Does octane matter that much?

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Westwood

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Husky 450. Never had an issue. Always ran great. Started on the second pull. This weekend clearing trees, fired up the saw and went fine. Gassed up and continued. Was fine for a bit, then it became hard to start. I had to keep yanking the cord to get it to go. And then after a revving it, if I let go, it'd want to die. Pulled the cover off last night, looked around, seemed fine. Blew out the air filter, the top piece covering the carb, spray carb cleaner into it, and threw it back together. Ran a little better? But still needed the cord yanked a dozen times.

Driving to work this morning I got to thinking, when I gassed the saw up over this weekend, my old gov't approved mixed fuel jug was empty. I switched to another jug, mixed it, but it was 87. The other stuff was 93. All I've ever run in my saw was 93 mixed. Would the 87 play a roll in the hard starts?
 
As long as you have enough, octane doesn't matter.

Trouble after switching fuel = look hard at your fuel. I'd mix up a fresh batch of your normal brew and see what happens.
yea, the stuff I used is fresh. I'm always gassing up crap. Actually, the old 93 I was using was really old; like, several months. This 87 isn't anymore than two weeks.

Could just be the carb needs to be gone through. the gas up could be just poor timing.
 
Whatever change you made, and then the saw ran bad, I would undo that change. In this case, fuel is a very easy thing to go back to normal on. It could definitely be other things, but I'd start here.
 
What temp was it that day?
Yesterday? Eh, 70s. Had it running in hot weather before with no fuss. It was a hard start on the first pull too. Had it running for 30m on and off as I limbed a down tree. Each time it was difficult to restart. No change from the first pull to the fiftieth.

Ordered a tune up kit. New filter and whatnot. That was another thing, the filters. Are these filters like the ones you'd find on a furnace? Like a bunch of fibers? Not like a car's. It almost looks like its full of sawdust, but can't really tell. I blew it out with an airchuck, and it looked no different.
 
Is higher octane better? In my opinion No. higher octane has a higher flash point. This means that it is harder to ignite or simply harder to start. If you had a high performance engine with 11-1 compression then yes. However with a chainsaw use what the owners manual specifies. Believe it or not they know what they are talking about. 40/1
 
My understanding is that as long as you're not getting knocking/preignition, higher octane won't help and will probably actually give less power than lower-octane gas, because what they use to increase octane nowadays (now that MTBE is banned) is a higher proportion of ethanol, which has fewer BTUs per unit of weight or volume than gasoline.

I've always used 89 or 90 octane non-ethanol gas, and never had a problem.
 
Rust, trash, gurve and white lightning nom nom nom
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Yesterday? Eh, 70s. Had it running in hot weather before with no fuss. It was a hard start on the first pull too. Had it running for 30m on and off as I limbed a down tree. Each time it was difficult to restart. No change from the first pull to the fiftieth.

Ordered a tune up kit. New filter and whatnot. That was another thing, the filters. Are these filters like the ones you'd find on a furnace? Like a bunch of fibers? Not like a car's. It almost looks like its full of sawdust, but can't really tell. I blew it out with an airchuck, and it looked no different.
That is relatively cool so prob a non issue.
 
Is higher octane better? In my opinion No. higher octane has a higher flash point. This means that it is harder to ignite or simply harder to start. If you had a high performance engine with 11-1 compression then yes. However with a chainsaw use what the owners manual specifies. Believe it or not they know what they are talking about. 40/1
Yea, no.. higher octane fuel doesn't not have a higher Flashpoint. And Flashpoint doesn't mean what you think it does. IE it's not harder to ignite.
 
My understanding is that as long as you're not getting knocking/preignition, higher octane won't help and will probably actually give less power than lower-octane gas, because what they use to increase octane nowadays (now that MTBE is banned) is a higher proportion of ethanol, which has fewer BTUs per unit of weight or volume than gasoline.
Essentially correct. The higher the octane rating, the less likely the fuel will detonate and, instead, will burn quickly. In the ICE, the "power stroke" ideally wants to push the piston down with a rapid burn/combustion...and not explode. The explosion or detonation is very harmful to the engine and power is significantly reduced. As stated above, the engines with a higher compression ratio typically need higher octane fuels to avoid detonation. Higher performance engines really need higher octane levels. Folks often put "premium" in the fuel tank of their standard-performance engine thinking that it is better and that the engine will run better. Well, maybe and maybe not. If the engine is not designed for the higher octane fuels, the slower burning high-octane fuel may actually produce slightly less power.

So how does one get higher octane? The fuel quality starts in the refining process. The higher octane fuels require more steps in the refinery to produce than the lower octane fuels (such as cracking, reforming, alkylation, etc.). Typically, 87 octane (regular) fuel starts out as 83 or 84 octane fuel at the refinery. When 10% ethanol (alcohol) is added to the fuel, the octane rating jumps up to 87. That's because the native octane rating of ethanol is 112 to 113. Federal subsidies contribute to ethanol production, which finds its way into our gasoline supply. As stated above, ethanol has less energy, by weight, than gasoline. So, by running fuel blended with ethanol, the octane rating goes up...but the combined energy of the fuel is somewhat decreased. The other problems that come with ethanol are based on ethanol's love of water. Ethanol is hygroscopic and hydrophilic. Hygroscopic means that the ethanol in the fuel wants to grab moisture from the air. Hydrophilic means that it likes to mix with water. When ethanol grabs enough water, it phase-separates and the water/ethanol cocktail falls to the bottom of the fuel tank and that's where the fun begins. Keep in mind that ethanol is a solvent and the water/ethanol cocktail loves to attack rubber fuel system parts that are not specifically designed to resist ethanol.

There are other ways to boost the octane rating of fuels. One way is to add a complex hydrocarbon mixture of aromatics called BTEX (benzene, toluene, xylene and ethyl-benzene). BTEX is added to finished gasoline to boost its octane rating. The total volume of BTEX (aromatics) in finished gasoline depends on the desired octane value and other desired fuel properties. BTEX, however, contains benzene and there are health risks associated with benzene. As such, many refineries are moving away from BTEX. Just like Methyl tertiary-butyl ether (MTBE) has been removed from transportation fuels in the USA, BTEX is on its way out.

So, what does all this load of crap mean? Run good quality ethanol-free fuel for your small engines. If your high-performance chainsaw needs 89+ octane...then use it. Detonation (pinging) can destroy an engine. Most small engines that I'm familiar with really need a minimum rating of 89 octane to meet the manufacturer's requirements.

JQ

(sorry for the long-winded explanation, but many years in the petroleum industry will mess with one's mind...)
 

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