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Deleted member 135597
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Yeah that’s what I figured you meant but wasn’t sure. Your giving the cutter less hook than the one pictured. Basically like a knife, the finer the edge the sharper it is, but less durable.
Chain sharpening pro tips.
- Thread starter SamT1
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Deleted member 135597
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For me this is the information I was looking for before I start playing with angles to optimize my chains in my cutting conditions. I like to know the why and how of what I’m doing before I alter things so I know what directions to go in. So now if I alter my head tilt from 60 to 55 I should expect a more pronounced self feeding chain, or some may say aggressive, but possibly less durable. If I understand correctly, if I alter my vise rotation from 30 to 32.5 it will produce a more aggressive chain, Or am I thinking about that wrong? Basically what I’m getting at is I like to learn the theory of how something works first instead of making blind adjustments, getting lucky and not knowing why what I did lead to the result I was looking for.
hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
It might or should in a softer wood that will be your sweet spot to find
A lot of combinations to try
It could be 56* and 33*
I had to write it down on paper every combination so when I came in I could say that chain was faster than the last one
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A lot of combinations to try
It could be 56* and 33*
I had to write it down on paper every combination so when I came in I could say that chain was faster than the last one
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
Yeah you have it right. I deal with a large volume of dry wood that has been on the ground so there is always some debris on the wood. HOWEVER why use chisel chain?? Semi chisel has proven to get at least twice the work done. Just my observation and yes it is probably very likely pretty ridiculous. Thanks
Frankly, because it it FUN!
Seriously, I consider semi-chisel chain to be like 'all season radial' tires for cars - the best, all around choice for most people. But, when you have clean wood and want to cut fast, or make some chips, a sharp, full chisel chain is the answer.
I have said this many times; no reason to have just one chain for a saw. Nobody plays golf with just one club.
I like to think of saws like socket sets:
- 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive = 40cc, 50-60cc, and 70+cc powerheads;
- 2", 6", and 12" extensions = different guide bar lengths;
- SAE, metric, specialty, and deep sockets = different chains (chisel, semi-chisel, skip, etc.).
Pull up to a log and instruct your caddy: 'Hand me the 60cc STIHL; with a 25" bar; and a full comp, full chisel loop ground at 30°'.
(I'm thinking of having guide bar covers knitted with those tassels on the ends to replace the plastic scabbards . . . . )
Philbert
RanchDad
ArboristSite Operative
Best answer material right here! [emoji41]
hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
I like everything he has to say but if your in it for the money and not using it for heat have fun!!!!!
I have a few chisels in hiding and will be pulling them out with a 8 pin rim sprocket and that is fun!!!!
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hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
RanchDad
ArboristSite Operative
Also an excellent point.. I’m definitely not in it for the money! Heck, I live in Alabama..heat is rarely a necessity, I just enjoy cutting wood. I’m fortunate my family likes fires. Saws (and bars and chains)are a cost center ‘hobby’ for me for sure.
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Deleted member 135597
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So here’s some back history of why I’m asking all these questions. I have an Oregon 511a grinder that I’ve had for about 15 years. I always used the grinder up to about 3 years ago when I bought a Stihl fg2 file jig. The reason I got the file jig was because I felt like I could never get the ground chain to cut as good as a new out of the box Stihl chain. I mean it cut good, but I felt it was always a little lacking. I have CBN wheels for the different chains I use, they leave a burr that I’m not thrilled with, but it scrapes off with a fingernail. I never played with the angles frankly because I didn’t quite understand the relationship they played. Plus I’m a by the book kind of person and Stihl charts said 30/60/0 so that’s what I went with, even as far as using a digital angle finder to make sure the head tilt was actually 60 degrees. On to the file jig, there is no head tilt with this, that angle is created by how deep down you run the file, in other words your creating the hook and have no idea what angle it is. I got good with this jig and have my chains cutting as good as new chains, but each chain your pretty much guessing how much hook your creating, it’s extremely hard to recreate identical chains without having the “set” 60 degree angle. This is why I want to try going back to the grinder so I can have absolute consistent results with each chain. I put a hand filed chain on the grinder like @Philbert recommended, and it appears my angle is about 50 degrees! So I ground a chain at 30/50/0 for the hell of it and it was pretty grabby (ms461 with a 20 inch bar). I’m not sure why the hand filed chain operates different than the ground chain at what appears to be the same angle. I ground a chain of .325 full chisel for my ms261 at 30/55/0 and it threw great chips, but I would have liked a little more self feeding action. I also set my rakers using a digital angle finder to 6 degrees. This takes a long time if your looking for perfection, but I’m not so sure how important it is because I’ve checked lots of new chains with large swings in raker height on the same chain. I’ve had new Stihl chains that cut nice and had raker heights vary from 3.5 degrees all the way up to 7 on the same chain. 99% of the Wood I cut is live trees that I fall and buck up. Mostly oak with the occasional beech, maple, hickory mixed in. Nice clean green wood. I don’t feel oak is all that hard when it’s green, the saws rip threw it pretty easy compared to dry oak.
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Deleted member 135597
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My chain sharpening station
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How do you get that weird shaped gullet? Go back and hit the bottom with a file?
If so, why? Not trying to fight, just curious.
If so, why? Not trying to fight, just curious.
D
Deleted member 135597
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That’s actually a pretty new chain that’s only been hand filed a couple times so the gullet is a little deceiving. But with the grinder, I only run it down to get all of the top plate and the top portion of the side plate. Then I will take another pass away from the cutting edge to clean up the gullet. I try and recreate the concave top plate that a file creates ( only using the round portion of the grinding wheel)
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Deleted member 135597
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Here is the .325 that I ground at 30/55/0. You can see the second pass to clean up the gullet
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Do you change the performance any?
Again, just curious.
Again, just curious.
D
Deleted member 135597
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Here is the one that I just grazed with the grinder to get it to 30/50/0. I did this to try and recreate the profile that was working well with the handfiled chain but it was way to grabby on the 461 with 20 inch bar in green silver maple which says a lot. I don’t understand why the hand filed performed different than the ground at what appears to be the same angle
D
Deleted member 135597
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By taking two passes instead of one? If that’s what you mean, I do that so if I file in the field I’m not altering the cutter compared to how it was ground. It’s not the exact same as hand filed, but it’s pretty close
hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
When I want impress someone with a Sharp chain
I will push one pass with file and guide then run it
Cbn’s levees a good finish but a file is better
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hedge hog
ArboristSite Guru
And is the second pic sharpen by a CBN?????
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