what can generate it?--what is generating a positive pressure at the top of the chimney to drive outside air down, or a negative pressure at the stove to suck it down? Wind outside is one possible reason, but that can be checked with either no wind or with a chimney-top deflector that eliminates the possibility.

If that backdraft still persists, it possibly--probably--means there is another 'chimney effect' in the house that causes the backdraft through the easy return path; somewhere warm air is escaping through a leak high up in the house for which make-up air comes down through the chimney. Find and seal that leak if possible so that the chimney itself provides the best chimney effect in the house, and the stove will work.

A stove installed low in a house, like in a basement, often causes down-chimney drafts for just that reason; there is a greater chimney effect of the warm air rising to high parts of the ceiling peak and leaking out. Most wood burning sites on internet do not recommend installing stoves in basements for that reason.

Certainly worth an investigation.

BTW I like the heat gun trick; if the problem can't be solved by sealing roof leaks that's a cute no-smoke solution.

 

[vizette]

I throw a few sheets of newspaper in mine before I light the real fire. House is tight, had to open a window or the back door for the wood fireplace. The wood stove works great with the newspaper. That stove have a bypass damper for the cat?

This. Although I've had that smoke itself out/backdraft on me if I don't open a window, depending on conditions. I can't speak to Jotul specifically but I've had my Regency backdraft more times than I care to admit. What I've learned (and not backdrafted since):

• If you can feel cold air coming in the stove when you open the door, you're going to backdraft if you don't resolve that
• opening a window in the same room 100% helps, the first thing I do above all else - in the room is important, i can leave a door wide open elsewhere in the house and it won't help as much as opening the window in the same room
• start with something that burns fast at first to heat up the pipes, like newspaper (I use shreds from my paper shredder)
• I've used a propane torch (which I then use to light the fire) to shoot some heat up the pipe initially
• I've used an old hairdryer to heat it up at times similar to the heat gun above, set it in there and close the door on the cord - obviously not a hairdryer you'd ever want to use on a person again, sorta helps, not as much as the above points
• if you have a lot of exhaust vents (kitchen, bathroom, clothes dryer, etc) running, that can cause a low pressure in the house and it tries to pull air in wherever it can (e.g. woodstove)
• weather changes can cause this too, refer to the first couple bullet points

 

[esshup]

I 2nd the comment about checking the chimney cap and spark arrestor for clogging. When was the last time you had the chimney flue cleaned? If I open the door on my Quadrafire and smoke comes in the house, I know it's time to clean the spark arrestor. I can get a ladder up there, take the cap/arrestor off the top of the chimney and look down. Rarely have I needed to brush out the chimney itself, it's always the spark arrestor that gets plugged up first.

 

[Smitty Smithsonite]

Lots of people run draft inducers. My buddy in New Jersey runs one for his coal boiler. It's an EFM350 - the little brother to the EFM520 I have. Auger fed stoker boiler. He's got an exterior chimney on an old farmhouse. Whenever the temp goes above 45°, he loses draft and the fire goes out. Needed to install a draft inducer, wired to some electronics so that it comes on with the regular heat call, and the timer burn (to keep the fire lit on warmer days). Easy install. They're a bit pricey is all, and you get what you pay for. Stick with name brand motors for more trouble free operation.

 

[Yarz]

The heat gun through a blocking panel is a good idea.
I didn't use the cardboard, just stuffed the heat gun into the flue, held in place with the bypass plate. My back draft is strong enough to blow the heat back into the gun, and now have some melted plastic on my heat gun.

 

[vtfireman85]

Has anyone considered one of these?
https://hvacsolutionsdirect.com/cat...OLLAR-Wood-Stove-Chimney-Draft-Inducer-SKU752

 

[Del_]

BTW I like the heat gun trick; if the problem can't be solved by sealing roof leaks that's a cute no-smoke solution.

I don't believe we have roof leaks. At least not many. It's the big temperature change that catches up by surprise.

In our case our house has an L shaped footprint with the wood stove in the single story section. The two story section of the house likely has some chimney effect going. When we got home this morning the house was at 61°F and the outside temperature was 68°F. This unseasonably warm day creates the perfect condition for getting a chimney downdraft. Here is north easy Georgia we had a big storm front roll through from about 4PM to 6 PM.

We fired up the stove after getting home about 1PM and used the head gun with blocking plate for about two minutes.

I don't ever remember using the heat gun in January, but today was unusual.

Worked like a charm.

 

[tla100]

How high is chimney above peak? Trees near house taller than chimney? I Have had it a few times year. I have fresh air pipes to back of stove. Crack a window, weed burner, and about 2-5 minutes usually will start to draft. Had a foggy still day few days ago and it was a few minutes to draft

 

[scut207]

Thank you all for the replies:

More on the state of the house

• I sealed the entire upper plates (basically ripped up the insulation rolls and filled the cracks with great stuff) in both sections of the "attic" for both interior and exterior walls
• I added soffit vents along the entire perimeter before there were only two input Vents coming in from below the peaks coming in the the exterior wall and 3-4 output vents per peak on the roof
• I put the rolled insulation back where it was
• I blew in about 12-18" of extra treated cellulose brining the roof insulation to some ridiculous R-Level

The prior fireplace in 2009 was a hearth style stove that sat in front of the traditional fireplace built into the brick. It too had this issue

• To install the jotul I had to use an vertical offset
• There was to my knowledge never any sort of damper (chimney block?) or it was removed when the prior owner installed the hearth stove
• The line is SS
• This too had the smoke back issue when starting but quickly overcame it with a window open

After installing the insert the problem became more severe so we extended the current chimney and liner by 11 courses of brick which I thought by raising the chimney exit would allow for a better draft. Last I lit it, It does work "ok" once you get it going with no backdraft but getting to the point will cause the entire house to fill with smoke setting off every damn alarm in the house even with a window open on the bottom floor. However it seems that for some reason that the backdraft or thermal barrier in the chimney is extremely difficult to over come on start.

My wife has asthma and this is a huge source of contention.

Here are some diagrams that may help




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