Bow for Stihl - chain length?

[wagonwheeler]

Talking w/ a landscaper that rents a shop next to mine at lunch and the short of it is he gave me a bow he used to run on his 028 for firewood cutting. I beleive it's .063 but gotta check that. What's the method for determining link count for it? Measure in inches and divide by some factor depending on pitch?

My 361 is running a 3/8 sprocket and .050 bars (if that matters). I'd like to call my dealer and tell him what DL chain I need since they frown on bows there - the plantation guys pull thier bows off before taking their powerheads in...

I'll call him in the meantime, but am still curious about determining DL count.

Also gotta fab up some guards since this bow only has the foot - guards are long gone.

Chaser

(I wonder what happens at post 100...let's see...)

 

[MikeInParadise]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a chainsaw Bow?

and what does one look like?

 

[458_lott]

wagonwheeler,

I am not sure how long the chain is, but I doubt that the gauge is .063. It might be, but all my Homelite bows and Poulan bows are .050 except the Wiz that runs half inch chain. Make sure you get the top and bottom chain guard as the bottom of the bow can bite your thigh pretty quickly if you are not careful and the chain runs really close to your face on the top of the bow. Bailey's sells bows for a number of Stihl and Husky saws. They may sell the guards separately. I have run bows on my saws for 30 some years. They cut through downed wood so easily (no pinching) as the wood just pinches the open part of the bow. I can usuallly buck-up two cords of wood in the same time it taks others to buck-up one cord. No bending over and no pinching. They are great, but please be careful. Things happen really fast if the bumper spikes slip.

 

[twistedtree]

What's the advantage of a bow bar? What does it do that a narrow bar can't?

 

[superman_36]

save your back if you use it right

 

[joed1694]

doesn't get pinched if you use it right

 

[458_lott]

A bow is sort-of pear shaped. the flat part (bottom of the pear) is what you cut with. As you are cutting, the limb, trunk, etc. folds back on the cut, but the bow is open, so the wood folds back into the open part of the bow. You just keep on a cuttin'. You cut with the front part of the bow so the saw is at about a 80 degree angle. You don't need to bend over. You just walk down the tree and keep cuttin. People in my neck of the woods don't really know what they are. I used them exclusively in Delaware when I was cutting pulp wood, etc. You can cut about twice as fast as with a conventional bar. You don't need to bend over and you don't need wedges, or log-lifting device.

 

[wagonwheeler]

wagonwheeler,

I am not sure how long the chain is, but I doubt that the gauge is .063. It might be, but all my Homelite bows and Poulan bows are .050 except the Wiz that runs half inch chain.

They are great, but please be careful. Things happen really fast if the bumper spikes slip.

Thanks 458,

A close friend (like a big brother) cut firewood for cash 25 years ago or so and all he used was old Poulans w/ bows. I helped him recently and he pulled out one of the old Poulans. I've been wanting to get a bow bar but don't need one and couldn't see ponying up for a new one. This'll work out pretty good I hope.

Landscaper bought it on his 028 and it's still got orange paint on it, but no Stihl embossings just a stamped part number. Did Stihl make bows?

I do hope it's a .050. I can fab some guards pretty easy outta some galvanized sheet I've got.

I may actually run a green RM chain on it just to be on the safe side.

Chaser

 

[458_lott]

Yes, Stihl made bows. You will not get any saw manufacturer to sell you a bow now. The bow was invented by Claude Poulan back in LA. for the purpose of cutting pulp wood. You see a lot of Poulans with bows on them in the south. I ran them forever. There is nothing like one. They are dangerous (kickback like hell if you are not extremely careful setting the bumper spikes), but I make fools out of firewood cutters around here. I use a Super Wiz 66 with a 16" bow (cutting surface is 16"). With that gear driven saw, I just cut the crap out of things. If I have smaller stuff to buck-up, I use a Poulan 3700 with a 14" bow. As I said, Bailey's still sell bows and brush bars for that matter. They are listed at $119. Extremely fair price as they were always close to $100 if my memory serves me correctly. That includes top and bottom guard and the bumper spikes.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Yes, Stihl made bows. You will not get any saw manufacturer to sell you a bow now. The bow was invented by Claude Poulan back in LA. for the purpose of cutting pulp wood. You see a lot of Poulans with bows on them in the south.

I remember looking at the Poulan bow saws at the saw shop years ago on display with them. Made the same powerheads w/ bars look goofy. (I had a crappy moped w/ a McCullough engine that made me a regular customer at the saw shop).

All the pulpwood trucks here had Poulans w/ bows. Weird not to see them now. Which is another reason I gotta have one.

Think I'll get some Stihl orange paint and get this bow looking right!

On another note: Got 3 more days of whitetail season...been taking the iron sighted 45-70 along lately...Not nearly a 458, but still a nice hunk o lead...and a nice change from taking the last one w/ a 44mag S&W 29.

Chaser

Chaser

 

[458_lott]

Get that bow fired-up. You will be the rage. Young sawyers will look at you as though you came from Mars and old timers like myself will just give you that approving smile like "there's a guy who knows what he is doing". Bows take the work out of bucking up wood. Cutting pulp wood all day when the actual temp is 90 degrees and the sensible temp is like 105 will wilt a weak man in a hurry. The bow made the work as easy as it could be made. Get that one going and I promise you, you will never look back. By the way, the Lott, Rigby, Gibbs are for Africa. I too carry a .45-70 Marlin Guide Gun (the older model with ported barrel) when in the thick jest. For grins, I also take a .444 Marlin once in a while. LEAVE A BIG HOLE! That is important when you don't want the meat all stinky with flowing adrenalin from a running, wounded deer. They need to drop in their tracks.

 

[Diesel JD]

I don't know if the Texas Bows that Baileys sells are the same DL count as the OEM stihl ones but they list the DL counts on their website. For the 14" bow its 86 DL of 3/8 or 78DL of .404. I think the 14" is .050 gauge and the 16" is .063 and again this may not apply to an OEM bow. I too want to get one for my MS390 before they are banned. Don't run it without the guards and the safety chain will NOT significantly reduce bow kickback according to Stihl.

 

[458_lott]

Diesel,

You are right on all counts I think. That sounds about right for the number of drive links. You are right about the gauges also. Again, ditto with the safety chain. It will not stop a bow from kicking back. When you run one, you must place the bumper spikes on the downside of the wood to be cut and make sure they stay there. If they rise out, that saw is coming back at your face extremely quickly. I never ran a bow with a chain brake and I still don't, but I am always conscious about what I am doing when I use a chainsaw. Daydream once and it could be your last dream. Bows can be dangerous. Things happen faster with them, but get a firm grip on the saw and watch where you place the bumpers. I too want to get a MS-390 and stick a bow on it and I want to do it in a hurry. The wallet is hurting a bit 'cause I just picked-up the MS-460 last Friday. I will have to "lay low" for a bit to keep harmony in the family. Yeah, right. Well something like that.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Here is a pic of the bow. 12" across. Smaller than the Baileys bows so should be less than 86 DL (Like Diesel I looked it up in my Baileys catalog yesterday).

Called my dealer and he said not to bring it in the bow, but that it uses 81 DL , he rattled off what DL for all the old bows by manufacturer - apparently there are a lot still in use around here. Dealer said I can come pick up an 84DL RS loop from them to take and be sure and they'll knock it down to 81 for me if that checks out. He's gonna give me some .063 links to be sure on gauge.

He also said a guy warming up for a Stihl show/demonstration killed himself w/ a bow years ago - guy w/ 20+ years running saws professionally. Anyone heard that or is it another urban legend? Also said bows are illegal to manufacture - by anyone... I'll be sure and keep it w/ my hi-cap mags and AP ammo... or did the sunset of the AW ban make bows legal again?

It purely for educational purposes anyway...I mean for display...

Regards,

Chaser

 

[458_lott]

Never heard that story, but experience doesn't really matter. Many causes of mishaps. Could be equipment failure, but most often it is carelessness caused by being hasty. I lost a good friend in a logging accident. When my son was just little, he was with me talking to my friend. My son noticed that Claude was missing some fingers on one hand. Being a young boy and uninhibited, he asked, "Mr. Huffnan (his name was Huffman), what happened to your fingers?" Claude looked me square in the eye and said that you cannot stay in this business for life and not expect to loose appendages, limbs, or your life. Claude was dead within two years of that conversation. Tree on the Eastern Shore of Maryland barber-chaired and crushed his chest. He died in his son's arms. Claude and his sons ran Huffman Logging out of Bethel, Delaware. I don't know if that story of your's is correct, but I do know that bows are more dangerous than bars. I have a healthy respect for this business and I run all saws with intensity and complete concentration. There is no such thing as a little knick with a running saw. The teeth on a chain saw remove skin chips just like wood. Really hard, even for a trauma surgeon, to repair. If you are going to run that bow (and they are a hoot), get the top and bottom guards and BE CAREFUL. Like I said before, the key is keeping the bumper spikes on the correct side of the wood.

 

[Diesel JD]

Lott...what I want to know for sure is if the bumper spike needs to be pushed firmly against the wood or if it's supposed to be under the log. The Stihl manual seems to indicate the spike should be aginst the wood, while I've heard others say into the sand or under the log. Thanks,
J.D.

 

[wagonwheeler]

Lott...what I want to know for sure is if the bumper spike needs to be pushed firmly against the wood or if it's supposed to be under the log. The Stihl manual seems to indicate the spike should be aginst the wood, while I've heard others say into the sand or under the log. Thanks,
J.D.

I've never seen 'em stuck into the ground. Just kept snug against the log and run down the face and sorta under the log. Rock the saw over to complete the cut but keep the bumper locked tight. My buddy used it in a similar manner to fell trees by pushing it into the tree and walking it backwards to make the face cut, then just rocking/pushing it for the back cut.

Chaser

 

[Diesel JD]

I will have to learn to cut with one...I don't want to kill myself in the process. That is what I would have thought anyhow that it is to be spiked in. Anymore input is good. It would be cool to see a link count for all the old bows like you got from your dealer...but he prob. had them memorized. I think he was trying to give you a healthy fear of all the damage these things can do if used incorrectly. It is true that bow guides are illegal in Colorado and maybe one or 2 other states, but I don't see how Baileys could sell them if they were illegal to manufacture. We ahd a thread on these things a couple months back where I asked how dangerous they were really...and lots of people said they had used them without incident, yet that they are a tool for teh experienced woodcutter and not to use them without the guards.

 

[wagonwheeler]

I will have to learn to cut with one...I don't want to kill myself in the process. That is what I would have thought anyhow that it is to be spiked in. Anymore input is good. It would be cool to see a link count for all the old bows like you got from your dealer...but he prob. had them memorized. I think he was trying to give you a healthy fear of all the damage these things can do if used incorrectly.

Yeah, I think my dealer is absolutely correct in making it clear how dangerous a bow can be. Nothing wrong w/ having a very clear and healthy respect for kickback.

With so few bars manufactured now I'm not sure the link count matters much anymore. But it would be good info. I'll ask again and write it down.

I think you're correct on all counts of caution - but understand that my comments are secondhand and from observation - not experience. 458lott and my buddy Mark are longtime users that can really describe what's going on. I'll be cutting w/ Mark again soon and will bring the bow (and a fullface helmet...) and get some proper instruction. I don't want to try and understand what he 'said', I want to see it play by play.

If I scare myself silly w/ this one I'll pass it on to ya! So give me a little time...

Oddly, my buddy Mark whose run them so long is about as impulsive and reckless a person I know in most respects. None of his bows have guards - but granted I never knew bows had guards till recently since none around here ever had them - and just like the pulpwooders he's never worn any PPE. He just fires up the saw and jumps in there and goes to it.

No doubt he's been fortunate since he's not taking any precaution beyond relying on his own ability - and yet he also knows how to run a bow saw. I want to know how to run a bow well, but I'll do it w/ guards thank you...

Chaser

 

[Diesel JD]

Yeah. I would probably like to watch somebody who knows how to use one first before I bolt it on and I might go with teh full face shield until I learn really well what I'm doing. I believe they are as safe as a straight bar if used as intended by experienced users. But not by the guy that cuts once a year with his saw.