Diesels or gas in a 3/4 ton

Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Fuzly

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
453
Reaction score
106
Location
Northeastern Wisconsin
Just reading the diesel/gasser thread and it got me thinking. I've been seriously considering a 3/4 ton pickup to haul all my gear, pull the ATV trailer, plow snow, get a bigger trailer, etc.

I've had a couple people tell me to stay away from the diesel unless "you really need it," which I take to mean pulling a big gooseneck or travel trailer.

One consideration is cold weather use. Some say it's a non-issue with the newer trucks. Others have told me they just don't run well in very cold temps, even if kept in a garage. What do you guys think?

Maintenance costs/fuel costs/initial purchase price are other considerations, as well.

Can a gas V8 powered truck do a good job pulling a big trailer, say a gooseneck with a piece of equipment on it?

I know a lot of you work your trucks hard, so your advice is appreciated.
 
I've got a F-250 with the 7.3 in it and I love it. They take some getting used to, but once you do , you'll never go back to a gas burner. Diesel Is the only way to go if you are hauling any kind of trailer very much. IMO a gas burner will never pull a goose neck with a piece of equipment sufficiently . I've burnt out a few trying. Now a diesel is more expensive to run and repair. And the cost is more up front. But worth every penny.
 
Diesel.

Gas isn't even in the same ballpark. Seriously, get a diesel and you'll NEVER look back :)
 
Last edited:
Furthermore...

Try to get an extra 150 hp and 350 torq at the real wheels out of a gas motor for $600 bucks with a simple plug and play programmer...




:jawdrop:
 
Dodge v10 could pull some kind of load at a cost of 3 to 5 mpg.:dizzy: Get a diesel if you want an engine that does not know weather its pulling a heavy load or no load. MPG stays about the same with heavy load or no load avg 18mpg with my cummins.
 
If your going to be pulling/hualing something once or twice a month, then i'd prolly stick with a gasser. If your pulling once of twice a week, get a diesel. The new trucks don't have much of a problem starting in the cold, unless it's like -5 out. The biggest problem i've seen with cold weather starts is driver error. You always want to let your glow plugs cycle through, even if the engine is warm. If you drive 10 min. to work everyday, stay away from a diesel, they hate short trips. If you maintain a diesel, you can easily get 250,000 miles out of it. A gas jobby would be almost junk be then, if it made it that far.
 
I have a 7.3 powerstroke diesel & pull with it almost everyday. I usually get 14 mpg and that is with a dually 4x4. I would consider a gasser if i rarely pulled a trailer.
 
Diesel.

Gas isn't even in the same ballpark. Seriously, get a diesel and you'll NEVER look back :)

This my friend is the truth. I've been pro-diesel for 6 years now, and will never own another gas-engined truck!

Diesels work fine in the cold, given time to Warm up, and you run a Winter Cover when it's COLD outside. They also have block heaters which work well to get you warmed up quicker on those really cold days, but as mentioned above - short trips in cold weather aren't good for a diesel, the engine needs to hit
operating temp and run for a bit to ensure the fuel is being burned completely.

Fuzly, you should also check out www.kennedydiesel.com and read up on John Kennedy's trucks. He sells performance stuff for all diesels. He's located in Royal Wisconsin. If you're close, go by there and see if John will let you ride in one of his rigs for a "Test Drive" :)
 
Last edited:
New oil and low sulfur fuel

The 2008 diesel's need low sulfur (15 ppm) fuel and SM/CJ (Low Emission) motor oil. The new oil has the anti wear additives removed form the oil to extend cat life. You must run the new oil and low sulfur fuel in the 2008 diesels.

The SM/CJ low Emission oil is a problem for all older engines because of potential cam and lifter wear. That means everything from lawn mowers, and chippers to any pre roller lifter car/truck engine. I added and article on the new oil.

“BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY” IN NEW ENGINE OILS ?
Published and Distributed by:
DF Sales & Marketing

Editorial
DANGER—DANGER—DANGER
MUST READ COMPLETELY !

Now that I have your attention, please bear with me…...This may seem to be redundant, but anything worth repeating, is worth repeating twice as the old saying goes.
This newsletter is going to cover a recently discovered subject matter of the very most importance to everyone who owns vehicles of any kind, be it, automotive, trucking, construction equipment, etc. The results are in with very dismaying reports concerning the newest API engine oil specifications, SM / CJ-4.
To put it very bluntly and to the point, the newest specifications for both gas and diesel have not been satisfactory for use in engines prior to 2007.
In the past, when engine oils changed formulation to meet the most up-to-date specs, those formulas proved to be what is known in the industry as “backward compatible.” This simply means that the year in which the oil met the new specs and took effect for the new rating, it was perfectly alright for use in older vehicles. To my knowledge, at least over the past 22 years, there has never been a problem with oil meeting backward compatible status.
The latest API specification, SM/CJ-4 does not seem to be working out to be backward compatible, even though we have been given assurances that it would be. In a nutshell, this very well may cost the owners millions upon millions of dollars due to premature wear in both gasoline and diesel engines.
The following will show you why the concern:
GASOLINE SERVICE RATING “SM”
The newest gasoline engine oil service classification is API: “SM.” One of the primary reasons why the EPA wanted to introduce this requirement was the concern that for engines which burned a little oil, the ZDDP (zincdialkylditiophosphate), was poisoning catalytic converters.
The major automotive manufacturers at first stated that there was no bona fide data to confirm this theory, and even today, it is still debatable. The government calls for catalytic converters to have a minimum useful life of 120,000 miles, most catalytic converters have far surpassed that mileage in use without having an abnormal amount of failures due to the so-called “poisoning.”
ZDDP is the major anti-wear additive in engine oil, it has been used for decades, it is relatively inexpensive, yet very effective. With the lowering of ZDDP in some oils, almost nothing in some other oils due to “additive drop-out conditions” (primarily in semi-synthetic and some synthetic oils), a devastating effect has occurred.
The first casualties of low-to-no ZDDP took place in high-performance gasoline and methanol fueled engines. One case which I know of “flattened” three camshafts within a two-month period in a race car situation.
Excessive valve train wear has also been experienced with this oil.
Independent engine builders recognized the problem almost immediately and started recommending to the industries they serve to use a “high-quality” oil with zinc in it for anti-wear protection.
Most all of the majors, including those who produce private label engine oil for companies, such as for auto parts stores have changed their formulations to meet SM. You will see it on the shelves at the stores, and from the oil jobbers.
DIESEL SERVICE RATING “CJ-4”
The newest diesel engine oil service classification is API: “CJ-4,” sometimes just referred to as “CJ.” The major cause of change for this rating was to meet the 2007 Low-Emission Diesel Engines specifications. The concern once again was due to exhaust emissions. It had been determined that on engines using a DPF (diesel particulate filter), it would be plugged up by the heavy metals in the additive package of the engine oils which were graded up to CI-4 plus. The newer diesel emissions systems can reach temperatures as high as 1,600º F.
Heavy metal additives destroy the system. Therefore any engine oil prior to CJ- 4 which is not formulated for these engines should not be used.
According to the new specs for CJ-4, the oil must contain lower levels of ZDDP, Calcium and Phosphorous, it must also not have a TBN any higher than 9. TBN is a measure of the oil’s alkaline reserve, which is used for fighting off the damaging effects of acid.
Diesel oils which are formulated for “Low-Emission Engines” when used in pre-2007 engines has been reported as having premature bearing wear in as little as 10,000 miles. First showing up on the Ford Power Stroke series 6.0 & 7.3 liter, GM’s Duramax, and Dodge / Cummins 5.9 liter engines. Commercial truck and heavy equipment application reports have not yet come in, but if the precursor is any indication, it doesn’t look good.
Furthermore, if any type of oil additive is used to help the friction modification of these oils, including molybdenum disulfide , they will also poison the system in diesel applications.
THE BAD NEWS IS:
Hopefully, you will realize the gravity of this situation. If you are involved in the servicing of pre 2007 automobiles, trucks or other equipment, you should continue to use engine oil which is NOT rated “SM/ CJ-4.” More than likely it can be the cause of premature wear in those pre- 2007 engines. Actually, as far as engine wear is concerned, it could in fact also cause more wear in the 2007 engines as well, but you increase the possibility of catalytic converter problems when the engine gets to the point in which it starts using a little oil if you use a pre– SM grade. Personally, I would think this to be minimal, and would rather replace a catalytic converter than an engine.
Many engine builders when first realizing the problem with wear in low ZDDP oils started recommending the use of a “good diesel oil” in gasoline engines. This recommendation cannot be given any longer unless the diesel specification is CI-4 or previous, and has a full additive package. If the oil is rated SM/CJ, you donot have a full additive package for the older engines. Generally if you see an oil with a label stating “For Low-Emission Engines”, it will NOT have a full additive package which gives the full protection needed for older engines.
You have now heard the bad news about engine oil, as the old saying goes “A word to the wise is sufficient.”
THE GOOD NEWS IS:
A completely unprecedented decision concerning new engine oil specifications by Southwestern Petroleum Corporation with their SWEPCO brand 306 Supreme Formula Engine Oil has been made. Usually in the past when a specification rating went into effect, they have been right in there with the new specs and introduced any changes in formulation into the product when it was time to do so. However, in this case, when the specs went into effect last October, they had held back on re-formulating to meet them.
I am very pleased to inform our valued customers and prospects that we will continue to provide swepco 306 Supreme Formula Engine Oil with a full-bodied additive package, rated at SL/CI-4 Plus formula in the following weights: 10W30, 15W40 and 20W50. For engines requiring 5W30, it is rated SJ/CI-4. The TBN on
this oil is 10.3, vs. the newer 9.0 max for diesel. The detergent, dispersant and antiwear (zinc) levels are still higher than most other oils on the market rated SL/ CI-4.
SWEPCO is not going to introduce a SM/CJ product into the market until more testing has been completed and they are able to supply an oil which will surpass the needs of the specification without sacrificing the protection you have come to rely on with SWEPCO lubricants.
In any case, it will not be a reformulated “306” oil. The 306 will remain an SL/CI-4 for pre-2007 engines. ~~~~~~.
Ford Recalls Super Duty Trucks
Ford Motor Company is voluntarily recalling 37,400 Super Duty pickups, part of the automaker’s top-selling F-Series, after dealers reported flames coming from the trucks’ tailpipes. Bloomberg News reported.
The recall covers 2008-model Super Duty trucks with 6.4-liter diesel engines built by Navistar International Corp., according to Ford spokesman Dan Jarvis. About 8,400 of the trucks were sold, and 29,000 more remain on dealer lots.
Dealers won’t be able to sell the trucks until the pickups get a computer software update, and owners of recalled vehicles will bring them to dealerships for upgrades to be paid for my Ford, Jarvis said.
Ford received reports from dealers in Texas and Canada about tailpipe flames, Bloomberg said. The Texas incident caused a small grass fire.
Chrysler Recalls 86,000 Ram Trucks
Chrysler is recalling some 2006 Dodge Ram pickup trucks because their front wheel bearings may not have enough grease. The action includes as many as 86,333 of the pickups built between Nov. 7, 2005 and April 27,2006, the company told the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. The problem can causenoise and vibration that if not addressed could lead to a loss of control and a crash.
The recall effects Chrysler’s biggestselling model in the U.S. Dodge Ram pickups accounted for 364,177, or 17% of the 2.14 million cars and trucks they sold last year, Bloomberg said.




Article Date: Nov 27, 2007
Car Accociations: MINI,NEW_MINI
Hits: 179
 
It is well known in the "industry" and a lot of people are going to have trouble before they "know". So watch what type of oil that you use. The newer SM/CJ - LE oils are bad news for older engines and flat tappet engines. The additives that they took out have been there since the late 50's and made a big difference as anti wear additives.
 
This my friend is the truth. I've been pro-diesel for 6 years now, and will never own another gas-engined truck!

Diesels work fine in the cold, given time to Warm up, and you run a Winter Cover when it's COLD outside. They also have block heaters which work well to get you warmed up quicker on those really cold days, but as mentioned above - short trips in cold weather aren't good for a diesel, the engine needs to hit
operating temp and run for a bit to ensure the fuel is being burned completely.

Fuzly, you should also check out www.kennedydiesel.com and read up on John Kennedy's trucks. He sells performance stuff for all diesels. He's located in Royal Wisconsin. If you're close, go by there and see if John will let you ride in one of his rigs for a "Test Drive" :)

Actually, it's in Loyal:)

It's a couple hour drive, but may be a good day trip on a day off.

Cool site! noticed that J.K. runs block heater and oil pan heater on his trucks for our lovely Wisconsin winters.

Thanks
 
Thanks everybody for the replies-keep 'em coming.

I'm not worried about the cold weather anymore. Letting the glow plugs cycle and oil pan heater should do the trick. Plus the snow gets plowed here, big rigs still on the road, and school buses running with the cold weather, and those vehicles are all diesels.

I live out in the sticks, and don't make short trips. So mileage is a consideration for me. I saw 14 and 18 mpg mentioned, thats great for a big truck.:clap:

As far as trailer pulling, it's kind of a chicken before the egg thing. My Ford Ranger is my largest vehicle. I'm very happy with it overall and when pulling my 5x8 utility trailer, but anything bigger gets not fun quick. So if I had a truck better at trailer pulling, I would be pulling trailers a lot more often:dizzy:

And the possibilities for modification-another way you guys have found to help me spend my money!
 
It's been my experience that the Cummins starts a lot better in cold weather than the Powerstroke. Powerstroke starts ok in the cold if everything is perfect, but if your glowplugs aren't working you can forget about it. I view this as a design flaw. An engine should not need glowplugs to start reliably in cold weather, unless you're dealing with arctic temperature.
 
It's been my experience that the Cummins starts a lot better in cold weather than the Powerstroke. Powerstroke starts ok in the cold if everything is perfect, but if your glowplugs aren't working you can forget about it. I view this as a design flaw. An engine should not need glowplugs to start reliably in cold weather, unless you're dealing with arctic temperature.



It has also been my experience that Cummins start much better in the cold. Of course, Cummins don't have glow plugs anyways. They have a manifold heater :clap:
 
If you want to get a Dodge truck let me know. I work here and will get you a Friends an Family discount. If you buy by the end of the year I can get you an employee discount. That will knock off 5k or better and you get the rebates also. I have a couple discounts to give away before they are useless at the end of the year.

Scott
 
Some days I think Algore might have a point, the winters are just not as severe here as they were 20 years ago. Less snow and less cold.

However, we still get a week or two most winters where it hangs at -20 F to -30 F. That's probably no big deal to the Minnesota/N Dakota/U.P./Canada gang.
 
Dodge v10 could pull some kind of load at a cost of 3 to 5 mpg.:dizzy: Get a diesel if you want an engine that does not know weather its pulling a heavy load or no load. MPG stays about the same with heavy load or no load avg 18mpg with my cummins.

Yikes! The V10s seem to be popping up on used lots around here-no wonder!

Nice truck, BTW.
 
Yikes! The V10s seem to be popping up on used lots around here-no wonder!

Nice truck, BTW.

Thanks Fuzly. Wanted one for ever. Now I dont know why I waited so long to get it. The v10 one of our formen had would pull a heavy load like no gas engine I'd ever seen and it was stock but he did his fuel mileage on paper and 5mpg was best it would do with a heavy load. And I choke on 18mpg.
 
Back
Top