Coworkers, and the "free wood heat" theory.

[pennsywoodburnr]

Now I know I can't be the only one experiencing this. I work at a shipping company and within our building we have maybe a little over 60 employees. With myself included, there are probably 5 people that burn with wood full time during the winter. Most of them scrounge their wood like me as you can see pickup trucks occasionally in the parking lot loaded up with ash and oak. So the other day, I was talking with another coworker who doesn't heat with wood period, and he had himself convinced that every piece of wood I attained had absolutely NO WORK ATTACHED TO IT. The conversation went like this:
Him: hey, did you see all the wood in the back of so-n-so's truck the other day? What was that?
Me: White ash it looked like. He got a nice haul too, the bumper of his truck is almost dragging!
Him: Must be nice to have free heat. Every time my oil company fills up my tank it's close to a thousand dollars.
Me: Hold on a second here, there's no way in hell the wood I gathered was "free". There was time, energy, and money spent getting it.
Him: What do you mean?
Me: Well, I mean it in the sense that, even though it was laying there, it still wasn't "free".
Him: Yes it was! Did you pay a dime for it?
Me: For the wood? No. For everything leading up to the point where it's drying out back behind the house? Yes.
Him: But it was free! So you don't have to pay for oil, propane or anything else! So it was free, right? RIGHT???
(by this time I was starting to fume a little so I say)
Me: Listen, it's not "free" because I had to buy the chainsaws at one point in time to cut it up, the van to haul everything back, and the gas for both the saws and the van to keep everything running. On top of that, I spend my weekends finding wood nobody wants which takes time on my part. After I find it, I spend the rest of the weekend dealing with it. After it's cut, I have to lift it into the van, drive it back, sometimes multiple trips if it's a big pile and then unload it. After that I have to split it, which takes a good while as well since I only have my one splitting axe. After that, I have to load it up into my wheelbarrow to push around to the backside of the house. After that, I have to take it out and RESTACK it so it dries. On top of all that, I'm sweating, I stink like two stroke exhaust, I have bugs biting and flying all around me, and I'm getting tired. So while you're at home watching badly dubbed kung-fu movies, I'm out here doing that. So no, trust me when I say it's not "FREE"!

Anyone else got people at work like this? Or is it just me?

 

[showrguy]

it's just you !!

 

[Gologit]

Anyone else got people at work like this? Or is it just me?

I work with loggers. They understand. :msp_biggrin:

I have some inlaws though that think just like your co-workers.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Pretty common here. I also get the people who are "thinking" about going with a wood stove for their heating system. Usually live in town with no source of wood and NO concept the amount of work needed to get it. 9 times out of ten the feel I should "help a buddy out" and sell mine to them, and deliver, and stack, all for a 1/4 of the going rate. NOT going to happen. Just another product of the growing attitude of people that we all should share what we have with no invested time on their part. The government seems to go along with this anymore.

Another one that always amazes me is how people somehow think wood heat will be more efficient. Meaning, they are using way to much fuel and wood would be the way to go. BTU's are BTU"S. I tell people if your home is an energy hog before using wood, it'll be the same if not worse with wood.

Had one guy with a 3 story Brick farmhouse quiz me on wood. He had NO insulation and he was looking for a cheap way to go. Background on the guy he was about as lazy as they come so I asked if he had a source for wood, he said no. I asked if was planning on insulating the house he said no way to. I said build false walls on the inside and he could upgrade his electrics at the same time. Said no as he needed the space for his wife a TWO kids. He then asked the golden question, How much wood will I use and I asked him to total up the gallons last year he used. When he brought them in I said around 35 cord or hardwood. He then asked me if a truckload was around 10 cord! I showed him the below pic of 1 cord and he decided against it.

It's amazing to me how people pay someone to do manual labor and then pay for a membership to a gym, then complain about not having any money. You just feel like you're in the twilight zone sometimes.

 

[pennsywoodburnr]

Kevin, that truck of yours is dragging some serious ass!!! :msp_w00t:

 

[zogger]

Pretty common here. I also get the people who are "thinking" about going with a wood stove for their heating system. Usually live in town with no source of wood and NO concept the amount of work needed to get it. 9 times out of ten the feel I should "help a buddy out" and sell mine to them, and deliver, and stack, all for a 1/4 of the going rate. NOT going to happen. Just another product of the growing attitude of people that we all should share what we have with no invested time on their part. The government seems to go along with this anymore.

Another one that always amazes me is how people somehow think wood heat will be more efficient. Meaning, they are using way to much fuel and wood would be the way to go. BTU's are BTU"S. I tell people if your home is an energy hog before using wood, it'll be the same if not worse with wood.

Had one guy with a 3 story Brick farmhouse quiz me on wood. He had NO insulation and he was looking for a cheap way to go. Background on the guy he was about as lazy as they come so I asked if he had a source for wood, he said no. I asked if was planning on insulating the house he said no way to. I said build false walls on the inside and he could upgrade his electrics at the same time. Said no as he needed the space for his wife a TWO kids. He then asked the golden question, How much wood will I use and I asked him to total up the gallons last year he used. When he brought them in I said around 35 cord or hardwood. He then asked me if a truckload was around 10 cord! I showed him the below pic of 1 cord and he decided against it.

It's amazing to me how people pay someone to do manual labor and then pay for a membership to a gym, then complain about not having any money. You just feel like you're in the twilight zone sometimes.

Lack of, and under insulated buildings, bad windows and doors, etc, is the single largest energy problem we have, outside of transportation fuels. People just don't get it on insulation at all.

We have PLENTY of available energy sources, just the bulk of it is wasted. That keeps demand high and prices high. And that's it.

I wouldn't be as adamant about this, making a declarative statement like that, but after working on some super or near super insulated structures, it made me a believer.

Conservation and insulation gets a negative rep all the time from most people, commonly associated with statements like this "not worth it" "drill, baby drill" "it's all the (insert political persuasion/ethnic/socio economic/ regional dweller's..anyone who isn't them...) fault"! and etc. I have heard it both online and IRL so many times..lost count. A lot. High energy prices are ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Pay for proper insulation once, that's it, drop heating and cooling demands to maybe 1/5th of what it was previously (or less...), or, go with pitiful stock insulation that most places have, and pay through the nose, any fuel source you want to name, electric, natgas, fuel oil, propane, wood, forever, for heating and cooling. Payback or ROI is pretty much always "more" than any other "energy investment" upgrade, new furnace or ac unit, etc, as long as the person isn't totally boneheaded about the retrofit or upgrade. Just swapping around what energy source you use is hardly ever a long term solution if someone well and trully really WANTS to save money long term.

I am in that situation myself, not hypocritical about it, but I don't own here. The minute I can own here I will start retrofitting. This ancient leaky cabin just sucks for holding the heat in. It is the height of sharecropper 1800s construction. Only upgrades have been wiring and plumbing, and even those are..rather dismally done. I have had to work on them a lot, would almost like to just gut it and start from scratch rather than cobjob fix.

 

[stihl sawing]

Burning wood is NOT free but it is definitily a lot cheaper than burning gas. Unless you have CAD and have to buy a saw every week.

 

[ss~zoso~ss]

I hear ya man, TIME is the most valuable thing in life, not matter how much money you have, we all have a fixed amount of TIME.

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Lack of, and under insulated buildings, bad windows and doors, etc, is the single largest energy problem we have, outside of transportation fuels. People just don't get it on insulation at all.

We have PLENTY of available energy sources, just the bulk of it is wasted. That keeps demand high and prices high. And that's it.

I wouldn't be as adamant about this, making a declarative statement like that, but after working on some super or near super insulated structures, it made me a believer.

Conservation and insulation gets a negative rep all the time from most people, commonly associated with statements like this "not worth it" "drill, baby drill" "it's all the (insert political persuasion/ethnic/socio economic/ regional dweller's..anyone who isn't them...) fault"! and etc. I have heard it both online and IRL so many times..lost count. A lot. High energy prices are ALWAYS someone else's fault.

Pay for proper insulation once, that's it, drop heating and cooling demands to maybe 1/5th of what it was previously (or less...), or, go with pitiful stock insulation that most places have, and pay through the nose, any fuel source you want to name, electric, natgas, fuel oil, propane, wood, forever, for heating and cooling. Payback or ROI is pretty much always "more" than any other "energy investment" upgrade, new furnace or ac unit, etc, as long as the person isn't totally boneheaded about the retrofit or upgrade. Just swapping around what energy source you use is hardly ever a long term solution if someone well and trully really WANTS to save money long term.

I am in that situation myself, not hypocritical about it, but I don't own here. The minute I can own here I will start retrofitting. This ancient leaky cabin just sucks for holding the heat in. It is the height of sharecropper 1800s construction. Only upgrades have been wiring and plumbing, and even those are..rather dismally done. I have had to work on them a lot, would almost like to just gut it and start from scratch rather than cobjob fix.

I now live on our homeplace that has been in our family for over 100 years, 2 story farmhouse with full basement. Rock foundation with hewn beams. Bottom beam is 12" x 18", 10 inch walls first floor, 8 inch walls second floor. When my grandparents lived here they always had a parlor stove going and had the upstairs shut off. Oil furnace with baseboard but the house was always cold as I remember. If you went upstairs in the cold of winter you could see your breathe. Grandma always complained about how much the oil bill was and when I got older I asked if the house was ever insulated and she said it was but I knew some rooms weren't and the windows were bad.

Grandpa passed and grandma started with dementia so Mom and dad moved into the house. I was always the one who wanted the homeplace so I started fixing the heating system. I installed an OWB and a 36' X 50 garage with radiant floor heat, did the domestic hot water too. That first year it was online the house was better but still chilly at times. Burnt close to 30 cord of GOOD wood. I knew something had to be changed.

The next year the house redo was on. Spent ALL my free time from work doing it. It took dedication as I work loads of overtime but I do keep at it. Stripped on side of the house at a time and found what I had suspected. NO insulation anywhere. Trued the sides up, new windows, fully insulated the sidewalls and attic., foamed all the cracks around the windows, OSB on sidewalls, housewrap, then vinyl siding. The next year and 9 years since I have averaged around 13 cord AND the house is warm everywhere. I am a FIRM believer in it the results speak for themselves. Some say they can't afford to do it. I say you can't afford NOT to.


With the fuel my grandparents used I figured the costs on the COMPLETE new heating system would take 3 years to pay for itself. House redo, insulation and windows wise added another 1 -2 years. I'm on my 9th year now with it so it's just labor, saws and such now. The way I look at it is I try to put back some of the savings to make it all easier to do since it's paid for itself. I bought a MS192 and a MS660 over 2 years to replace my older ones. I made up a splitter to handle the big stuff so that's in line now as well. Who knows what is next but having the freed up funds is nice. Yes, I do have time invested in wood gathering but crazy me actually enjoys getting out . I get a lot of satisfaction out of it, more so than watching TV or playing video games. I guess I'm officially old school.

 

[slowp]

Foresters :coffee: understand. But 'ologists are another matter. The latter either buy it or chill if a power outage occurs.

 

[bert the turtle]

The easiest way to handle a jackass like that is to agree with him and encourage him to get a wood stove. That will clear up his misunderstandings a lot faster and easier than anything you could say.

And I agree with all the comments about building a well insulated house. I've got 6 inches of pulyurethane in the walls and 12 inches of polystyrene in the roof of my new place. And triple pane windows. I can't wait to move in!

 

[dakotalawdog]

A couple of my co workers offer to come help me cut or split wood. So when I tell them to come by and offer a load of say, walnut (which we have coming out of our ears) for their help - they say something like they were looking for oak or cherry, which is harder for us to come by.

As a 90% of my heat comes from wood guy, I explain that I burn just about everything my saw touches - unlike the city slickers like them who use their fireplace twice a tear - and when I get a some nice oak or cherry, I like to use it myself.

I'm offering "free wood" for a little help and usually you get a couple beers too When we are done but I guess some are pickier than others.

 

[CTYank]

Some years back, a co-worker found out that I couldn't burn, that coming winter, more than a third of a tri-axle load of wood I'd been working on; selling a third would pay for the load. So she said that I should just give the rest to her. Because it didn't cost me anything. Bucked and split of course. Interesting calculus.

IIRC I gave her the number of the logger and suggested that she get her plump rump busy putting up her own. You fill in the blanks.

It's not the po-folks that have a lock on "entitled."

 

[B Harrison]

I love the way walnut smells and burns. Your co workers also my just go off of what they read on the internet. They probably wouldn't want locust either.

 

[WoodChuck'r]

As soon as he said this....

Him: Must be nice to have free heat. Every time my oil company fills up my tank it's close to a thousand dollars.

You should've responded with something like "It's great actually. Thanks for acknowledging how much better my life is than yours, queer." then walk away laughing to yourself while telling others the story and chant praises about how funny you are.

One may suggest that this is not a professional or friendly response, but don't worry about that. With any luck this 'coworker' is a supervisor - in which case you'll get suspended for a week or two with pay so then you can venture off to get paid to receive more of that free firewood. Whilst on your short vacation be sure to make a post card of you standing knee deep in in a vast pile of cash with your free firewood, saws, and truck buried in money. Then send it to said coworker to thank him for helping you get that time off to make all of this possible. Send him a fruit basket with the postcard and $14.31 to help him pay for fuel for the next coming heating season.

 

[Fred Wright]

Yup I've known some coworkers like those over the years. They're the ones who'll say you're "homeless" because you're renting an apartment.

There's no dishonor in paying for firewood. But overall, it's not "free" just because one didn't have to pay for a blowdown or other scrounged source. Processing firewood, even for the weekend warrior who cuts on an adjacent woodlot costs money in equipment and time. But I guess a lot of people don't grasp that until they do it for themselves.

Talk is cheap. That's what separates the men from the boys. The boys talk, the men do.

For the sake of argument, let's say a propane user found an abandoned tank of propane. Would he consider it free fuel? Probably. But how's he gonna use the fuel if the tank isn't connected to his house?

He'd have to transport the tank somehow... get a loader or tractor to lift it, a truck to transport it, load the tank, drive it home, unload it and connect it. And there's the fuel for the truck and loader involved, too. The propane certainly wasn't free.

Nothing in life is truly free. Someone somewhere along the line pays.

 

[Ironworker]

That is why I don't scrounge, between gas for my truck, wear and tear and time spent to bring home about $40 worth of wood I'm better off getting a truckload of logs dropped off on my property.

 

[slowp]

Well, another way would be not to waste time at work discussing firewood. Instead, just out of the blue say, "How about those Mariners?"

Then get back to work!

 

[Tonyd56]

Well, another way would be not to waste time at work discussing firewood. Instead, just out of the blue say, "How about those Mariners?"

Then get back to work!

Or better yet, ask about a baseball team worth talking about. The reds are only two games back. :msp_biggrin:

 

[steved]

I have a neighbor who does this...thinks the wood I haul or the logs I have dropped are free. And then my sweat and gear to cut/split/stack it are free.

They just pulled their fireplace (which didn't require electric to run) and installed a small propane fireplace, because wood was too much work. Before they swapped it out, they wanted a "few pieces" of my stash...NO. After they swapped it out, they figured out the propane wouldn't keep up when it was cold...they always are impressed with how warm our house is...even when we have no electric.