Building wood with freshly felled hemlock and cedar.

[ahrenswett]

I have a few logs about 15-in diameter base 30 to 40 ft long. I'm looking to use them for posts for my woodshed. My concern is using them now they are at 30% saturation and I don't want there to be any concerns with stability as they dry out. Do you think this would be an issue?

 

[BeatCJ]

When you say posts, I assume ground contact. If so, Hemlock probably isn't a good choice for posts. It will rot pretty quickly. If you intend to mill it for lumber, it needs to be dried, it also tends to warp and twist pretty badly. Cedar will be OK.

 

[ahrenswett]

When you say posts, I assume ground contact. If so, Hemlock probably isn't a good choice for posts. It will rot pretty quickly. If you intend to mill it for lumber, it needs to be dried, it also tends to warp and twist pretty badly. Cedar will be OK.

Will not be ground contact. I am pouring footings and then inserting rebar into footing and tree with some tree lumber preservative on the end of the logs. think hem will be ok like that not milled?

 

[Mad Professor]

Will not be ground contact. I am pouring footings and then inserting rebar into footing and tree with some tree lumber preservative on the end of the logs. think hem will be ok like that not milled?

You want to get the bark off it, and a barrier between the post and the footing, even if it's just a piece of 2X PT and tar paper.

They used to put up timber frames green.

 

[ahrenswett]

You want to get the bark off it, and a barrier between the post and the footing, even if it's just a piece of 2X PT and tar paper.

They used to put up timber frames green.

Was thinking they got away from it because of the warping and desire to make buildings last longer.

 

[Mad Professor]

Was thinking they got away from it because of the warping and desire to make buildings last longer.

There is buildings from the 1600s

 

[BeatCJ]

Used like you are planning, you should be OK. If you keep the stem intact, you won't have much issue with the warp or twist. Leave the top of your footings above ground level, crown the top of it for drainage.

Are you Westside or Dryside?

I assume wet, those are western Washington species.

 

[kd.rodgers]

Hemlock and cedar tend to really move as they dry over time. At 30%, they WILL continue to dry and shrink. This means that as the logs dry, they may check/crack and twist or warp. This can mean instability for your woodshed posts down the road.

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

I wouldn't put any lumber in contact with concrete except for redwood or pressure treat. The suggestion to lay a piece of tar paper between the surfaces is excellent advice.

As for framing with green lumber, it's done all the time. I expect the reason most people will only see KD lumber has more to do with shipping costs than shrinkage.

 

[slowp]

Hemlock is one of the softer softwoods. Hemlock is more prone to rot. It sells for a lower price for a reason. I'd go for cedar or Doug-fir and I'd wait until it is seasoned. Especially if you live on the wet side. Western WA is a whole different climate from Nevada or the east coast. There's a reason the original inhabitants used cedar for building.

 

[Mad Professor]

Hemlock is one of the softer softwoods. Hemlock is more prone to rot. It sells for a lower price for a reason. I'd go for cedar or Doug-fir and I'd wait until it is seasoned. Especially if you live on the wet side. Western WA is a whole different climate from Nevada or the east coast. There's a reason the original inhabitants used cedar for building.

He's making posts for a woodshed! Not a church.

They've built 1000s of barns and houses with green hemlock, and many still stand from the 1800s.

If OP is going to use rounds, you can do layout using scribe rule and use timber frame joinery.

It's the same as if working with an irregular timber.


Copyright, Mad Professor

 

[BeatCJ]

Eastern Hemlock and Western Hemlock, while related are significantly different species. Western Hemlock is one of the fastest growing coniferous species, while Eastern Hemlock is apparently a slow growing species.

That said, you are right, he's not building a piano, it would work. But in our area, there are better choices for posts. Like the Cedar the OP stated he had.

 

[Mad Professor]

Eastern Hemlock and Western Hemlock, while related are significantly different species. Western Hemlock is one of the fastest growing coniferous species, while Eastern Hemlock is apparently a slow growing species.

That said, you are right, he's not building a piano, it would work. But in our area, there are better choices for posts. Like the Cedar the OP stated he had.

If both are free and abundant, cedar.

 

[BeatCJ]

It's all about suggesting good choices. When my now retired boss was having a local contractor build his home, he stated in his contract "No Hemlock". He rejected two loads of finished lumber before the builder (also a local) realized he not only meant it, but could tell the difference. That was 35 years ago, I suspect you would have trouble making that happen today. There were a few places they snuck it in on him. Hemlock is very popular with pressure treating plants, it accepts the water-borne salt treatments really well.

 

[ahrenswett]

This has been an awesome conversation thank you all for participating! I'm going to go ahead and use the cedar I have I think I can get all six posts out of what I have. I might have to cut down some smaller cedars which is fine I can just thin out some areas on my property.

 

[lone wolf]

https://woodworkingadvisor.com/is-hemlock-rot-resistant/#The_Truth_About_Hemlock_Rot_Resistance

 

[Breckinridge Elkins]

Hemlock is one of the softer softwoods. Hemlock is more prone to rot. It sells for a lower price for a reason. I'd go for cedar or Doug-fir and I'd wait until it is seasoned. Especially if you live on the wet side. Western WA is a whole different climate from Nevada or the east coast. There's a reason the original inhabitants used cedar for building.

For the record, I did most of my homebuilding on the wet NorCal coast.
We frequently used KD pre-primed hemlock for exterior trim.
I was just visiting the coast two weeks ago and toured some of the homes I built (framed with green lumber, trimmed with KD). 25+ year old homes all looked great except where the owners had neglected exterior paint.

That said, we always used pressure treat lumber for cement contact or redwood with a tar paper pad.
Building homes in the Sierras I see a lot of cedar and it doesn't last quite like redwood thougfh much better than pines.

 

[SS396driver]

Hemlock makes nice trim . My barn built in the early 1800s used black locust posts and beams that made ground contact . I need to replace some of the sills but close to 200 year life span is good enough for me

 

[slowp]

He's making posts for a woodshed! Not a church.

They've built 1000s of barns and houses with green hemlock, and many still stand from the 1800s.

If OP is going to use rounds, you can do layout using scribe rule and use timber frame joinery.

It's the same as if working with an irregular timber.


Copyright, Mad Professor

View attachment 1149616

Then I'd recommend slamming some metal fence posts in the ground and draping a tarp (blue of course) over the posts. It might last a winter if one drains the rainwater off it--in a normal western WA winter that would be every day.

 

[BeatCJ]

For the record, I did most of my homebuilding on the wet NorCal coast.
We frequently used KD pre-primed hemlock for exterior trim.
I was just visiting the coast two weeks ago and toured some of the homes I built (framed with green lumber, trimmed with KD). 25+ year old homes all looked great except where the owners had neglected exterior paint.

I don't doubt it. I suspect it was a matter of cost and availability rather than choosing the best material for the job. A significant number of homes were built with L-P Siding that was failure prone if the coating envelope wasn't pristine, because it helped cut costs.

But that really doesn't go to the OP's question.