Echo cs490 vs poulan pro 5020av

[Cliff R]

"IIRC that was a 141?"

Yes, absolutely and positively the biggest POS I ever had in my line-up. I swear that saw was possessed. It took dozens of pulls to get it started, ran OK for a while, acted up when it got hot, wouldn't hold a tune for shi#, and the oiler worked when it wanted to, which wasn't very often. It was PATHETICALLY underpowered for the cc's, and I don't care who you are or what you know, it WOULD NOT START and stay running if stopped to fuel up for any reason. It had to be cooled all the way down or it would act super-lean, hesitate, shut off, etc.

Thinking I'm a pretty smart guy I tried EVERYTHING to get that saw to run as it should, and after carb kits, fuel lines, gaskets, seals, etc, etc, it was still the same POS I started out with.

The above experience is pretty much on par with every lower end later model plastic Poulan saw that I've had the unfortunate opportunity to be associated with, so I avoid them like the plague.....FWIW.

"Every Poulan I've been around, mostly cheaper ones wont hold a tune. Tune it good and next time you start it it's out of tune. Plus how can anyone compare the quality of a Echo to the lack of quality of a Poulan."

+2, 3, 4 and 5, very well said and the exact same thing I've found here over the years. Not at all trying to put a big black cloud over Poulan stuff, or start a Poulan bashing thread, just calling like I see it, and I work on power equipment daily in the shop, full time now for over 15 years......Cliff

 

[bikemike]

Maybe our

"IIRC that was a 141?"

Yes, absolutely and positively the biggest POS I ever had in my line-up. I swear that saw was possessed. It took dozens of pulls to get it started, ran OK for a while, acted up when it got hot, wouldn't hold a tune for shi#, and the oiler worked when it wanted to, which wasn't very often. It was PATHETICALLY underpowered for the cc's, and I don't care who you are or what you know, it WOULD NOT START and stay running if stopped to fuel up for any reason. It had to be cooled all the way down or it would act super-lean, hesitate, shut off, etc.

Thinking I'm a pretty smart guy I tried EVERYTHING to get that saw to run as it should, and after carb kits, fuel lines, gaskets, seals, etc, etc, it was still the same POS I started out with.

The above experience is pretty much on par with every lower end later model plastic Poulan saw that I've had the unfortunate opportunity to be associated with, so I avoid them like the plague.....FWIW.

"Every Poulan I've been around, mostly cheaper ones wont hold a tune. Tune it good and next time you start it it's out of tune. Plus how can anyone compare the quality of a Echo to the lack of quality of a Poulan."

+2, 3, 4 and 5, very well said and the exact same thing I've found here over the years. Not at all trying to put a big black cloud over Poulan stuff, or start a Poulan bashing thread, just calling like I see it, and I work on power equipment daily in the shop, full time now for over 15 years......Cliff[/QUOT

Maybe you need a poulan man in the shop lol

 

[mountainlake]

Mine hold a tune just fine. And of course they should hold a tune just the same as any other saw, as they use the same Walbro and ZAMA carbs everyone else does. There's simply nothing unusual about the fuel systems, other than complaints about fuel lines (I have not experienced this).

As was pointed out up thread, this is a problematic comparison as it's comparing a split construction alloy case saw to a plastic clamshell at a much lower price.

That said, there are no significant materials or construction quality differences between plastic clamshell homeowner saws from Echo or Poulan (or Stihl or Husqvarna for that matter) - they are all using similar materials and construction techniques with only minor differences. There are technology differences though, as Echo is ten years behind Poulan and still using a cat and compromised port timing while Poulan uses strato.

Exactly where do you get the compromised port timing bs from. Most likely my muff modded CS400 40cc will run right with your 50cc 12+ # Poulan. Every Echo with the clogged up muff opened up and tuned good runs right with Stihl and Husky best as proved by quite a few vids . Plus you can bet Echo uses higher quality parts than any Poulan. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

There are die hard lovers of most types of saws, same deal with brands of cars/trucks, and many other things in life. My opinion on this topic is forged from decades of working on this stuff, and it's just an opinion, others may have completely different ones, to each his own......Cliff

 

[mountainlake]

"IIRC that was a 141?"

Yes, absolutely and positively the biggest POS I ever had in my line-up. I swear that saw was possessed. It took dozens of pulls to get it started, ran OK for a while, acted up when it got hot, wouldn't hold a tune for shi#, and the oiler worked when it wanted to, which wasn't very often. It was PATHETICALLY underpowered for the cc's, and I don't care who you are or what you know, it WOULD NOT START and stay running if stopped to fuel up for any reason. It had to be cooled all the way down or it would act super-lean, hesitate, shut off, etc.

Thinking I'm a pretty smart guy I tried EVERYTHING to get that saw to run as it should, and after carb kits, fuel lines, gaskets, seals, etc, etc, it was still the same POS I started out with.

The above experience is pretty much on par with every lower end later model plastic Poulan saw that I've had the unfortunate opportunity to be associated with, so I avoid them like the plague.....FWIW.

"Every Poulan I've been around, mostly cheaper ones wont hold a tune. Tune it good and next time you start it it's out of tune. Plus how can anyone compare the quality of a Echo to the lack of quality of a Poulan."

+2, 3, 4 and 5, very well said and the exact same thing I've found here over the years. Not at all trying to put a big black cloud over Poulan stuff, or start a Poulan bashing thread, just calling like I see it, and I work on power equipment daily in the shop, full time now for over 15 years......Cliff

You were a lot more patient than me, after 3 or 4 times trying to tune them I gave up. Every Echo I own holds a tune great plus starts and runs great but needs tuning from winter to summer as any saw, not every 10 minutes as with some Poulan saws. Steve

 

[Chris-PA]

Every Echo I own holds a tune great plus starts and runs great but needs tuning from winter to summer as any saw

Exactly like all my Poulans. And all my other saws too. No surprise as they all use fuel systems from one of two manufacturers.

Exactly where do you get the compromised port timing bs from. Most likely my muff modded CS400 40cc will run right with your 50cc 12+ # Poulan. Every Echo with the clogged up muff opened up and tuned good runs right with Stihl and Husky best as proved by quite a few vids . Plus you can bet Echo uses higher quality parts than any Poulan. Steve

The compromised port timing info is not BS, it is measured data from Miller Mod Saws' build thread here: http://www.arboristsite.com/communi...aws-and-the-echo-cs-500p.292214/#post-5720656 It is simply impossible for it to have very good performance given those numbers, although it can be reliable and light and pleasant to use.

I don't have a 5020 (yet). I would put my muffler modded 142 up against your CS-400 without hesitation. About the only difference is that the CS-400 has quad transfers vs the 142 dual transfers. And why would you expect it to be much different? They are both 40cc clamshell engines, probably with very similar squish and port timing, so they will work about the same.

and I don't care who you are or what you know, it WOULD NOT START and stay running if stopped to fuel up for any reason. It had to be cooled all the way down or it would act super-lean, hesitate, shut off, etc.

IIRC the cold start instructions printed on my 142 are to give it 5 quick pulls on choke (to pull fuel through the lines), then once to start it. I can pretty much count on it to start from cold on the 6th pull every time. Hot it will usually start 1st pull. It revs well with no hesitation and would idle until the tank is empty if I let it.

The thing is that this saw originally came with a choked up cat muffler, exactly like a new Echo CS-400. I put an earlier 141 muffler on it which greatly reduced backpressure and heat.

*********************************

These discussions end up being brand wars and people get upset, which I don't get. These are just machines made of metal and plastic, and all remarkably similar too. There is no magic - 2-strokes have been around a long time and you can pretty much tell by the port shapes and timing how it's going to run. The companies that make them deserve just as much loyalty from me as they have toward me in return (which is to say just about none). So while I think Echo makes pretty good stuff and rather like their products, I think that better design solutions have been developed that Echo is avoiding for cost reasons (except for the 550). I feel the same way about any saw with limiter caps and a cat muffler as I felt about that Husqvarna 142 - my wife bought it for me as a gift, but they had cheesed and used a cat and limiter caps. It was lean and got hot as heck - they had glued aluminum heat shields on the inside of the plastic top cover. Husqvarna ripped my wife off, and it pissed me off. To me that kind of stuff is poor design and it irritates me, as I think people deserve better in return for their money.

 

[mountainlake]

Echo saws run and cut great with the porting they have plus have a nice wide power band, as proved by lots of vids, you think your 142 id going to run with a CS400 your thinking wrong, I have a customers 40 cc husky poulan saw over here, not even close to the same power. It's bs people like you that feel the need to knock a certain brand of saw that gets these brand wars started. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

I'm not into the "brand war" nonsense either. I work on all sorts of power equipment here in the shop, trucks, cars, tractors and everything in between. I am brand specific about nothing, and don't stereotype one brand simply because of a bad experience or two with it.

One of my employees has a Walmart Poulan, not sure which one and it really doesn't matter. He borrows one of my Husqvarna 55's to cut firewood, as the Poulan is a PITA to get started, always has been, and it woln't hold a tune for crap. It's a very LOW quality saw, and suited very well to the average home owner that would be looking for a saw in that CC and price range. I see why Poulan has such a firm hold on that end of the market, sub $100 saws for occasion use that do OK for light work and if/when the give troubles you don't have enough money invested in it to be real big deal.

I'll also say that the "low end" saws are also going to sit with fuel in them longer than mid-range and Pro saws. It's a death sentence for nearly any piece of power equipment to sit for months, and even years without being used and the fuel not drained out of them.

Anyhow, enough said on this topic for me. My 02 cents worth here......absolutely for sure get the Echo, and if you don't it's very likely you'll think back to this thread at some point and remember my comments........Cliff

 

[Chris-PA]

Echo saws run and cut great with the porting they have plus have a nice wide power band, as proved by lots of vids, you think your 142 id going to run with a CS400 your thinking wrong, I have a customers 40 cc husky poulan saw over here, not even close to the same power. It's bs people like you that feel the need to knock a certain brand of saw that gets these brand wars started. Steve

See, I discuss designs, give data and examples, talk about parts and materials - and you respond with personal attacks. You have not even tried to support any of your Echo fan-boy statements, rather you go after me. I'm done with you.

 

[mountainlake]

See, I discuss designs, give data and examples, talk about parts and materials - and you respond with personal attacks. You have not even tried to support any of your Echo fan-boy statements, rather you go after me. I'm done with you.

You don't discuss designs, you put down Echo designs every chance you get. The fact is they are good running saws with the designs they have. Steve

 

[Chris J.]

IIRC that was a 141? My 142 is basically the same and it's been a wonderful saw. Different people have different experiences I guess.

The hit-and-miss quality seems to be the big issue with the intended-for-homeowners box store smaller Poulan saws (and many thousands are sold under the Craftsman name). Some people report using them for years with no major issues, while other people report having multiple problems right away. As for the 5020 that the OP asked about, I'd say 90% of the posts here on AS state the 5020 is a good chainsaw.

I agree that it sucks that some of the Poulan models are rebadged as Husqvarna and Jonsered with the "brand name" price to match.


In a nutshell:

1. The Echo CS-490 will be lighter, but will cost more.

2. The Poulan Pro PP5020 will be heavier, but will cost less. And can be had really cheap with careful shopping and some luck.

3. Differences in build quality, reliability, and performance can be debated. With both sides making valid points. With both sides being both somewhat prejudiced for the saw they like and against the saw they don't like*.

4. Choose the one that you're comfortable with. If the Echo reputation for reliability makes you feel better about your purchase, buy the Echo. If you're willing to "take a chance" on the Poulan in order to save some $$, buy the Poulan.


*Opinions are like anuses; everyone has one, and some of them stink.

 

[Cliff R]

"Differences in build quality, reliability, and performance can be debated. With both sides making valid points. With both sides being both somewhat prejudiced for the saw they like and against the saw they don't like*."

Agreed. One thing I make certain to do here, with this and other topics is to post reliable, accurate and up to date information as I know it to be. Even with that said, there are topics that one must make general statements about, and this is one of them.

My experience with Echo products spans several decades, and not everything they make or have made is up to par in the power to weight department, but even their bottom of the barrel stuff is very well built and dead solid reliable in long term service (from what I've seen here). Echo has also stepped up in recent years and introduced chainsaw models that will rival in power the top name brand Pro models. I just did some direct testing with a CS-600P and 262XP and put up a thread, etc.

Anyhow, many years of experience has taught me well with these things, and as a general rule around here Poulan products are to be avoided, IF you really want top quality power equipment that will last for many years without issues. For the guy who owns 1/4 acre lot in town and only trims a fallen limb or occasional branch couple of times a year, Poulan should be your saw of choice. Then when it woln't start from being all gummed up with stale fuel from months or years of sitting without use, you only out 30-40 percent of the money spent on a much better product.....FWIW......Cliff

 

[Chris J.]

"Differences in build quality, reliability, and performance can be debated. With both sides making valid points. With both sides being both somewhat prejudiced for the saw they like and against the saw they don't like*."

Agreed. One thing I make certain to do here, with this and other topics is to post reliable, accurate and up to date information as I know it to be. Even with that said, there are topics that one must make general statements about, and this is one of them.

My experience with Echo products spans several decades, and not everything they make or have made is up to par in the power to weight department, but even their bottom of the barrel stuff is very well built and dead solid reliable in long term service (from what I've seen here). Echo has also stepped up in recent years and introduced chainsaw models that will rival in power the top name brand Pro models. I just did some direct testing with a CS-600P and 262XP and put up a thread, etc.

Anyhow, many years of experience has taught me well with these things, and as a general rule around here Poulan products are to be avoided, IF you really want top quality power equipment that will last for many years without issues. For the guy who owns 1/4 acre lot in town and only trims a fallen limb or occasional branch couple of times a year, Poulan should be your saw of choice. Then when it woln't start from being all gummed up with stale fuel from months or years of sitting without use, you only out 30-40 percent of the money spent on a much better product.....FWIW......Cliff

I understand and respect what your saying.

As for saws being stored for lengthy periods of time, and ending up being gummed up from stale fuel, that can't be blamed on the particular brand of the saw. Admittedly some manufacturers do use cheap(er) fuel lines that will deteriorate quicker than the better ones.

A couple of thoughts just popped into my head.

1. If a person is in the repair business, chances are good that they're only going to see the problem saws, not the saws that are reliable.

2. Let's say, for the sake of argument, most of the problem saws are Poulan, and few are Echo. Given the volume of saws sold by Poulan, compared to the volume sold by Echo, it makes sense that more Poulan saws would come in with problems.

3. Another factor is the purchaser/user. A Harry Homeowner who buys the budget priced Poulan probably won't look after it the same a more experienced user willing to pay more for an Echo. And an inexperienced user is more likely to overuse a saw, i.e. doesn't know when to give the saw a break and when to sharpen the chain.

Obviously there are Harry Homeowners who buy & neglect Echo saws, the same as some buy & properly maintain Poulan saws. How the two brands hold up under both circumstances I have no idea. My guess is the quality control at the Echo/Shindaiwa plants is better than that at the Poulan plants, hence there might be more "Monday morning" and "Friday afternoon" quality saws that slip by at Poulan.

 

[joe25DA]

Yeah I'm not brand bias I like all my saws that do what they are expected of them. Sorry for the sarcasm on the echo post

Me either. A good saw is just that regardless of the brand

 

[joe25DA]

I'll also add that some here claim to not be brand bias, are in fact completely. For example, I'll take my 330 Poulan over my husky 55. I own 2 330s and 2 55s, I like the 330 better. I have dolmars, Stihl, husky, Poulan, homelite, echo, pioneer, mccolluch ....
I'd like to add a 5020 cause I've heard a lot of good things, the price is right and they're made in USA.
Not sure if Chris said it or not, he prob did but 90% of saw complaints/problems are operator error. You can't expect a 40cc homeowner saw to cut like a 50cc pro saw

 

[chevyforlife21]

I'll add I've had more problems with stilhl then poulan pro after owning 5 to 10 of each. Given the stihls have been mostly lower end ones

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[chevyforlife21]

I'll also add that some here claim to not be brand bias, are in fact completely. For example, I'll take my 330 Poulan over my husky 55. I own 2 330s and 2 55s, I like the 330 better. I have dolmars, Stihl, husky, Poulan, homelite, echo, pioneer, mccolluch ....
I'd like to add a 5020 cause I've heard a lot of good things, the price is right and they're made in USA.
Not sure if Chris said it or not, he prob did but 90% of saw complaints/problems are operator error. You can't expect a 40cc homeowner saw to cut like a 50cc pro saw

I went with one with cons very heavy oils like crazy at idle and makes a mess I've only ran half a tank through in the few months I've had it but it's better made then the 4218 or 4620 I've had I feel not I ever had a problem with those

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[GrassGuerilla]

Mine hold a tune just fine. And of course they should hold a tune just the same as any other saw, as they use the same Walbro and ZAMA carbs everyone else does. There's simply nothing unusual about the fuel systems, other than complaints about fuel lines (I have not experienced this).

As was pointed out up thread, this is a problematic comparison as it's comparing a split construction alloy case saw to a plastic clamshell at a much lower price.

That said, there are no significant materials or construction quality differences between plastic clamshell homeowner saws from Echo or Poulan (or Stihl or Husqvarna for that matter) - they are all using similar materials and construction techniques with only minor differences. There are technology differences though, as Echo is ten years behind Poulan and still using a cat and compromised port timing while Poulan uses strato.

Hmmm, dunno about that conclusion. I've been looking at new string trimmers. The new Redmax trimmers (zenoah being the inventors of Strato technology) are abandoning it in favor of cat technology. As has their Parent Husqvarna. Redmax 260 trimmer and Husky 525 series trimmers. Perhaps it's your Poulan living on borrowed technology?

For the record, I have to agree with those that would take an Echo over a Pooplan any day. Day in, day out, Echo tools just work.

 

[Chris-PA]

Hmmm, dunno about that conclusion. I've been looking at new string trimmers. The new Redmax trimmers (zenoah being the inventors of Strato technology) are abandoning it in favor of cat technology. As has their Parent Husqvarna. Redmax 260 trimmer and Husky 525 series trimmers. Perhaps it's your Poulan living on borrowed technology?

For the record, I have to agree with those that would take an Echo over a Pooplan any day. Day in, day out, Echo tools just work.

I dunno - looking at the RedMax web site all the trimmers marked "new" claim to be strato-charged in all the categories. Still, trimmers are not chainsaws. Usually much smaller engines running at lower rpms, and lots of part throttle running. I'm not sure how much of an advantage strato is under those conditions, although my 32cc Poulan strato trimmer/pole saw works quite well.

Anybody and their (Chinese) brother can make a chainsaw with a cat pass emissions. There are EPA certified versions of older RedMax/Zenoah saws with cats for sale at all the big box stores now. The little Ryobi RY3716 saws look pretty nice for something like $110 - sure they're choked up, but they're light and seem well put together and will cut wood with a decent chain. Gonna take some market share.

So when we say the Echo is nice and light but it's got no power, is well made and reliable but costs a bit more, I wonder how well it will compete? There's no technology edge over old Zenoah saw designs from China. Poulan can compete on price and has an advantage of inherently lower emissions.

 

[GrassGuerilla]

I dunno - looking at the RedMax web site all the trimmers marked "new" claim to be strato-charged in all the categories. Still, trimmers are not chainsaws. Usually much smaller engines running at lower rpms, and lots of part throttle running. I'm not sure how much of an advantage strato is under those conditions, although my 32cc Poulan strato trimmer/pole saw works quite well.

Anybody and their (Chinese) brother can make a chainsaw with a cat pass emissions. There are EPA certified versions of older RedMax/Zenoah saws with cats for sale at all the big box stores now. The little Ryobi RY3716 saws look pretty nice for something like $110 - sure they're choked up, but they're light and seem well put together and will cut wood with a decent chain. Gonna take some market share.

So when we say the Echo is nice and light but it's got no power, is well made and reliable but costs a bit more, I wonder how well it will compete? There's no technology edge over old Zenoah saw designs from China. Poulan can compete on price and has an advantage of inherently lower emissions.

Looks like the counter guy at the dealer I stopped at was just plain wrong. Still Strato as far as I can see too. I think the thing that threw him off was the newer style carb. They don't have the old style separate Strato intake thingy.