Cut and chuck

[rawtree]

Did it again, 020 in the right hand, left hand holding the branch. I've done it a hundred times a week and for 28 years now. Well, thank your god for the metal watch band clasp. I think thats what kept it out of that big, fat tendon below my thumb. And, as terrible as it looks, it never hurts until later on. I always have to do a double take.

Just last week the new guy on the crew was watching me dismantle a tree and commented about the one hand on the saw, one hand on the branch technique. I told him that he is to do as I say and not as I do, ever and I really meant it. I mentioned that I had tryed to figure a way around it. Other than not doing it at all, I 've thought about having a chain mail type wrist guard designed to protect the tender flesh. I carry a 6 foot pole saw and have used the hook to hold the branch. Seemed ok but a bit fatiging with time. I also carry a throwing hook for moving tree to tree ( my main type of work is vista pruning on the down slope side of the house; throw in from the back deck and work my way down the mountain ) The hook can be thrown out to hold the branch from a stratigic crotch and so on.

I'd like to hear so possible ideas.

Bob W.

 

[treeclimber165]

I've used short rope loops or slings to choke on a limb and hold it while keeping my hand away from the limb and saw. Gonna have to use it more often after reading your story. I assume you are not climbing for a little while, anyway. Hope it heals up soon. :angel:

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Again, file in the for-what-it's-worth column

Following the "Do as I say, not as I do" method of training can get you into trouble if you ever have an accident. By nurturing a double standard, one of which is unsafe, you set the standard that sometimes the employees don't have to follow the rules. This can be interpreted as negligence.

Tom

 

[Tim Gardner]

I have to agree with brian on using a loop or sling but a lot of times I can just hinge the limb over put my saw down, tear the limb off and throw it.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

You are the fourth person in a year I know who has had a one hand saw incident. The rest were no injury kickbacks.

I know 2 other guys who say thier metal watch saved them from worse injuries.

the best way I know is to use a snap cut.

I've used slings to attach a branch to my belt ot another limb before cutting to. girth hitch them and connect them with a biner.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

John,

Do you think that watches should be listed as PPE now

Another variation on the sling drop is one that Tim Walsh illustrated in Arborist News a while ago. Choke a sling to the cut piece and to another limb or the spar. connect them with a biner. After the cut is made, the limb hangs and can be chucked without doing a one hander. Be sure to use a sturdy, locking biner.

Tom

 

[treeclimber165]

After reading this thread last night, I pulled out a short piece of lifeline and made up some loops with a locking clip on them. I made a 3'-4' loop and a 6' loop, ran out of spare clips. I don't have the money to buy bunches of 'biners at $15 each, so I make do with what I have and is ANSI approved. I think I will find many uses for these rope slings, I have been using old adjustable lanyards for several tasks but these loops should be more versatile and easier to use.

 

[Stumper]

3/8 nylon 3 strand makes cheap and handy slings/chokers for that sort of thing. (not too heavy on the belt either.)

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i do like Tom said, or hold sling over another branch like a short rig if in a position where i would have to cross my hands. If i am throwing R., i might put one on and pull R. constantly as i cut with L., when it releases my hand, sling, and load 'pop' right as they are sprung to do.

Also, might try to walk braanch down to a point of failure, then finish with handsaw.

P.S. Can't wait till this tool salesman gets back from his annual trip, i buy steel, screwlock 'biners from him @ $5! Been using/ abusing em for 8 years. Of course at that price i have downgraded and given away a few just to turn them over and have a batch of new ones.

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by Stumper
3/8 nylon 3 strand makes cheap and handy slings/chokers for that sort of thing. (not too heavy on the belt either.)

3-strand this and that. You love the stuff, don't you! To me, it looks more difficult to splice 3-strand than 16-strand rope. I need to learn to splice that because it certainly is useful, but it looks difficult? Who has spliced both kinds? What's the difficulty gradient?

Nickrosis

 

[geofore]

splice it

Nick,
Sampson has the splices on their website with pictures if you want to follow up on the splices with step-by-step pictures of what to do, you can download them. Toss has them in his books. The info is out there and most of the rope companies will give you the info. Don't know who's rope you use but is is a good bet the rope company will have the splice info to send you. Do you have a set of fids? Practice will pay off. Do you trust your own work? Splice a few then test them till they break if you want to see what they will hold, it will give you an idea of how your splices hold up.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think that splicing 16 strand is for pro rope splicers. i think that splicing 3strand is something that perhaps any serious knot tyer should look into and experieence to relate back to all knots; it is fairly ez.

i like loop runners for super strong, compact slings.

 

[Tim Gardner]

Ken, why not use double braid? It is so easy to splice and does not increase the rope dia. as much as three strand. There are so many good double braids out there to choose from depending on your aplication.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Good angle Tim; but for me i liked the way 3 strand rode and released a host line in lifeline friction hitch better than doublebraid or even 12 or16 strand. Now, that was for taut line/blakes hitch when i tried all this. In fact, i got good results out of a 3 strand 5/8" hardlay, as i queried about thicker (longer life, more positive about not 'burning one out' on the way down), stronger 3 strand. Also, testing my ideas that part of the diffrence in the way the 3 strand grabbed a host line was in the fact that not all of the 3 strand layed on the host line inside the 'footprint' of their mating. It was fine as long as you were particular about setting the knot well; so i went on with new respect for the basic Tie, Dress, Set and added inspect. So, anyway, that is how i chose 3 strand, but at a time when i used a diffrent style knotting. Seems, i had some cover problems with friction hitch w/dbl. braid.

i'm not recomending anyone try 5/8" like that, theory is to use the diameter of the host line (in med. lay lines or softer), or less for positive grip on said host.

For the slings i prefer the looprunners. They do a lot for 'folding as flat as a hankerchief', colored, webbing being flat distorts less on anchors; therefore maintains more strength, lighter, something like 6600# test in straight leg etc. i carry 4-8 depending on tree, one of which is a retired lifeline redirect. Having a 'biner pre-loaded into 'em; makes em ez to whip out throw around an out of reach (by few feet) point (that could just be a more desirable positon leverwise on same load). i'm very particular on what point i hitch something off, the balance and the leverage on the load that that dictates, and how it can be adjusted favoroubly.

The uses for loop runners are only limited by your imagination, after 8 years or so, i'm still coming up with ways that existed all of the time.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Kenny's living in the past, wishing he could smell mildewy hemp again.

Hollow braid is the best thing for splicing slings. not even 20 min gets me a nive I&I.

 

[Nickrosis]

Re: splice it

Originally posted by geofore
Do you trust your own work? Splice a few then test them till they break if you want to see what they will hold, it will give you an idea of how your splices hold up.

I've never owned 3-strand rope! I'll have to get ahold of that stuff. I splice my 16-strand rope and put my life on it all the time - I'm more comfortable on my own splice knowing that it was made properly and carefully. After seeing the Yale employees splice rope, though, it made me feel better with their rope....not that I wasn't going to climb on it until I saw it done....

I'll let you know how my 3-strand experiment works!

Nickrosis

 

[Stumper]

Nick, In one sense 3 strand is more complicated than splicing hollow/kernmantle braids. On the other hand it is really hard to mess up-even if you put a tuck in the wrong place strength isn't unduly compromised. If you look at old books (Manila era) you will find 3 tuck short splices described-Nylon and polyester require 5 tucks for security. Polypropylene/polyethylene are even slicker -I find 6 tucks works well with poly.

 

[geofore]

splice

Nick,
I started with three strand Manila and hemp years ago and was taught to use 5-7 for saftey even though it said 3 was okay. Then it was nylon now it is 12 strand and 16 strand nylon and poly which is a whole different weave with a whole different splice. Old dog / New tricks. I usually replace ropes every two years. Cut up the old or you'll find the kids using it for rope swings or some nut dragging out of the trash to use it. If you don't think the rope is good, cut it so no one else uses it.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Nyeaahhhhhhhhh, i don't use 3 strand for slings; use loop runners for standard use; spanset for bigger stuff, whoopie fpr fine addjustable.

Might have to try hollowbraid.

Like 3 strand for tails, use it for lanyards too, every once in a while for some customized experiment stuff. i go with 4 tucks, and bigger 'buttons' melted on end; that physically can't pull thru as final lock. Especially if ya set each layer, and final layer well. Makes nice, short, compact flair especially on eye to eye tail for distall/schwab's. Cut, when done with use. Might not take 20min. Use correct type for purpose.

 

[Stumper]

Spydy, It probably can't top a whoopie for quick adjustment but fo years I've slung blocks on adjustable 3 strand slings. I make them up w/same config as the old adjustable lanyard-small eye on one end larger eye on other end prusikked onto itself. When I get into small spars I just double wrap though the loop(in effect prusiking onto the spar.) i love messing with rope