Decisions, decisions

[turnkey4099]

Off on a 60 mile round trip to take my Husky 51 in for some serious tuning (I hope that is all!) It quit on me when I was 12 ft up on a ladder today. On the trip I got to thinking of feeding my CAD.

Looking at moving up to a bigger saw from the 310. Eyeing the 361 or 441. I would consider Husky but no dealer in reasonable distance.

361 can (per dealer) run a 28" skip tooth - yes, I know that it would require a bit of 'babying'.

441 - Longer bar, more power, more weight.

I occasionally need a saw with a longer bar - currently I am stuck with falling a tree somehow that measures over 4 foot diameter. I don't think even a 28" bar will reach but may go remeasure tomorrow. The guy who has a 32" bar and said he would fall it for me almost a year ago keeps pleading 'too busy' - I think he just won't come out and say no.

Most of my work would be an easy job for the 361 and 20" bar. Already have 25" bar/chain that would fit, 28" would probably do for anything I will run into excpet possibly that tree.

Somehow hefting around a 441/20" for most of my cutting does not appeal.

Looks like I am talking myself into 361 but dayum that 441 looks good!

Harry K

 

[beerman6]

go big or go home?

 

[PA Plumber]

From the looks of some of the Locust you're getting into, I think you would actually enjoy the 441.

I have run the 361 and it does not hold a candle to the 441.

With the bigger saw; less cutting time and less fuel. In bigger wood, I don't feel nearly as worn out cutting a truckload of firewood with the 441 as I do with the 026.

Good luck, this is a decision between you and 500 AS members.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

If you can afford the 441, go for it. You won't like a stock 361 with a 28" bar in Locust.

Ian

 

[Dennis_Peacock]

go big or go home?

Well....that one came early....but for sure expected. :greenchainsaw:

I have a 361 and really like it a lot....but for what you're cutting? The 441 would be a better fit. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[J.W Younger]

Well....that one came early....but for sure expected. :greenchainsaw:

I have a 361 and really like it a lot....but for what you're cutting? The 441 would be a better fit. Just thinking out loud here.

cut some dead standing ash, red oak and elm today just to ck out how my 461 ran after carb rebuild. after running a 50cc all year this thing was awesome. neve ran a 441 but i hear the're nice.

 

[wdchuck]

A 70cc saw is nice when you need it, regardless of manufacturer.
If it is at all an option, check out the Dolmar 7900, very comfortable to use.
A Jonsred 2171 or its equivalant is also very comfortable to use.

The 361 is a very capable saw, but, you may be better served by 70cc and two bars to fit the wood you are cutting.

Have not tried a 441, since my 460 takes care of cutting/milling needs just fine, and will pull a 32" bar, full comp chisel, through 30" dry oak quite nicely. When the extra weight of this class saw gets tiring, I go to my 028 for the long haul, fun to use, and has dropped a 24" tree with the 16" bar.

Whatever you get,post a pic, and enjoy it.

 

[Dok]

I love 70cc saws but I would be lost without a 50cc with a short bar (16"). The oaks I cut there is no way around wading into the limbs and clearing the area. That's hard to do with a big saw and 24" or longer bar. So, for one saw to do it all, maybe a 361 would be a good compromise. I know you will love a 441, but you may also need a small saw to compliment it.
Dok

 

[ray benson]

361 has .4 hp more than your 310 but it is a little lighter. Both 59cc. Maybe stihl will let you demo a 361 and 441?

 

[windthrown]

If you are only going to cut the occasional very large tree, I would get a 361. I have had a 440 and a 460, and while they do cut faster (high grin factor), they suck gas and are spendy and heavier. I considered getting a 441 for the smooth factor, but for my needs I decided using the 361 with a longer 25 inch bar, which is now my bar of choice on that saw. I have dropped some 4 foot trees with that saw and bar. Just have to cut from both sides.

My second 361 came with a 28 inch bar, full comp. I would not have bought a bar that long for it, but it was on the saw. I have run it and it will drive that bar with that chain (RM full comp). If you take it easy it will cut, but the oiler does not keep up. You can put a 460 high output oiler piston and bolt into the 361 though. Then you can run up to a 32 inch bar on it and keep it oiled (I am not saying it will run a 32 inch bar very well). I see a LOT of 361s with 28 inch bars out here in the long bar wild west. Even at the dealers. But they need more oil capacity than stock for that length bar. I also run the 361 with a 16 or 18 inch bar with an 8 pin rim, and get better revs and faster cuts. I use the stock 7 pin rim on the longer bars.

That said, a 361 will certainly not cut as fast as a 441. A 441 has a full HP more, with about 25% more power. The issues with the 441 are the rocking horse look, the strato charged carb (read; they suck at altitude and they cannot be modded much), and they are significantly higher in price than the 361. Good points are a lot more power, smooth, and they sip gas. They will also be around after the EPA crap goes into effect in 2010. Even the 361 will be off the shelf when the new laws take effect in the US.

The biggest factor of either the 361 or the 441 over the 310 that you have is the far far lower vibration. I am far less tired after using a 361 for several hours than using the 290 for the same length of time. The 310 would make a great backup saw for the 361 or the 441, and the 3/8 inch bars and chains are directly swappable.

 

[turnkey4099]

361 has .4 hp more than your 310 but it is a little lighter. Both 59cc. Maybe stihl will let you demo a 361 and 441?

Hmmm...I thought the 361 would be farther up the scale than that. Now I am leaning to the 441. Will take more 'sweet talk' I am afraid.

Harry K

 

[windthrown]

310 compared to...

The MS 361... or the MS 441
10% more power... or 37% more power...
5% less weight... or 12% more weight...
$600 clams... or $800 clams with B&C...
Smooth runner... or smooth runner...
Muffler moddable... or not really moddable...
Thin type saw... or fat wide body saw...
Will run 25 inch bar... or will run 32 inch bar...
3/4 wrap available... or 3/4 wrap available...
Cures cancer... or cures... well, I dunno.

 

[Haywire Haywood]

I had a long post written up defending the 70cc, but in the writing, I realized that the 361 I had didn't make it through 5 or 6 tanks before I sent it off to be ported. I never found out what it would do stock with a muffler mod. While initially happy with the port, I figured out later while running other saws at GTGs that it wasn't ported for much performance. I had it set up with skip on a 24" bar and the only thing I had it buried in was cherry, which it did cut fine. Now cherry isn't oak, and it certainly isn't hickory.

The question to ask yourself is this: How often are you really going to need a bar longer than 20"?

If just once in a great while, then a 60cc saw with a muffler mod will probably do fine. If you find yourself in 24" hardwood more than 10% of the time then step up.

JMO,
Ian

 

[J.W Younger]

I had a long post written up defending the 70cc, but in the writing, I realized that the 361 I had didn't make it through 5 or 6 tanks before I sent it off to be ported. I never found out what it would do stock with a muffler mod. While initially happy with the port, I figured out later while running other saws at GTGs that it wasn't ported for much performance. I had it set up with skip on a 24" bar and the only thing I had it buried in was cherry, which it did cut fine. Now cherry isn't oak, and it certainly isn't hickory.

The question to ask yourself is this: How often are you really going to need a bar longer than 20"?

If just once in a great while, then a 60cc saw with a muffler mod will probably do fine. If you find yourself in 24" hardwood more than 10% of the time then step up.

JMO,
Ian

good post. got me thinking I may need a 361. Ya recon I may be catching that CAD thing?

 

[saxman]

well as for the choice between the 361 and 441, I have both and they are great saws, the muffler is modded on the 361. I use the 361 most of the time but when I need it the 441 is wonderful to have. I also put an 8 pin sprocket and a 20" bar on the 441 and it cuts crazy fast. I guess I would go for the 441, as for the "sweet talk", well you gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[turnkey4099]

From the looks of some of the Locust you're getting into, I think you would actually enjoy the 441.

I have run the 361 and it does not hold a candle to the 441.

With the bigger saw; less cutting time and less fuel. In bigger wood, I don't feel nearly as worn out cutting a truckload of firewood with the 441 as I do with the 026.

Good luck, this is a decision between you and 500 AS members.

I just wish I was getting into some of that locust. So far I am hitting about 1 in 10 tries. Last one I wrote a letter and never got an answer. That one would provide cutting for a couple years and it desperately needs cutting - a total mess of an abandoned farmstead.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

well as for the choice between the 361 and 441, I have both and they are great saws, the muffler is modded on the 361. I use the 361 most of the time but when I need it the 441 is wonderful to have. I also put an 8 pin sprocket and a 20" bar on the 441 and it cuts crazy fast. I guess I would go for the 441, as for the "sweet talk", well you gotta do what you gotta do.

Negotiations opened this morning. Made it as far as she saying 'maybe as a Xmas present'. I slid right on by the 'how much will it cost?" bit. That will come up on the next session .

I keep wavering between the 361 and 441. The 441 would be way overkill except for the odd tree such as the current problem:

That's my 310 with a 25" bar Tree is a Willow and I suspect is rotten in the center with a ring of good wood.
Been promising the farmer that I would get it out of his way for 3 years now. Called him last week and he wants it out so bad he said it was okay to fall it and leave lay untill mid July (too wet to get in there before then with a truck) even it it ends up in his planted crop.

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

It's a done deal. Cleared to get the 361. I just returned from measuring that thing. 13'6" around above that knob where I cut the stem off on the left. Makes 4.3' diameter and a 28" bar will do the job. Of course the falling cut will have to be below the knob (also one on the far side). I will just trim the knobs off (and probably debark the cut area) making it doable.



Glad I made the trip. All the leaves down and I could see that it _will_ fall out to the right and keep 90% of the crap out of his field. Now all I have to do is fight off the urge to pick up the saw on Wed and fall that thing now instead of next July.

More decisions. Trade the 310 in on the 361 or keep it? If I keep it I will need to buy a 20" and a 28" for the 361 (or keep swapping the 20" between 310/361)

Probably depend on what the prognosis is on that Husky 51.

Harry K

 

[Zodiac45]

Harry, Just a little FYI but you do know that you don't need the bar too be long enough too go through the tree too fell it? On occasion when I've had a tree that was larger than the bar I had, I've just used the "cutting round the back" method with wedges. In particular, if the truck is hollow, it's even better too use a smaller bar. I had a hollow trunked eastern larch too fell. I used my 51 with an 18" and the tree was 28" at least. After cutting the face (from both sides), I simply walked (sawed) around the back side stopping every 45 degrees or so too tap a wedge in (used 3). You can also do the backcut from each side leaving some wood in the middle or not, wedge each side after the cut then cut the middle strip out if you've left some.

If you'd like I have a graphic of this in a pdf file. For some reason I couldn't copy the pix too this message, but I'd be happy too send you the file in an e-mail.

 

[windthrown]

Maybe keep the 310 for a while and see how it goes. You can always sell it later. I would not trade it in, you will not get as much as you can on AS or CL.

As for cutting a hollow trunk willow, willows are hard trees to cut. Lots of crud, sand and dirt in the bark. Tough wood for cutting, and pretty useless as firewood. I would use an RM (semi-chisel) chain that will stay sharp longer. Also you do not need a 28 inch bar for a center rotted tree. I have cut many large 3-4 foot center-rotted box elders and willows with a 25 inch bar. I should have taken pictures of some of them. The ex-GF recommended it, but I did not want to go to the house to get the camera.

Anyway, cut a notch face cut and that will let you know if the trunk is hollow or not. If hollow, back cut with wedges following around on both sides of the good-wood 'ring', alternating sides toward the notch. Even if it is not completely hollow a 'three sweep' back cut will get you far enough in to cut from the sides and get to a good hinge that you can drop with wedges, or if there is a good lean or lop-sided canopy it will probbaly drop by itself.

Added: Opps, looks like Zodiac already recommend the above Also, if you have a shorter bar than you need, you can cut away the bark vertically from either side for 3-4 inches and get the saw a lot deeper into the heartwood.