Chain Sharpening Prices
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SawTroll
Information Collector
Why does anyone care? Just use files, and do it right - unless the chain is a hopeless mess, after hitting something hard and/or abrasive.
Jim Timber
1/4 bubble off
Hell, I hate doing one - and I only do it every six months.
My wife must see it as a challenge to find every rock in the yard. I stopped balancing it a couple years ago. There was simply too much material coming off, and then she'd just chunk out the other side next trip out of the shed, so I figure it's only balanced for about 20 minutes if I do it anyway.
So if my wife's mower blade abuse is anything like the general public, I think I'd rather serve fast food than sharpen those. Would you like fries with that?
LegDeLimber
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'll take grinding chains over Doing the mower blades that came in from the nearby dog kennel.
SierraWoodsman
ArboristSite Guru
Sometimes you don't get what you pay for.
I'm charging $7.00 for square ground up to 20" and $9.00 for anything over 20".
I'm doing this more for me to get more proficient with my new RSII. This is comparable to One of the local OPE shops.
There are not any shops in the area that will do square ground. In fact they look at you like your from mars if you ask them about
sharpening Square Ground Chisel.
The main problem I've found with the shops I've been too is that very often you give them a chain that is only "wood dull" needing only a slight touch-up sharpening
and you get your chain back only to find that over half of all the cutter teeth has been ground off!
Then they say: "that will be 12 dollars please..."
It made me feel like they took off a lot more than needed so that they could sell me a new chain that much quicker.
This alone was enough to get me looking for an alternative.
Mabye if I do well enough by enough people I can make a little money at it for side work.
I'm charging $7.00 for square ground up to 20" and $9.00 for anything over 20".
I'm doing this more for me to get more proficient with my new RSII. This is comparable to One of the local OPE shops.
There are not any shops in the area that will do square ground. In fact they look at you like your from mars if you ask them about
sharpening Square Ground Chisel.
The main problem I've found with the shops I've been too is that very often you give them a chain that is only "wood dull" needing only a slight touch-up sharpening
and you get your chain back only to find that over half of all the cutter teeth has been ground off!
Then they say: "that will be 12 dollars please..."
It made me feel like they took off a lot more than needed so that they could sell me a new chain that much quicker.
This alone was enough to get me looking for an alternative.
Mabye if I do well enough by enough people I can make a little money at it for side work.
Sagetown
Farmer and a STIHL
My Dad was a logger back in the 30's. He showed me how to sharpen sawchains in the early 60's, and I've been sharpening my own chains ever since.
I can understand why most folks would rather pay for a job well done.:chainsawguy:
It's too time consuming to learn now days.
I can understand why most folks would rather pay for a job well done.:chainsawguy:
It's too time consuming to learn now days.
It's far more difficult and time consuming for a shop to lop off half the cutter - especially when it isn't necessary. Nobody in their right mind would do it on purpose. The amount of time involved isn't even worth selling two new chains because this one will be dead sooner. There's a reason that much was ground off. That's the reason some places won't even attempt rocked out chains, it nearly doubles the time involved in grinding, maybe even more.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
I agree. Grinding a lot off of cutters is time consuming for sure but it is also wears out grinding discs, even the ABN/CBN Dinasaw style wheels, tenfold. Not to mention the extra dust and crap created.
The only reason I can think of as to why a business would intentionally grind a heap off of an otherwise good chain is to have you buy a new one faster. Other than that it would be caused by sheer stupidity and/or a lack of experience.
It is people like this that grind customer's chains which create the old "grinders overheat and wear out chains faster" theory. In the right hands grinders take no more meat off of a cutter than a file.
imagineero
Addicted to ArboristSite
I sharpen about a dozen chains a day, all my own. I get asked to sharpen for other guys but I almost never do. Some other tree guys ask me to do a chain for them and occasionally I do it. Pricing for sharpening chains is high in australia, at least $15 even for smaller chains. Chains are more expensive here though. I'd rather sharpen mower blades.
I think you do mostly get what you pay for when it comes to sharpening. I've not ever seen a chain sharpened by a shop that I'd call adequate, let alone good. As already mentioned by other posters, they often come back with incorrect angles, blued cutters, half the tooth gone etc... It seems to be the job handed out to the lowliest person in the shop in most cases.
I have a 511A with an ABN cyclone wheel, but to be honest I think the results it gives are not worth cutting with. I'll use it when I have a badly rocked out chain, but mostly only on long chains. Short chains I'll ditch if they're already fairly worn. After being on the machine I hand sharpen. I hand sharpen all my chains, and set my rakers with a digital angle finder to 6 degrees. using 25 thou is pretty arbitrary. It will give you a lessening angle of attack as the cutter wears. If i had to charge a price for doing this it would be at least $20 for a 24" chain.
Shaun
I think you do mostly get what you pay for when it comes to sharpening. I've not ever seen a chain sharpened by a shop that I'd call adequate, let alone good. As already mentioned by other posters, they often come back with incorrect angles, blued cutters, half the tooth gone etc... It seems to be the job handed out to the lowliest person in the shop in most cases.
I have a 511A with an ABN cyclone wheel, but to be honest I think the results it gives are not worth cutting with. I'll use it when I have a badly rocked out chain, but mostly only on long chains. Short chains I'll ditch if they're already fairly worn. After being on the machine I hand sharpen. I hand sharpen all my chains, and set my rakers with a digital angle finder to 6 degrees. using 25 thou is pretty arbitrary. It will give you a lessening angle of attack as the cutter wears. If i had to charge a price for doing this it would be at least $20 for a 24" chain.
Shaun
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
I vary my charges depending on the state of the chain, who the customer is, and how much they've dealt with me. Despite being in Australia our exchange rate is pretty well 1:1 at the moment so my prices are comparable to the prices in the US.
I charge no less than $5 for a quick grind on a small chain (no rakers) and up to $12 for the works although I see no chains here (apart from my own) that are over about 84DL. I'm one of the only guys around with larger saws and longer bars. An MS310 is a big saw here. Other dealers charge $10-15 and in all honesty NONE of the local dealers actually cut wood so have no idea on how to grind a chain apart from textbooks and customer feedback.
What people also have to take into consideration when grinding is their experience and expertise. It's easy to charge $5 for everything if you run from home (like me) but when you have the overheads of a business plus the expense of grinding wheels (for example my 3/8"/.404" Dinasaw ABN/CBN needed recoating the other week which cost $180!) it's easy to see why shopfront businesses need to charge more. If a backyarder actually did the sums like a true business has to they'll find at $5 they are potentially losing money when ALL costs are taken into consideration.
If a customer ever says you're charging too much let them grind their own chain right there and then. I'd laugh my head off when they took the rakers down to 0.100" and ground an 80° hook. Assuming they knew what the rakers actually were and what hook is
I'll remember you Niko when I want my 60" .404" chains filed It's easy to say that filing is the way to go when you're running an 18" bar max in clean softwoods but crank out a long bar in a big, dirty old hardwood log full of termite dirt and you'll change your filing theory quick smart This is when my auto hydraulic Speed Sharp and Dinasaw wheels really pay for themselves.
In really grubby situations I actually run my Speed Sharp and generator off the back of my vehicle and grind chains on site.
I charge no less than $5 for a quick grind on a small chain (no rakers) and up to $12 for the works although I see no chains here (apart from my own) that are over about 84DL. I'm one of the only guys around with larger saws and longer bars. An MS310 is a big saw here. Other dealers charge $10-15 and in all honesty NONE of the local dealers actually cut wood so have no idea on how to grind a chain apart from textbooks and customer feedback.
What people also have to take into consideration when grinding is their experience and expertise. It's easy to charge $5 for everything if you run from home (like me) but when you have the overheads of a business plus the expense of grinding wheels (for example my 3/8"/.404" Dinasaw ABN/CBN needed recoating the other week which cost $180!) it's easy to see why shopfront businesses need to charge more. If a backyarder actually did the sums like a true business has to they'll find at $5 they are potentially losing money when ALL costs are taken into consideration.
If a customer ever says you're charging too much let them grind their own chain right there and then. I'd laugh my head off when they took the rakers down to 0.100" and ground an 80° hook. Assuming they knew what the rakers actually were and what hook is
I'll remember you Niko when I want my 60" .404" chains filed
It's easy to say that filing is the way to go when you're running an 18" bar max in clean softwoods but crank out a long bar in a big, dirty old hardwood log full of termite dirt and you'll change your filing theory quick smart This is when my auto hydraulic Speed Sharp and Dinasaw wheels really pay for themselves.In really grubby situations I actually run my Speed Sharp and generator off the back of my vehicle and grind chains on site.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
That's interesting Shaun as I get really good results with mine although I must admit grinders don't seem to have the same kick on full chisel as on semi chisel. I can't say I've ever had a full chisel chain come off a grinder that I've found brilliant. The average customer would think it's awesome but it's not up to my standard.
I honestly think it has to be the latter of the two. You know as well as I do that the extra time and wear and tear on the equipment isn't worth the sale of a new chain - which happens later on down the road because the chain just sharpened it still good.... Can't even sell two or three chains eventually to make up for it. It's just not worth it. UNLESS, the dealer simply hasn't figured that out yet.
MCW
Somebody's talking crap here & it ain't the tree!
tolman_paul
ArboristSite Guru
Another vote for stupidity and lack of experience.
More likely it goes something like this. Well, we can't trust Clevis to work on an engine, he'll really muck it up. Let's put him on the grinder where he can do the least amount of harm.
But back to pricing, I agree I'm not willing to pay to have my loops professionally sharpened, which is why I've only had a chain sharpened once. After that I got a set of files and would just touch up the chains in the woods before they got truly dull. After several touch ups I'd hit them with a stone in the dremel. Last year I got a NT grinder and am using my oldest pretty much gone loop to learn on.
But, while I wouldn't want to pay $10 a loop to have one sharpened, I'm not going to sharpen someones chain for next to nothing as I put a vaule on my time and fully understand the ecomics of a shop where they have to charge enough to pay for the investment in the grinder, pay overhead, pay the guy running the grinder and pay for consumables.
For the casual saw user, they simply don't spend enough time using the saw to put the time in to gain the skills to sharpen a chain and lets face it, nothing is more frustrating than trying to cut wood with a dull or improperly sharpened chain. For such a user getting a couple spare loops of chain and being able to rotate one loop through the shop to be sharpened makes more sense then unsucessfully sharpening a chain on their own. Heck most people don't even change the oil in their cars anymore and that's about as easy of a job as there is.
More likely it goes something like this. Well, we can't trust Clevis to work on an engine, he'll really muck it up. Let's put him on the grinder where he can do the least amount of harm.
But back to pricing, I agree I'm not willing to pay to have my loops professionally sharpened, which is why I've only had a chain sharpened once. After that I got a set of files and would just touch up the chains in the woods before they got truly dull. After several touch ups I'd hit them with a stone in the dremel. Last year I got a NT grinder and am using my oldest pretty much gone loop to learn on.
But, while I wouldn't want to pay $10 a loop to have one sharpened, I'm not going to sharpen someones chain for next to nothing as I put a vaule on my time and fully understand the ecomics of a shop where they have to charge enough to pay for the investment in the grinder, pay overhead, pay the guy running the grinder and pay for consumables.
For the casual saw user, they simply don't spend enough time using the saw to put the time in to gain the skills to sharpen a chain and lets face it, nothing is more frustrating than trying to cut wood with a dull or improperly sharpened chain. For such a user getting a couple spare loops of chain and being able to rotate one loop through the shop to be sharpened makes more sense then unsucessfully sharpening a chain on their own. Heck most people don't even change the oil in their cars anymore and that's about as easy of a job as there is.
hangfirew8
ArboristSite Operative
Chain sharpening prices are all over the map around here. I go out of town (but on the way to work) to a place that charges $6 off saw, $10 on. Funny thing, when telling my friends that, some immediately went for the $6 and others for the $10, each thinking it was a bargain. Well, actually, it is a bargain, either way. Considering the labor involved, I thought they were great prices, and reading this thread confirmed that.
I try to educate my casual saw using friends about chain sharpening. Some are technicians and once shown what to do, will do it exactly that way from then on, if it doesn't work they'll come back or try something else until it works.
Others, I give them the choice of learning from me (scary, huh?) or going to a shop. I'll even offer to take their chain to the $6/10 place for them (since it is part of my commute and I like to stop in and give them business). The important thing is that they now know there is such a thing as chain sharpening and that it should be done often.
Around here almost everyone owns a chainsaw "that runs great" when they last used it "about 2 years ago" (might be 4 or 5), because we live in hurricane alley amongst a whole lot of hardwood trees. Yes, I try to educate them on ethanol fuel as well...
HF
I try to educate my casual saw using friends about chain sharpening. Some are technicians and once shown what to do, will do it exactly that way from then on, if it doesn't work they'll come back or try something else until it works.
Others, I give them the choice of learning from me (scary, huh?) or going to a shop. I'll even offer to take their chain to the $6/10 place for them (since it is part of my commute and I like to stop in and give them business). The important thing is that they now know there is such a thing as chain sharpening and that it should be done often.
Around here almost everyone owns a chainsaw "that runs great" when they last used it "about 2 years ago" (might be 4 or 5), because we live in hurricane alley amongst a whole lot of hardwood trees. Yes, I try to educate them on ethanol fuel as well...
HF
Bingo
ArboristSite Operative
Sharpening
I mostly do firewood bucking/splitting in my backyard on 6 footers that I wrestled out of a woods somewhere. First time I took my 3 chains to the dealer and found I got there about 10 min too late on a Saturday and they were closed I thought...that's it, I can do this at home and not have to drive 40 miles round trip. My dealer does a lot of chains but, and I've watched plenty and picked the brains of these guys for a long time, to me they take way more off a chain then I would. No rakers and it seems they do them all the same w/o any individual set-up. Not good for me. Two minutes, done. My NT grinder works fine and I control how much metal is moved. But I usually hand file and the results have been quite good w/some practice. If I damage a chain I can grind it and start over. After some trial/error it seems to be working and I can do it in my garage in about ten minutes. I save a lot in gas and cost by doing it myself. And I know I've gotten back the cost of a grinder/files/jigs/gas, etc, many times over by doing it at home...Having a sharp chain makes everything work better. But I applaud shops that do a good job for their customers and have a lot of repeat business. Also, they can charge anything they want...I just don't have to pay it knowing my sharpening works well for me. Here. At home. In ten or so minutes. And no driving! I've gotten quite of bit of equipment from my dealer and he's a good guy. But I'll do my own chains thank you.
I mostly do firewood bucking/splitting in my backyard on 6 footers that I wrestled out of a woods somewhere. First time I took my 3 chains to the dealer and found I got there about 10 min too late on a Saturday and they were closed I thought...that's it, I can do this at home and not have to drive 40 miles round trip. My dealer does a lot of chains but, and I've watched plenty and picked the brains of these guys for a long time, to me they take way more off a chain then I would. No rakers and it seems they do them all the same w/o any individual set-up. Not good for me. Two minutes, done. My NT grinder works fine and I control how much metal is moved. But I usually hand file and the results have been quite good w/some practice. If I damage a chain I can grind it and start over. After some trial/error it seems to be working and I can do it in my garage in about ten minutes. I save a lot in gas and cost by doing it myself. And I know I've gotten back the cost of a grinder/files/jigs/gas, etc, many times over by doing it at home...Having a sharp chain makes everything work better. But I applaud shops that do a good job for their customers and have a lot of repeat business. Also, they can charge anything they want...I just don't have to pay it knowing my sharpening works well for me. Here. At home. In ten or so minutes. And no driving! I've gotten quite of bit of equipment from my dealer and he's a good guy. But I'll do my own chains thank you.
SierraWoodsman
ArboristSite Guru
indiansprings
Firewood Purveyor
There is a shop locally that does exactly what was mentioned earlier, grinds half a tooth off and just hammers the grinding wheel through the tooth, taking a lot of the temper out of the teeth, almost half of the teeth are burnt blue /black, it's a 19/20 year old kid that sharpens them. I've had several brought to me to sharpen after the user has found that they dull very quickly, they are known for being the crappiest saw shop around, sell both Stihl and Husky, horrible service. Last time I was in they still had several models of discontinued Huskies and Stihls on the shelves, the original 372 XP, 359, 260's, a couple of 200T's. The little shop across town does 2.5 times the business.
Sagetown
Farmer and a STIHL
Hand Filing, as SawTroll mentioned, is easy and fast as long as the chain need only a touch up job. But badly abused long chains can cause elbow soreness, and you surely don't want that. It took me weeks to get over it. That's when I got the NT grinder for the tuff stuff, and backlogged chains that have surprisingly piled up.:hmm3grin2orange:
tolman_paul
ArboristSite Guru
Save your elbows for tipping back a cold one :hmm3grin2orange:
