Complete Closure over 360 Girdling

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

soiset

ArboristSite Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
59
Reaction score
6
Location
Dallas, Texas
My neighbor's mature Pecan here in Dallas had, until I removed and replaced it today, a 1/4" plastic coated cable strung between two of the dominant stems. The original installation, which was done prior to 1998 per the owner (I just moved here), was done by wrapping each of the stems with the cable and clamping, NOT with bolts.

I was able to remove without much difficulty about 80% of the cable from the smaller stem (about 12" diameter), but the cable at the other end (stem about 16" diameter) has been completely enveloped. There is a light disjuncture in the bark around the stem where the cable is still buried, but the cable is completely hidden.

Is it possible for the cambium to actually "jump" a complete gap like that, or is this stem just in its last throes? There is no crown death (yet), but to remove the cable would probably require a girdling cut all the way around, which would certainly kill that stem.

Help?

BTW, I am a former arborist, current civil engineer (emphasis on structures). I'll trade a knowledgeable answer for another from my field, if you'd like.

Thank you,

Chris
 
Yes a tree can completely close over a wire or cable. It's common to see trees on farms with fence wires completely encased in the base of a tree and the wood / bark on either side is completely normal. I think it's the same process that a tree uses to grow over a wound or a broken / pruned branch.

Just leave the remaining cable there, although it will puzzle the guy that eventually cuts the tree down if he saws into it :confused:

Ian
 
well...

Trees are viscous (largely liquid) and as you have noticed easily flow/grow over obstructions and in this case should then self graft and continue to transpire as normal, there is the possibility of this being a weak point in the stem, only cloe obsevation over long term will determine if the cons out weigh the pro's...

Some photos would really help in determining whether this stem will be safe in the future but certainly it should continue to grow without too much trouble...
 
like this

Picture144.jpg
 
A cable shouldn't be too much of a big deal. It might be a weak spot later but I wouldn't worry much about it if the tree is growing at a good rate.
 
soiset said:
M
Is it possible for the cambium to actually "jump" a complete gap like that, I'll trade a knowledgeable answer for another from my field, if you'd like.
chris I don't think we'll kniow this for sure until a stem with swallowed cable is dissected and the restored conduction outside the cable is traced. I too think it's possible, from what I've been told by researchers and observations in the field.

Has anyone cut down such a tree, and would they be willing to make and take an image of this fused regrowth?
 
Ianab said:
Yes a tree can completely close over a wire or cable. It's common to see trees on farms with fence wires completely encased in the base of a tree and the wood / bark on either side is completely normal. I think it's the same process that a tree uses to grow over a wound or a broken / pruned branch.

Just leave the remaining cable there, although it will puzzle the guy that eventually cuts the tree down if he saws into it :confused:

Ian

Yes, I've seen lots of fence wire buried in trees, but this one is unusual because the cable wraps completely around the stem. When I've seen objects encased in trees, the growth has always ocurred from the sides of the object, moving to the center over time to close the gap. In this case, there was no side from which to start; the cabium must have "swollen" above and below the cable until it actually met, the lower travelling upward, the upper travelling downward, and then somehow fused together.

The picture below is from the stem being supported. You can see that it has not managed, yet, as has the larger supporting stem, to close over the cable.

mail


ETA: Weird, the pic isn't showing up.
 
Looks like chisel and pliers can get a lot out of that big stem. any material that is exposed should be cut and pulled out. Bark does not tend to adhere to ties, so if care is taken the amount of bark that is damaged as the tie is removed should be tolerable. Even if a chisel has to cut through (a little) bark and wood on its way to severing the tie, that injury is minor compared to strangulation. Garden hose that seems hopelessly swallowed can be cut and pulled out, sometimes with a little lubrication and a lot of wiggling. If the majority of the stem’s circumference is decompressed and cleared, the long-term prognosis for the tree can be very good.

This from page 20 Nov 2006 TCI magazine:
"When staking goes bad
It’s not a pretty sight—trees tied to a stake for support when they are young, only to be choked by those ties as they grow. Arborists and other concerned citizens carry wire cutters, a screwdriver, sharp knife, hammer, chisels and a strong pair of pliers in their vehicles at all times so they can stop the strangulation wherever they see it.

Trees can easily swallow wire and, with a little more time, swallow the garden hose that a tie was slipped through. Eventually even the soft ¾-inch polypropylene webbing can be engulfed in bark, despite one manufacturer’s claim that their “rounded edge prevents the material from ever cutting into the bark … Girdling is eliminated.” Human neglect can overcome the best intentions, but many neglected trees can be restored.

Steps to restoring damage from neglected ties:

1. Inspect the entire tree. Do the roots move when you pull on the trunk, indicating poor anchorage? Have secondary stressors like scale insects attacked the sugar-rich sap that the ties prevent from flowing down? Is there dieback at the ends of the branches that originate above the ties? Have lateral branches below the ties overdeveloped at bad angles? If these problems are severe, the tree may be doomed.

There is little you can do if the tie is completely swallowed, but you might want to hold off on replacing the tree until it declines. Some researchers believe that circulation outside the tie can be restored as the tissues above and below the tie are compressed together. Acids manufactured in the tree may dissolve the foreign material. However, if for example a large tree may have swallowed a metal clothesline, the stem can break at that point. Swallowed ties can create defects that call for regular inspection, or possibly removal.

2. Inspect the ties. If they can move freely, do nothing! If the tie does not move, any material that is exposed should be cut and pulled out. Bark does not tend to adhere to ties, so if care is taken the amount of bark that is damaged as the tie is removed should be tolerable. Even if a chisel has to cut through bark and wood on its way to severing the tie, that injury is minor compared to strangulation. Garden hose that seems hopelessly swallowed can be cut and pulled out, sometimes with a little lubrication and a lot of wiggling. If the majority of the stem’s circumference is decompressed and cleared, the long-term prognosis for the tree can be very good.

3. Remove soil and mulch to find the trunk flare. If roots are girdling the stem, expose those defects and take pictures. Measure the depth and width of the mulched area, and compare that to the ANSI Standard 63.6.2.9: “Mulch should be near, but not touching, the trunk … depth of the organic mulch should be between 2 and 4 inches (5 and 10 cm).’’ Grab the trunk and pull it in all directions. If the roots do not visibly move, the tree may no longer be fit to be tied.

4. Notify the owner or manager of the tree. If there are many other trees in similar shape, you can submit an estimate for removing the rest of the ties. Once they see the bark damage from the ties, they may see that they “dodged a bullet.” They may feel relief and gratitude, and be open to information about proper root care, mulching and other arboricultural services. Owners should then be able to realize the savings rendered by proactive tree care, and avoid the losses incurred by relying on reactive tree work. Annual monitoring of trees that have been strangled, girdled or otherwise abused can lead naturally to regular Plant Health Care (PHC) monitoring for the entire property."
 
Bad Advice

I think you may be getting a little bad advice for the 360 degree cable girdling situation that you're facing.

The best remedy in my opion is to take a sharp chisel and make 3 vertical cuts evenly spaced around the the girdling that completely severs the cable. Do not attempt to remove the cable at all period. That's all that needs to be done.

All this talk about a tree's ability to somehow jump a cable may be true for a very limited few species of trees, but is in my opinion untrue for the vast majority of tree species.

jomoco
 
treeseer said:
...
This from page 20 Nov 2006 TCI magazine:


Some researchers believe that circulation outside the tie can be restored as the tissues above and below the tie are compressed together. ...

This is to the point. It provides a little hope. The picture above is of the cable I was able to remove. The cable I could not remove is not visible at all. Even the point where it was (is) wrapped is barely distinguishable. Only where it exited the stem to go to the supported stem is is visible, and I cut that part off.
 
jomoco said:
I think you may be getting a little bad advice for the 360 degree cable girdling situation that you're facing.

The best remedy in my opion is to take a sharp chisel and make 3 vertical cuts evenly spaced around the the girdling that completely severs the cable. Do not attempt to remove the cable at all period. That's all that needs to be done.

All this talk about a tree's ability to somehow jump a cable may be true for a very limited few species of trees, but is in my opinion untrue for the vast majority of tree species.

jomoco

I don't know about bad advice so much as perhaps people were not reading or understanding my question. It sounds like you have read and understood, and I think your advice sounds wisest. Back up in the tree I go!
 
Someone installed a childs rope swing onto a large Jacaranda branch by tying it on all the way around the circumference nice and tight.

The "swallowing" wasn't even complete and the branch was around 75% dead with just the odd bit of green on the end, I had to cut the branch off.

I'm neither for saying it will or wont as it could be species dependent.

It would be good to get more details of examples.

I think from my exhausted memory on plant growth biology that the outer cells of the tree change over time. So phloem to zylem to heartwood and so on. So what can happen is the bark is the first guy to bridge across it, then the phloem which changes to and so on. Remember bridge grafting of girdled trees, the bark is the first in the equation.

So a tree grows outwards by changing the cells and the very new invented cells on the very most outer extremity are bark.

Atleast the wire is relatively small in dia for a bridge to occur.

I have ring barked trees with say a 2" gap and the fresh sap had run the gap, congeled, then callus bridged it and the whole show lived on, so fluidity is an aspect too as mentioned earlier.

Another way to see the vigor is the dia change above the wire. If the tree maintains pretty much the same dia and no swelling then you have a pretty good flow. If you were to see a big difference in the sizes of the stems then you know you have a backed up plumbing. :)

In that shot of you in the tree the stem is pretty much normal in dia growth above and below the wire.
 
A tree can survive a complete girdling cable, sometimes.

I think it depends on size, growth rates and how even the trunk and cable are. If the cable is under load then it's off centre, one side is pulled into the bark, the other has a gap. This allows the tree to overgrow one side, while maintaining the cambrium on the other 75% of the trunk inside the cable. As it grows further the cambrium outside the cable takes over. At any time there is still 2/3s of the cambrium intact. OK it might weaken the tree, and if conditions aren't prefect it might kill it. But it can and does happen. :)

Cheers

Ian
 
jomoco said:
Do not attempt to remove the cable at all period.
Why not?:
a tree's ability to somehow jump a cable may be true for a very limited few species of trees, but is in my opinion untrue for the vast majority of tree species.
What is your opinion based on?
 
Answers to your two questions

treeseer said:
Why not?:
What is your opinion based on?


Question 1 : Because you will do far more damage to the all important cambium layer of the tree trying to remove a sunken cable.


Question 2 : Dead girdled trees


jomoco
 

Latest posts

Back
Top