converted to filing over grinding

[flatpikr]

Vote for the grinder

GRINDER. I now give out my files to trick-or-treaters who show up at my door step dressed up like loggers. Files are merely a stepping stone to the grinder. I'm speaking in half truths of course. Too many factors here- soft wood, hard wood, dirty bark, power of saw running the chain. For me and my green juniper/cedar- a bench grinder and semi chisel is the ticket. Besides, I like all power tools, not just chainsaws. GRINDER.

 

[biggenius29]

GRINDER. I now give out my files to treak-or-treaters who show up at my door step dressed up like loggers. .

Wow, I need to live where you live :greenchainsaw: that would be cool

 

[spankrz]

i love my grinder, i just take enough off so that the whole tooth gets a nice edge. i suspect the people who really bag on grinders either do not get the entire tooth. or they go to the dealer and in an effort to sell more chains he grinds off half the tooth.

you dont have to get the whole tooth, you only have to have a razor edge on the top plate and on the corner where the top and side plates meet. the corner is what pulls the chip. part of the reason square file chains are faster is the corner has a steeper angle on the inside, and it is enabled to pull a larger chip.

 

[husky455rancher]

ok ill have to try that next time i have some chains to sharpen. i usually let em pile up for a while. then ill go hit the grinder for a half hour or so depending how many i have.

 

[husky455rancher]

The few guys I know who "bag" on grinders can file a chain to the point it will mop the floor with a ground chain or a new one. Just an observation

im sure people can file chains to out cut a new chain or a chain fresh off the grinder. people spend serious time on race chains so yes it can be done. but for what i do with it i dont wanna be bothered. i just bring multiple chains with me all the time. actually most ill do is swap one chain then if i get into the dirt or something ill just grab another saw lol. benifits of cad i guess lol.

 

[moose42]

I have been round fileing by had for years and I am very happy with the results. I am square fileing and am doing well with that.I have to round file the saws at work because not all the guys can square file. Pluss when you are out on the fireline square chain dulls quickly. I like to take my time with my saw, it relaxes me and helps me forget all the crap I see at work. If I could get a good square grinder for a good price then I may think about it.

 

[flatpikr]

you dont have to get the whole tooth.

That's not always true-- there is a faction of us who are genuinely concerned with the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth. I better go to bad. Nite All.

 

[Orange Hill]

I like my hand files and use a standard cut file on a really dull chain and hone it with a fine file for a razor sharp finish. I usually touch up my chain every two tanks of fuel with the fine file to keep the chips...chips. But recently I hit some metal while cutting and squaring up the damaged teeth with a hand file sucked. A grinder may be finding a new home soon.

 

[MCW]

Square ground changes your perspective on all of it, chain sharpness, speed, smooth, ect. Try it, you'll never look back. And that's a fact.

Maybe in soft woods or racing but square ground chain doesn't last in hard or dirty woods. I've tried it, cuts like hell - for a short time only though...
Semi chisel for me, and there's no such thing as a "fact" when choosing one chain for all conditions

Once square has been touched by a grinder, you can just about forget by hand. It needs to be virgin LOL. The cutters are nearly impossible to hand file once blued by heat.

If you're getting blued cutters from a grinder then you need to find someone who knows what they're doing Is easy to do though if taking too much off in a rush.

Not bagging any people who file in particular but I've seen a lot of people who have forgotten what a sharp chain is like (not including some of the fancy file guides around). They hand file a chain, it feels better than when it was blunt 5 minutes previously, and they think they've got "that filing thing" all worked out. Having a chain sales/sharpening business on the side I've seen plenty of hand filed chains by people who "know" what they're doing. Because they cut small diameter wood and it throws a few chips out thats all they care about. If only I'd taken photos of some of these chains! I'd presume a few guys on here that sharpen chains for a business would back me up. Race chains aside I doubt that 90% of hand filed chains would be anywhere near the consistency of what a grinder can put out. I'd like to know what the pro loggers do - I'm sure a lot of them use grinders every few filings.

 

[huskystihl]

Just a couple things I learned from a lifetime filer/ pro, being my dad. He is one of the best around at hand filing a cutter to the point ya don't even wannna touch it without gloves, yet every sunday we would grab a 12 pack and throw each and every chain on the stihl grinder just to sqare everything up and get the rakers exact. Monday at the first tank the hand file came out. No doubt the file would make the saw cut faster yet I still beleive evrything needs to be squared.

 

[Zodiac45]

I use my Speed Sharp(grinder) before I go out and hand file in the field. The key too a grinder is set up and a very light touch. You should never blue a tooth. If you are then your set up is wrong and your taking too much material. Just a light skim is all it takes. Same with a hand file. 3 easy strokes per tooth after a fuel/oil fill up.

 

[056kid]

i love my grinder, i just take enough off so that the whole tooth gets a nice edge. i suspect the people who really bag on grinders either do not get the entire tooth. or they go to the dealer and in an effort to sell more chains he grinds off half the tooth.

the purpose of filing is to recover the edge. provided you dident hit anything it takes like 2 to 4 licks to get that edge. i see people filing that file eatch tooth 6 or 8 times with both hands, whats the point.

proly the same deal with grinding. I had ACE hard ware do the chain on a little mcc when i was like 12 and they never touched the drag. The teeth where blue and had burrs hangin off them like fingernails.

 

[Burvol]

Maybe in soft woods or racing but square ground chain doesn't last in hard or dirty woods. I've tried it, cuts like hell - for a short time only though...
Semi chisel for me, and there's no such thing as a "fact" when choosing one chain for all conditions



If you're getting blued cutters from a grinder then you need to find someone who knows what they're doing Is easy to do though if taking too much off in a rush.

Not bagging any people who file in particular but I've seen a lot of people who have forgotten what a sharp chain is like (not including some of the fancy file guides around). They hand file a chain, it feels better than when it was blunt 5 minutes previously, and they think they've got "that filing thing" all worked out. Having a chain sales/sharpening business on the side I've seen plenty of hand filed chains by people who "know" what they're doing. Because they cut small diameter wood and it throws a few chips out thats all they care about. If only I'd taken photos of some of these chains! I'd presume a few guys on here that sharpen chains for a business would back me up. Race chains aside I doubt that 90% of hand filed chains would be anywhere near the consistency of what a grinder can put out. I'd like to know what the pro loggers do - I'm sure a lot of them use grinders every few filings.

I cut a ton of Maple and Oak with square, does just fine. You're probably on the skip bandwagon. Also, you might what to learn how to put different angles on your square for different cutting conditions and preformance. And yes, you can touch up a ground chain, but it's a complete waste of time when you get paid to run a powersaw and produce. And yes, no matter how little you grind out, it still blues the metal in the tooth, even if you can't see it. Any heat off a wheel turning, grinding out steel heats it to a point where it changes the compisition. You know it all so I am probably wasting my time though.

When it quits pulling hard, pull it off your saw and throw a new one on. You can do chain work at home, it's called "Have your **** together man."

I think you might want to learn a few things:

1. Learn to run your saw properly (ie, tip out of the dirt)
2. Rocks are bad for your chain
3.Knot clusters of different species are killers
4.Different wood and cleanliness can take differing angles on three of your ground surfaces.
5.Full comp all the way (IMHO)

PS- READ THE BROCHURE that comes with your square.....mate

 

[injun joe]

wow lots of stuff but on the tooth turning blue in welding school we were taught the colors that steel will turn when they reach a certain temp. it shouldnt do this until you have gotten that area up to 600 degrees but doing a simple touch of the grinder shouldnt get it this hot. how do you guys make sure there are no burrs when grinding i have tried many times and i always get burrs but when i start cutting it takes a few cuts for the chain to really start cutting i think the burrs get ripped off.

 

[indiansprings]

I like to hand file a stroke or two just to touch the chain up after the grinder, in the woods I don't mess with sharpening, I just put on one of the forty or fifty chains that stay sharp behind the truck seat just for that purpose, the dull chain goes in the to be sharpened box, when in the woods I want to maximize cutting time. Sharpening is done on bad weather days or at night,
I saw a guy chuck up a file in a die grinder, don't know how it cut, but I'm going to give it a try and compare it against the grinder, has anyone else tried it?

 

[MCW]

I cut a ton of Maple and Oak with square, does just fine. You're probably on the skip bandwagon. Also, you might what to learn how to put different angles on your square for different cutting conditions and preformance. And yes, you can touch up a ground chain, but it's a complete waste of time when you get paid to run a powersaw and produce. And yes, no matter how little you grind out, it still blues the metal in the tooth, even if you can't see it. Any heat off a wheel turning, grinding out steel heats it to a point where it changes the compisition. You know it all so I am probably wasting my time though.

When it quits pulling hard, pull it off your saw and throw a new one on. You can do chain work at home, it's called "Have your **** together man."

I think you might want to learn a few things:

1. Learn to run your saw properly (ie, tip out of the dirt)
2. Rocks are bad for your chain
3.Knot clusters of different species are killers
4.Different wood and cleanliness can take differing angles on three of your ground surfaces.
5.Full comp all the way (IMHO)

PS- READ THE BROCHURE that comes with your square.....mate

I think you've misunderstood me Burvol and apologies if I've come across as a know all. You seemed a bit "touchy" there
Are you saying that square ground chain will outlast semi chisel? Outcut yes but not outlast.
Of all the things you think I need to learn they're all pretty basic and sarcastic (sarcasm is funny!). I'm not sure if you can comprehend the conditions that we sometimes have to cut in out here. I've seen sparks coming out with some of the timber I've been cutting and its not from digging the bar tip into the dirt, or hitting rocks etc etc. Its just plain old dirty, Aussie hardwood. I'm not out cutting much green timber, I'm cutting hardwood logs/trees that may have been laying there for over a hundred years through countless dust storms, have dirt/termites up the centre etc etc. Our annual rainfall is about 10-11" so its pretty dry and dusty here. My comment on square was simply stating that square ground chain has a place, and its not in the conditions I cut in and I'm sure you could understand that. I rarely field sharpen and just swap the chain and grind it when time allows. I normally carry around 20 chains or more, depending on what type of day it will be and the size of the wood.
Other guys in Australia would back me up on this without me knowing it all. We're not all idiots here - if square ground chain was the best for Australian conditions we'd all be using it. I can assure you that all the loggers I've heard of out here don't use square, and thats straight from other dealers that supply them their chain.
I'm also sure that you're right regarding grinders bluing the cutters although we don't all have a microscope to see it. If somebody has commented on bluing cutters on a grinder then its been BAD, which is what I was getting at. I also don't have hours every night to meticulously hand file every tooth to within a micron of preffered specs.
I'm on the skip bandwagon but only on longer bars. I don't use it on bars under 25" (and I've never mentioned that I have). Even my 3120 won't pull a 36" non skip chain easily through most of the wood I've been cutting (dead hardwood). Or were you meant to say the semi chisel bandwagon, not skip?
P.S. I've just had a look at a few cutters off a grinder with a 10x hand lens - I've got with no evidence of bluing. "any heat" off a grinding wheel does not change the composition of metal. Of course heat is produced when small pieces of steel are "torn" from a cutter tooth - same goes for filing. A cheap grinder I once had spun at 7200rpm and it was a complete pig for bluing up cutters. The MAXX like I have (and other pro grinders) spin around 2850rpm and are a lot more user friendly.
P.P.S. The comment at the bottom of my obviously offensive post regarding filing was NOT aimed at you but I stand by it 100%. By the sound of it you're not in that 90% - congrats!

 

[Burvol]

I think you've misunderstood me Burvol and apologies if I've come across as a know all. You seemed a bit "touchy" there
Are you saying that square ground chain will outlast semi chisel? Outcut yes but not outlast.
Of all the things you think I need to learn they're all pretty basic and sarcastic (sarcasm is funny!). I'm not sure if you can comprehend the conditions that we sometimes have to cut in out here. I've seen sparks coming out with some of the timber I've been cutting and its not from digging the bar tip into the dirt, or hitting rocks etc etc. Its just plain old dirty, Aussie hardwood. I'm not out cutting much green timber, I'm cutting hardwood logs/trees that may have been laying there for over a hundred years through countless dust storms, have dirt/termites up the centre etc etc. Our annual rainfall is about 10-11" so its pretty dry and dusty here. My comment on square was simply stating that square ground chain has a place, and its not in the conditions I cut in and I'm sure you could understand that. I rarely field sharpen and just swap the chain and grind it when time allows. I normally carry around 20 chains or more, depending on what type of day it will be and the size of the wood.
Other guys in Australia would back me up on this without me knowing it all. We're not all idiots here - if square ground chain was the best for Australian conditions we'd all be using it. I can assure you that all the loggers I've heard of out here don't use square, and thats straight from other dealers that supply them their chain.
I'm also sure that you're right regarding grinders bluing the cutters although we don't all have a microscope to see it. If somebody has commented on bluing cutters on a grinder then its been BAD, which is what I was getting at. I also don't have hours every night to meticulously hand file every tooth to within a micron of preffered specs.
I'm on the skip bandwagon but only on longer bars. I don't use it on bars under 25" (and I've never mentioned that I have). Even my 3120 won't pull a 36" non skip chain easily through most of the wood I've been cutting (dead hardwood). Or were you meant to say the semi chisel bandwagon, not skip?
P.S. I've just had a look at a few cutters off a grinder with a 10x hand lens - I've got with no evidence of bluing. "any heat" off a grinding wheel does not change the composition of metal. Of course heat is produced when small pieces of steel are "torn" from a cutter tooth - same goes for filing. A cheap grinder I once had spun at 7200rpm and it was a complete pig for bluing up cutters. The MAXX like I have (and other pro grinders) spin around 2850rpm and are a lot more user friendly.
P.P.S. The comment at the bottom of my obviously offensive post regarding filing was NOT aimed at you but I stand by it 100%. By the sound of it you're not in that 90% - congrats!

You're in the complete opposite part of the world, of course your wood is going to be different, and I understand that. Yes, the rocks and tip in the dirt was a funny jab, I know your not dumb enough to do that.

Anyhow, the full comp square set up works great in American wood unless your cutting logs coated with dirt and crap, with no chain is made for anyway, really.

As far as the blueing, I know what your saying, but I really could be dumb enough to burn all the teeth off the chains I have to buy and still have a job with that same brain telling me how to fall timber.

A few ground chains I have tried to touch in the past were way harder than virgin chain. They didn't have to be burned or blued to be harder to file.

Filing is a waste of time in my opinion if you have a grinder. Just pull it off and put a freshy back on.


People can do what they want, and I am finding out I am better off not in 90% of the forums here.

 

[Burvol]

wow lots of stuff but on the tooth turning blue in welding school we were taught the colors that steel will turn when they reach a certain temp. it shouldnt do this until you have gotten that area up to 600 degrees but doing a simple touch of the grinder shouldnt get it this hot. how do you guys make sure there are no burrs when grinding i have tried many times and i always get burrs but when i start cutting it takes a few cuts for the chain to really start cutting i think the burrs get ripped off.

Touch some bark lightly. (Fir, Pine)

 

[flatpikr]

And yes, no matter how little you grind out, it still blues the metal in the tooth, even if you can't see it. Any heat off a wheel turning, grinding out steel heats it to a point where it changes the compisition.

I would like to know where you got that information. It's not that I don't believe it, I would just like to read it for myself. If it's something you can't see then you must be talking about a scientific metalurgic study of chain metallics.

 

[Burvol]

I would like to know where you got that information. It's not that I don't believe it, I would just like to read it for myself. If it's something you can't see then you must be talking about a scientific metalurgic study of chain metallics.

That's what I was taught when I first started grinding by a few guys, and I have noticed a big difference in fresh vs. touched by a grinder. Yes, you can still file, but it is not as easy as fresh chain. You should only have to lightly touch your cutters twice or so to get an edge back if the corners are not folded or fouled up. You can hear the difference in your grinding if you are hogging too much material out.