Cheap shenanigans

[ZinTrees]

I seriously doubt a lifeline would help if say you cut a arm off or cut threw a thigh or kickback into your neck

you can't spur back down a tree with a flipline if you cut an arm, you can however rappel out with one hand

you should never be able to have a kickback hit you in the neck, and really shouldn't be able to cut your thigh either, saw should be between your belt and collarbone at all times

I watched one of bucking billy Ray videos and he didn't have a lifeline what was up with that?

he's been doing it since before 2 tie ins was really a rule, and he disregards the rule anyways, as has been said already, its stupid, and on commercial jobs actually breaks Z133

but all I got is my chaps will they work in the tree?

chaps and climbing do not mix, ever

get saw pants, or climb in jeans, either of those are "acceptable" but chaps are a no-go when aloft





do not take a saw up the tree till you have 2 tie ins, one of them being a way to reach the ground in one straight shot (so must be a rope, can't be 2 fliplines) and also you gotta get to where you are comfortable on spikes, going up, down, and around with your hands stretched out to your sides, not touching the tree, rope or flipline


and avoid 1 handing a saw if at all possible, I won't be that guy that says 2 hands is mandatory, as I rarely use both, but I know its not safe, ANSI want's 2 hands unless you absolutely can't

a steel core flipline is NOT saw proof, not even saw resistant, so keep this in mind whenever youtube man or another uneducated forum member says a steel core is saw proof, even a hand saw can cut them

helmet with ear muffs, face shield and chin strap is also required

 

[Crftrapper535]

well, you will NEVER have 100 ropes in a tree

climbing with a single tie in is STUPID

T.I.T.S is a SUPER important rule, even more so as an inexperienced climber that will be more prone to gaffing out or not knowing where their bar tip is in relation to ropes



no amount of extra ropes in a tree adds any more danger if you engage even half your brain, ropes can tangle, but they shouldn't, with a half decent climber and ground crew, they won't be tangling or snagging, same goes for a rope going into a chipper, EVERY piece of brush should be inspected before going anywhere near a running chipper or a machine of any sort


I have fallen just rappelling out of a hackberry once, ***** not fun, my zigzag locked up somehow and wouldn't grab the rope, kicked off a limb at about 40ft, came down a little faster than normal and when I tried to slow down at about 20ft I had nothing besides the friction of my rope over a limb, so I won't ever make fun of someone being tied in twice even if they aren't cutting, equipment can and will fail, ropes can get cut, especially under tension, even without you touching a saw to them, the tree can fail, etc


I was working for a half price harry a few years ago, im up in the bucket rigging down a red maple, alternating ends of my rope, I send a branch down, tie the other end of the rope to the bucket as I am re-positioning the block, I felt the bucket shake a little and look down to see the limb being fed into the chipper, dumbass feeding the chipper assumed the other ground guy had untied the rope, thankfully one of the 2 other guys saw it and stopped the chipper, I came down out of the tree and yelled at the kid, showed him the "rope in chipper" video and basically told him if I ever saw it again id probably end up with some jail time for beating him to a pulp, he never did it again!



working on my own, or with a decent ground crew, never once have I been even remotely close to being pulled out of a tree, but that one moron almost ended it all right then and there

so, don't get rid of the thing holding you into the tree, get rid of the thing pulling you out of it! 2 tie ins minimum, often I will go up with 2 lanyards and a climb line depending on the tree and how my nerves are that day (I don't climb as much as I used to, maybe once or twice a month now so I get a little shaky sometimes)

To me I think the most ropes I've seen in a tree is about 10 and to me 10 seems like 100


And asfar as the chipper I think that kid would of got sent into it.. some people just don't watch or think they know it all but so far from what I learned is

1 have as many tie ins as possible
2 use a handsaw starting out
3 have a different way of decent
4 slowly become a tree monkeys (lol no offense guys)
Anything else I should take in or know?

 

[Crftrapper535]

you can't spur back down a tree with a flipline if you cut an arm, you can however rappel out with one hand

you should never be able to have a kickback hit you in the neck, and really shouldn't be able to cut your thigh either, saw should be between your belt and collarbone at all times

he's been doing it since before 2 tie ins was really a rule, and he disregards the rule anyways, as has been said already, its stupid, and on commercial jobs actually breaks Z133

chaps and climbing do not mix, ever

get saw pants, or climb in jeans, either of those are "acceptable" but chaps are a no-go when aloft





do not take a saw up the tree till you have 2 tie ins, one of them being a way to reach the ground in one straight shot (so must be a rope, can't be 2 fliplines) and also you gotta get to where you are comfortable on spikes, going up, down, and around with your hands stretched out to your sides, not touching the tree, rope or flipline


and avoid 1 handing a saw if at all possible, I won't be that guy that says 2 hands is mandatory, as I rarely use both, but I know its not safe, ANSI want's 2 hands unless you absolutely can't

a steel core flipline is NOT saw proof, not even saw resistant, so keep this in mind whenever youtube man or another uneducated forum member says a steel core is saw proof, even a hand saw can cut them

helmet with ear muffs, face shield and chin strap is also required

Oh yeah I know steel core ain't doin **** to stop a saw and I always wear a helmet and etc I think with 2 hands it won't be needed for what I'm doing it's just some small trees not nothing to wacky and then asfar as the straight rope deal what do I tie it to?

 

[ZinTrees]

asfar as the straight rope deal what do I tie it to?

a standard DRT or SRT tie in like normal, theres millions of pictures on the internet, just make sure the limb you tie into is atleast 4" diameter and structurally sound, tie in as close to the trunk as possible and make sure theres no rot, splits, metal, racoon turds, etc

1 have as many tie ins as possible
2 use a handsaw starting out
3 have a different way of decent
4 slowly become a tree monkeys (lol no offense guys)
Anything else I should take in or know?

pretty much got it, too many tie ins is almost as bad as not enough, 1 for climbing, 2 for cutting, I use 3 sometimes but its kinda rare, and never more than 3

make sure you're tied in so that you can swing away from danger if need be, I'e limb swinging back towards you, your harness and rope is strong enough that a big enough chunk can cut you in half if it hits you, never seen it happen but its 100% possible

 

[pdqdl]

So just overall say no lifeline or anything whats the chance of death and say with 100 different ropes that could get caught in the saw a chipper or tangle up what's the chance of death on that

I get it. You didn't want to use a lifeline in the tree, and don't see the need for 100 ropes.

Let's just clarify this. Nobody but you has mentioned 100 ropes, and I don't think anyone has even suggested using two ropes. Now if you think ONE rope is more than you can keep track of, just take it out of your plan, and climb on spurs and lanyard. You won't be the first person, nor the last to think that is good enough.

Did I mention that climbing with the lifeline rope isn't just safer, it is also a whole lot less work? NOTHING wears you out in a tree like hanging on to branches instead of trusting your equipment. The average newbie is totally exhausted in 1/2 hour or less of tree climbing, mostly because they cannot trust the equipment to support their weight. Most of 'em can't trust the spurs and lanyard, either, but they will relax and sit on their butt when it is attached to a rope holding them up.

 

[pdqdl]

...working on my own, or with a decent ground crew, never once have I been even remotely close to being pulled out of a tree, but that one moron almost ended it all right then and there

so, don't get rid of the thing holding you into the tree, get rid of the thing pulling you out of it! 2 tie ins minimum, often I will go up with 2 lanyards and a climb line depending on the tree and how my nerves are that day (I don't climb as much as I used to, maybe once or twice a month now so I get a little shaky sometimes)

Yeah. A lot of guys just never park the chipper close enough for the rope to make it that far. Another argument for that is so that the crew can hear the climber, or vice versa.

I never considered that a newbie climber needed to worry about the non-existent chipper, anyway. That's a red herring, since the OP doesn't have a chipper to worry about getting his rope stuck into. He wants us to tell him how much we admire his plan to take on the dangerous job with minimal equipment.

I think I'm beginning to understand why the worker's comp rates are so high for loggers. It's not the work, but the workers that make it so dangerous.

 

[Crftrapper535]

I get it. You didn't want to use a lifeline in the tree, and don't see the need for 100 ropes.

Let's just clarify this. Nobody but you has mentioned 100 ropes, and I don't think anyone has even suggested using two ropes. Now if you think ONE rope is more than you can keep track of, just take it out of your plan, and climb on spurs and lanyard. You won't be the first person, nor the last to think that is good enough.

Did I mention that climbing with the lifeline rope isn't just safer, it is also a whole lot less work? NOTHING wears you out in a tree like hanging on to branches instead of trusting your equipment. The average newbie is totally exhausted in 1/2 hour or less of tree climbing, mostly because they cannot trust the equipment to support their weight. Most of 'em can't trust the spurs and lanyard, either, but they will relax and sit on their butt when it is attached to a rope holding them up.

I probably am the first to mention 100 ropes but hey I'll cross that bridge when I get to it so for now I'm gonna play with my new toy till I get the harness and everything (new toy is a straight shaft mcculloch with a brush blade)

 

[Crftrapper535]

Yeah. A lot of guys just never park the chipper close enough for the rope to make it that far. Another argument for that is so that the crew can hear the climber, or vice versa.

I never considered that a newbie climber needed to worry about the non-existent chipper, anyway. That's a red herring, since the OP doesn't have a chipper to worry about getting his rope stuck into. He wants us to tell him how much we admire his plan to take on the dangerous job with minimal equipment.

I think I'm beginning to understand why the worker's comp rates are so high for loggers. It's not the work, but the workers that make it so dangerous.

Hahaha ha you bet your ass I have no problem saying we're dangerous as hell

 

[Crftrapper535]

Yeah. A lot of guys just never park the chipper close enough for the rope to make it that far. Another argument for that is so that the crew can hear the climber, or vice versa.

I never considered that a newbie climber needed to worry about the non-existent chipper, anyway. That's a red herring, since the OP doesn't have a chipper to worry about getting his rope stuck into. He wants us to tell him how much we admire his plan to take on the dangerous job with minimal equipment.

I think I'm beginning to understand why the worker's comp rates are so high for loggers. It's not the work, but the workers that make it so dangerous.

Oh and because we get the keys to 40ton machines with spiny blades

 

[pdqdl]

We have some good threads on brush cutter blades, too. You might wish to review the comments on that topic too. There are many different styles of brush cutter blades, and most of them are junk or close to useless.

 

[Crftrapper535]

a standard DRT or SRT tie in like normal, theres millions of pictures on the internet, just make sure the limb you tie into is atleast 4" diameter and structurally sound, tie in as close to the trunk as possible and make sure theres no rot, splits, metal, racoon turds, etc



pretty much got it, too many tie ins is almost as bad as not enough, 1 for climbing, 2 for cutting, I use 3 sometimes but its kinda rare, and never more than 3

make sure you're tied in so that you can swing away from danger if need be, I'e limb swinging back towards you, your harness and rope is strong enough that a big enough chunk can cut you in half if it hits you, never seen it happen but its 100% possible

Alright then I'm getting somewhere you have officially made the tie in simpler

 

[Crftrapper535]

We have some good threads on brush cutter blades, too. You might wish to review the comments on that topic too.

I may have to got any threads on some good wildland firefighter movies I've seen only the brave and smokejumpers just lookin for more

 

[pdqdl]

Eh. We never have wildland fires around here, so I have no expertise on that topic.

 

[ZinTrees]

think I'm beginning to understand why the worker's comp rates are so high for loggers. It's not the work, but the workers that make it so dangerous.

I'm super happy I'm exempt from workers comp, don't have enough employees to need it, give the state $100 every 2 years and I'm set!



What is it now, 30% of total income for workers comp nowadays?

 

[Crftrapper535]

Eh. We never have wildland fires around here, so I have no expertise on that topic.

Same I'm a wildland firefighter geek just ain't got no fire where I live

 

[pdqdl]

100 percent stupid question but think it would be smart carrying 2 fliplines?

There are a fair number of folks that do that. Some folks prefer a doubled flipline that has a prussic in the middle to make it work like two fliplines when you are going around a branch. I tried that for a while, but found it cumbersome.

With a little bit of thinking about it, you will realize there isn't any difference between your climbing line and a really long lanyard. They both anchor at one end to your belt, and the other end attaches to a friction device that makes the "lanyard" adjustable in length. Of course, that presumes you are using what is called the "doubled rope technique" with a split-tail attachment (DRT).

You ain't ready for SRT yet, given your reluctance to spend money on extra climbing toys.

 

[Crftrapper535]

There are a fair number of folks that do that. With a little bit of thinking about it, you will realize there isn't any difference between your climbing line and a really long lanyard. They both anchor at one end to your belt, and the other end attaches to a friction device that makes the "lanyard" adjustable in length. Of course, that presumes you are using what is called the "doubled rope technique" (DRT).

You ain't ready for SRT yet, given your reluctance to spend money on extra climbing toys.

Hehe yeah I don't see me using the climbing stuff much I just wanna learn it a little and I got 3 trees I wanna take down and have some fun and practice on them so maybe later I'll spend the big bucks and I just kinda thought maybe a extra flppy line would be helpful

 

[pdqdl]

Seriously! Just buy another chunk of rope down at the hardware store. Make sure it is 1/2 nylon, and that will work fine. it'sYou can get by with no other hardware but knots, and those are free and reliable. We can tell you how to rig on that alone.

BTW: My first climbing rope was 3-strand nylon in 1/2" thick. It will do you just fine, and it's vastly cheaper than a fall. Furthermore, it's pretty good for doing other things with. You won't regret the purchase.

 

[telecasterfool]

Hehe yeah I don't see me using the climbing stuff much I just wanna learn it a little and I got 3 trees I wanna take down and have some fun and practice on them so maybe later I'll spend the big bucks and I just kinda thought maybe a extra flppy line would be helpful

I'm curious if the trees you are taking down are spar trees - like a pole, or spreading hardwoods. If you are doing spar work, I think an SRT setup is simple, inexpensive, and safe. One rope and a petzl grigri, ($60) or any locking descender will do it. Not a lot to learn - you can probably already tie the knots.

 

[Crftrapper535]

Seriously! Just buy another chunk of rope down at the hardware store. Make sure it is 1/2 nylon, and that will work fine. it'sYou can get by with no other hardware but knots, and those are free and reliable. We can tell you how to rig on that alone.

BTW: My first climbing rope was 3-strand nylon in 1/2" thick. It will do you just fine, and it's vastly cheaper than a fall. Furthermore, it's pretty good for doing other things with. You won't regret the purchase.

Alrighty I will do that uhh what about the weight rating what should I aim for