Best way to handle this big Oak

[oldirty]

dont mind him, he's a truck driver.

 

[Bspring]

:agree2:

It is hard to tell, but the other trees in this group look stressed also. It is so sad when people do not understand the importance of protection for trees they desire to save during construction. There is much more to saving a tree than simply not cutting it down.

Estimates are free. An arborist on site should be able to tell you exactly what is going on. Pictures only tell us part of the story and many times there are subtleties that we may miss that will be obvious to an experienced professional onsite.

Sylvia

Since I don't think an arborist would be able to talk me into paying to have the tree taken down I would not feel right having them come out for a free estimate. When I ask a question on this sight many others can learn from the answers so that is a bennifit to more than just myself.

I am very instrested in saving the other trees and I have payed to have someone out to look at stressed trees at my last house and unlike the tree service I was not impressed with their recomendations. I would be willing to pay to save the other trees but from my past experiance I don't see what anyone could tell me other than water and fertilizer. However, I am much more open minded to this aspect than paying to have the tree cut. So am I correct that it would not be right to bring someone out under these circimstances?

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

drop the oak

Get a 120ft pull/bull rope and one good pulley. Redirect the rope through pulley. Pulley attached to adjacent tree in direction drop zone.
Attach about 3/4 way up in oak with running bowline. Through pulley then to large pull vehichle. V-cut, finish cut and pull.

 

[Rftreeman]

put a ekka side rope on it and let er ripe..............

 

[Glennak]

Since I don't think an arborist would be able to talk me into paying to have the tree taken down I would not feel right having them come out for a free estimate. When I ask a question on this sight many others can learn from the answers so that is a bennifit to more than just myself.

I am very instrested in saving the other trees and I have payed to have someone out to look at stressed trees at my last house and unlike the tree service I was not impressed with their recomendations. I would be willing to pay to save the other trees but from my past experiance I don't see what anyone could tell me other than water and fertilizer. However, I am much more open minded to this aspect than paying to have the tree cut. So am I correct that it would not be right to bring someone out under these circimstances?

You could have got some information on how to put in your driveway with out killing the tree, or even better been told how close you could come to the trees, before you built, so you would know where to build or which trees had to go before you started and much much more.

 

[treeseer]

I am very instrested in saving the other trees

Better late than never.

Check Mature Tree Care, Proper Mulching, and other info in the link below.

"I am much more open minded to this aspect than paying to have the tree cut. "

You have to admit this is not saying a heck of a lot. An arborist on site can help undo the construction damage that your contractors needlessly caused.

 

[S Mc]

Since I don't think an arborist would be able to talk me into paying to have the tree taken down I would not feel right having them come out for a free estimate. When I ask a question on this sight many others can learn from the answers so that is a bennifit to more than just myself.

I am very instrested in saving the other trees and I have payed to have someone out to look at stressed trees at my last house and unlike the tree service I was not impressed with their recomendations. I would be willing to pay to save the other trees but from my past experiance I don't see what anyone could tell me other than water and fertilizer. However, I am much more open minded to this aspect than paying to have the tree cut. So am I correct that it would not be right to bring someone out under these circimstances?

Bspring, I agree that questions asked on these forums can help many people and so applaud that. But our answers should try to not only be helpful but realistic, as accurate as possible given the inevitable lack of complete details. This sometimes may not be what the original poster wants to hear.

Trees may be stressed for a variety of reasons. But in construction damage, the primary concerns would be how much did you compact the root zone? was the grade changed? And something that is easily overlooked is the very likely possibility of the building of the house and all the digging for the foundation etc changed the underground water access in ways you have no way of knowing. These are just a few of the factors that can and will effect the remaining trees. I see grass under these trees, but cannot tell how close it was put in. Was this put in to cover construction damaged land? Mulching will help re-aerate the ground as opposed to turf which will be in constant competition.

Some trees will tolerate construction abuse better than others. Some will die within a year, others linger for awhile, and still others may survive for the long haul. Whereas I am not sure about willow oak, many oaks are very unforgiving of root damage. It is very difficult to come in after the fact and correct the damage. And in fact, depending on the extent of the damage, may not be possible to mitigate.

So sometimes the only answers are to mulch, irrigate correctly and wait and see. (I'm not a fan of fertilizing stressed trees.)

Sylvia

 

[treeseer]

So sometimes the only answers are to mulch, irrigate correctly and wait and see. (I'm not a fan of fertilizing stressed trees.)

Sylvia

I'm not a big fan of wait and see. If the owner cares enough to invest resources then a lot more can be done.

Treatment of Trees Damaged By Construction

The processes involved with construction can be devastating to the surrounding trees if no measures have been taken to protect them. The visible injuries such as broken branches and wounds to tree trunks are only the beginning. It is the damage to the root systems that often result in tree loss.

In an ideal situation, an arborist is called in to consult in the planning stages of construction. Trees can be preserved if the appropriate measures are taken soon enough. Unfortunately, it is usually when the first signs of decline appear that help is sought.

There are some remedial treatments that may save some construction-damaged trees, but immediate implementation is critical. If you have trees that have been affected by recent construction, consult a professional arborist promptly. Your arborist can assess each tree for viability and potential hazards, and recommend treatments.

Damage Caused By Construction

* physical injury to the trunk and crown
* soil compaction in the root zone
* severing of roots
* smothering roots by adding soil
* split and broken branches
* new exposure to wind and sunlight

Inspection and Assessment

Because construction damage can affect the structure and stability of a tree, your arborist should check for potential hazards. A hazard check may involve a simple visual inspection, or instruments may be used to check for the presence of decay. If a hazard is found, sometimes it can be reduced or eliminated by removing an unsafe limb, pruning to reduce weight, or installing cables or braces to provide structural support.

Treating Trunk and Crown Injuries


Cabling and Bracing

Trees growing in wooded areas are usually not a threat to people or structures. Trees that are close to houses or other buildings must be maintained to keep them structurally sound. If branches or tree trunks need additional support, a professional arborist may be able to install cables or bracing rods. If cables or braces are installed, they must be inspected regularly. The amount of added security offered by the installation of support hardware is limited. Not all weak limbs are candidates for these measures.

Repairing Damaged Bark and Trunk Wounds

Often the bark may be damaged along the trunk or major limbs. If that happens, remove the loose bark. Jagged edges can be cut away with a sharp knife. Take care not to cut into living tissues.


Irrigation and Drainage

One of the most important tree maintenance procedures following construction damage is to maintain an adequate, but not excessive, supply of water to the root zone. If there is a drainage problem, the trees will decline rapidly. Improper drainage must be corrected if the trees are to be saved. If soil drainage is good, be sure to keep the trees well watered, especially during the dry summer months. A long, slow soak over the entire root zone is the preferred method of watering. Keep the top 12 inches moist, but avoid overwatering. Avoid frequent, shallow watering. Make sure surface water drains away from the tree. Proper irrigation may do more to help trees recover from construction stress than anything else you could do.

Mulching

One of the simplest and least expensive things you can do for your trees may also be one of the most effective. Applying a 2- to 4-inch layer of organic mulch such as wood chips, shredded bark, or pine needles over the root system of a tree can enhance root growth. The mulch helps condition the soil, moderates soil temperatures, maintains moisture, and reduces competition from weeds and grass. The mulch should extend as far out from the tree as practical for the landscape site. (If the tree had a say, its entire root system would be mulched.) Do not apply the mulch any deeper than 4 inches, and do not pile it against the trunk.

Improving Aeration of the Root Zone

Drilling Holes/Vertical Mulching

Compaction of the soil and increases in grade both have the effect of depleting the oxygen supply to tree roots. If soil aeration can be improved, root growth and water uptake can be enhanced.

A common method of aeration of the root zone involves drilling holes in the ground. Holes are usually 2 to 4 inches in diameter and are made about 3 feet on center throughout the root zone of the tree. The depth should be at least 12 inches but may need to be deeper if the soil grade has been raised. Sometimes the holes are filled with peat moss, wood chips, pea gravel, or other materials that maintain aeration and support root growth. This process is called vertical mulching.

Radial Aeration

More recent research has shown promising results with another method of aeration called radial aeration. Narrow trenches are cut with a compressed air gun in a radial pattern throughout the root zone. These trenches appear similar to the spokes of a wagon wheel. It is important to begin the trenches 4 to 8 feet from the trunk of the tree to avoid cutting any major support roots. The trenches should extend at least as far as the drip line of the tree. If the primary goal is to reduce compaction, the trenches should be about 8 to 12 inches in depth. They may need to be deeper if the soil grade has been raised.

The narrow trenches can be backfilled with topsoil or compost. Root growth will be greater in the trenched area than in the surrounding soil. This treatment can give a tree the added boost it needs to adapt to the compacted soil or new grade.

Vertical mulching and radial trenching are techniques that may improve conditions for root growth. If construction-damaged trees are to survive the injuries and stresses they have suffered, they must replace the roots that have been lost.

What About Fertilization?

Most experts recommend that you do not fertilize your trees the first year after construction damage. Water and mineral uptake may be reduced because of root damage. Excessive soil salts can draw water out of the roots and into the soil. In addition, nitrogen fertilization may stimulate top growth at the expense of root growth. It is a common misconception that applying fertilizer gives a stressed tree a much-needed shot in the arm. Fertilization should be based on the nutritional needs of trees on a site. Soils can be analyzed to determine whether any of the essential minerals are deficient. If soil nutrients are deficient, supplemental fertilization may be indicated. It is advisable to keep application rates low until the root system has had time to adjust.

Monitoring for Decline and Hazards

Despite your best efforts, you may lose some trees from the construction damage. Symptoms of decline include smaller and fewer leaves, dieback in the crown of the tree, and premature fall color. If a tree dies as a result of root damage, it may be an immediate hazard and should be removed right away. Examine your trees for signs of possible hazards. Look for cracks in the trunk, split or broken branches, and dead limbs. Watch for indications of internal decay such as cavities, carpenter ants, soft wood, and mushroomlike structures growing on the trunk, root crown, or along the major roots. If you detect any defects or suspect decay, consult an arborist for a professional assessment. It is prudent to have your trees evaluated periodically by a professional. You should also inspect your trees for signs of insects or diseases. Stressed trees are more prone to attack by certain pests. Talk to your arborist about putting your trees on a program of Plant Health Care (PHC). Such a program may help identify and treat problems before they become a threat to the life of your trees.

 

[Glennak]

[
Repairing Damaged Bark and Trunk Wounds

Often the bark may be damaged along the trunk or major limbs. If that happens, remove the loose bark. Jagged edges can be cut away with a sharp knife. Take care not to cut into living tissues.

I agree with most of what you said (and don't want to offend) but the above is crap from the 60's and earlier like removing branches flush to trunk and cutting oliptical holes in the bark; all bad practice.
The tree will try and grow new cambium on the existing xylem (even on the phloem if it is kept moist) the last thing it needs is some good-doer with a shart knife making the wound the correct shape.
I have tied damaged bark back on branches and covered with black plastic to keep it warm and moist and very often the bark grafts; if not at least the xylem is kept alive so new phloem can form. What's wrong with jagged edges?
I saw a local sreet tree hit by a car and about 3' of bark removed all the way around, but only a small amount of wood damaged. Rather than just putting it back on it was carted away. The tree was forming blisters of new cells all over the wood; after a few weeks there was the first connection to feed the roots. But some qualified bozo from the council come out and removed the jagged edges and damaged some xylem and destroyed the bridge and any chance of the trees servival. The tree tried again by shooting from below the brake. I stopped on day and decided I would give it another few days before I did a bridge graft but out he came again and removed the suckers so the tree was removed.
I'm sure you are not recommending this sort of treatment but this is dangerous advice to give people with out extensive tree knowledge

What About Fertilization?

Most experts recommend that you do not fertilize your trees the first year after construction damage. Water and mineral uptake may be reduced because of root damage. Excessive soil salts can draw water out of the roots and into the soil. In addition, nitrogen fertilization may stimulate top growth at the expense of root growth. It is a common misconception that applying fertilizer gives a stressed tree a much-needed shot in the arm. Fertilization should be based on the nutritional needs of trees on a site. Soils can be analyzed to determine whether any of the essential minerals are deficient. If soil nutrients are deficient, supplemental fertilization may be indicated. It is advisable to keep application rates low until the root system has had time to adjust.

/QUOTE]
Sure it is theoretically possible to dehydrate a tree by adding salts to the soil and perhaps large amounts of artificial fertilizer could do this. But really if a tree has had major root damage it needs to grow lots of new root hairs and grow lots of new Mycorrhizal fungi and it has been shown that sea weed fertizers promote this. I add them in low levels with several aplications.

 

[Glennak]

[
Repairing Damaged Bark and Trunk Wounds

"Often the bark may be damaged along the trunk or major limbs. If that happens, remove the loose bark. Jagged edges can be cut away with a sharp knife. Take care not to cut into living tissues."

I agree with most of what you said (and don't want to offend) but the above is crap from the 60's and earlier like removing branches flush to trunk and cutting oliptical holes in the bark; all bad practice.
The tree will try and grow new cambium on the existing xylem (even on the phloem if it is kept moist) the last thing it needs is some good-doer with a shart knife making the wound the correct shape.
I have tied damaged bark back on branches and covered with black plastic to keep it warm and moist and very often the bark grafts; if not at least the xylem is kept alive so new phloem can form. What's wrong with jagged edges?
I saw a local sreet tree hit by a car and about 3' of bark removed all the way around, but only a small amount of wood damaged. Rather than just putting it back on it was carted away. The tree was forming blisters of new cells all over the wood; after a few weeks there was the first connection to feed the roots. But some qualified bozo from the council come out and removed the jagged edges and damaged some xylem and destroyed the bridge and any chance of the trees servival. The tree tried again by shooting from below the brake. I stopped on day and decided I would give it another few days before I did a bridge graft but out he came again and removed the suckers so the tree was removed.
I'm sure you are not recommending this sort of treatment but this is dangerous advice to give people with out extensive tree knowledge

"What About Fertilization?

Most experts recommend that you do not fertilize your trees the first year after construction damage. Water and mineral uptake may be reduced because of root damage. Excessive soil salts can draw water out of the roots and into the soil. In addition, nitrogen fertilization may stimulate top growth at the expense of root growth. It is a common misconception that applying fertilizer gives a stressed tree a much-needed shot in the arm. Fertilization should be based on the nutritional needs of trees on a site. Soils can be analyzed to determine whether any of the essential minerals are deficient. If soil nutrients are deficient, supplemental fertilization may be indicated. It is advisable to keep application rates low until the root system has had time to adjust."/QUOTE]


Sure it is theoretically possible to dehydrate a tree by adding salts to the soil and perhaps large amounts of artificial fertilizer could do this. But really if a tree has had major root damage it needs to grow lots of new root hairs and grow lots of new Mycorrhizal fungi and it has been shown that sea weed fertizers promote this. I add them in low levels with several aplications.

 

[Nosmo]

Qualified Personal Inspection

I hope you can save that tree. Is it possible for you to have a qualified person give you an opinion after personally inspecting what he/she believes is best -- removal or a treatment.

Nosmo

 

[oregoncutter]

How much do You want to risk?

My advice would be to get a professional to take care of it, definitely leans toward You're house. I know that may not be feasable for You. I would hate to give information to someone that may cause damge to them or their property, but in my opinion I agree with most of these guys climbing it and cutting sections would be best. However I have been called in to Yarder logging jobs before where the fallers have left trees at the edges of clearcuts near power lines and other expensive or dangerous obstacles. I have used this method with pull from yarders, cats, and even trucks depending on the situation. I would take and hang a block in the nearest tree to the left in Your'e first picture, for strength you could use a tree behind it as a guyline (if neither is rotten or has poor roots) take some good 7/16 to 1/2 haywire ( I don't know the eastern term) ( High break strength stel cable we use here) run it through the block and attach it about 20ft up that tree You want to cut. Hook the other end of the haywire to You're front end loader, and pull ahead taking up slack, but not adding any tension to the tree just yet. (Make sure You have enough cable that the tree won't hit the loader when it comes down) I would go ahead and face that tree like You want it to fall at a 45degree angle from the house. I would go with just an open notch face, as for a back cut I would probably go no more than a 3rd of the diameter or 1/2 of the 2/3rds you should have at this point( leave some holding wood) get clear and have someone pull the loader ahead steadily until the trees on the ground. This is risky and it looks like you run a good chance of getting that tree hungup regardless of how You fall it. My advice is think it through, be safe, and when in doubt let a pro do it, Your'e lifes worth more than property or money, and inexperienced people tackling jobs in the timber or arborist industry without immediate experienced guidance can be a recipe for disaster.
GOOD LUCK!!

 

[oregoncutter]

Another point

There are alot of factors just with the condition of the trees themselves that might change my entire approach, it's hard to know the whole story without being there.

 

[duanemckin]

this is my firdt post/but i whole hearaly aree on leting a competant arborist look at it fo you.my thought is very easy climb and chunk down or a throw bag with a 100' rope and pull it over very easy. good luck! drano

 

[Bspring]

Okay, you guys have sold me on the idea of calling someone out to save the other trees. I will tell them to charge me a consulting fee because I plan to cut the dead tree but want input on the health of the other trees.

 

[fredmc]

That tree can be directional felled with a rope and a wedge. Plain and simple no need to "over engineer".

 

[oregoncutter]

You're right

:agree2: No need to overengineer, I think it could be fell safely, and accurately without any rope or extra equipment, but I have no idea of his skill level with a saw, reading trees or using wedges, so I gave the most foolproof way I know of to safely bring it down. Hey maybe the arborist that's coming out can help him.

 

[fredmc]

:agree2: No need to overengineer, I think it could be fell safely, and accurately without any rope or extra equipment, but I have no idea of his skill level with a saw, reading trees or using wedges, so I gave the most foolproof way I know of to safely bring it down. Hey maybe the arborist that's coming out can help him.

 

[Nosmo]

Outside Opinion

Okay, you guys have sold me on the idea of calling someone out to save the other trees. I will tell them to charge me a consulting fee because I plan to cut the dead tree but want input on the health of the other trees.

Let us know what the opinion is -- save the other trees or ?

Nosmo

 

[Nailsbeats]

Cut that pig yet or are you still biting your nails? Bring er' down and remember, take chances.