Echo guys- what is the breakdown of their "commercial" and "consumer" lines?

[jlh26oo]

They don't seem to have discrete categories on echo-usa, and the model descriptions are a little confusing (I.E. one says "professional quality", one I looked at in H.D. has "professional features", then another is described as "commercial grade" etc). Seem to cross what I originally thought was a gray vs. orange model line distinction in that respect.

Also, I don't see power ratings listed in the specs. Does Echo (or anyone else) publish it elsewhere? Not that power is a huge concern, as any 40 to 50 C.C. will be more than enough for my purposes. It's just the increased durability and reliability of "commercial grade" appeals to me- but Stihl Pro is really pushing my budget, so I figured I better explore less expensive alternatives too before I splurge (I.E. maybe I can swing a comparable Echo and still have enough left over to buy a case for it... without starving the dealer's children)!

How is their five year warranty, anyone have problems trying to use it? I like the look of these designs, and the "automotive" style air filter- that's something you buy and replace, not clean (B.T.W. how much do those cost)?

 

[Cliff R]

A few years ago we obtained just about every peice of equipment in the Echo line-up. Two 301 top handles, 1 3400 top handle, CS-440, 2 CS-510's, CS-670, and CS-800, two leaf blowers, one garden tiller, and one string trimmer.

We had one issue, one of the 510's was delivered without a filter on the fuel line in the tank. I just bought one and installed it myself, and cleaned out the carb as needed.

No other issues with any of them.

I got rid of the top handle saws. They ran OK, and were reliable, but the reed valve engines are slow. I also got rid of the CS-800, the biggest saw in their line-up. We also lost the CS-440, I loaned it to a friend and it was stolen out of his garage.

In any case, the CS-510's are excellent saws, we've put countless hours on them, no issues anyplace. I don't use the CS-670 much, but it is a very good saw, decent power, etc.

I purchased a new CS-360 T top handle saw, and have been evaluating it for some time. Ran it yesterday for several hours, limbing out a fallen beech tree and removing a big tree that fell on a house in a recent storm. The CS-360 was very "anemic" right out of the box. The carb was set way too lean, and the muffler is very restrictive. I ended up sawing the muffler in half and removing the catalyst, then welding it back together. It cuts quite a bit faster, with more power at every rpm.

Aside from the reed valve engine top handle models, I can't fault anything in their line-up. I didn't much like the big saw, too heavy and not over impressive for the size. Since I own a Husky 480 and 268XP, it didn't see much use, so we sold it.

It seems like many are quick to bash the Echo product line. I've been told that the CS-360T will develope a "death rattle", but it continues to run flawlessly, with power comparable to Stihl and Husky Professional top handle models.

The CS-510's are my favorites in the line-up, as they have decent power and will cut more wood per gallon of fuel than anything else we own.

It is my opinion that Echo's may get somewhat of a bad rap due to the factory setting these saws extremely lean to get by EPA requirements. Without exception, we've had to fatten up every single one of them or I have no doubt the engines would have died a quick and miserable death.

I wouldn't hesitate to get an Echo based on your requirements. The automotive style air cleaners are excellent, and provide a LOT of surface area, and easy to clean. I just remove them and blow them out from the inside with compressed air........Cliff

PS: I can't really help with their ratings, professional vs commercial grades, etc. My supplier was a depot level service tech, and tells me that all of their engines on the new saws are built the same specifications, with the best materials and closest tolerances in the industry...FWIW

 

[mountainlake]

Red, where are you? I don't think gray or orange meam anything. The smallest I've had apart is a CS440 which is built better than, more metal than Husky and Stihl homeowner units. If you can get one off Ebay for a little over $200 thats a good saw for the money. I see Bailys is advertising A CS520 at prices too low to print that't a real nice saw, I have the older CS510 runs like a top, smooth. light and good power. Now it's time to hear from the bashers that don't own one. Red you should have been first.
Stihl 2- 044 MS170
Husky 385xp Rancher55
Echo CS8000 CS6700 CS5500 2-CS510 CS5000 CS440
Cub Cadet (Efco) 5720
Dolmar 143
Solo 690 636 Steve

 

[mountainlake]

A few years ago we obtained just about every peice of equipment in the Echo line-up. Two 301 top handles, 1 3400 top handle, CS-440, 2 CS-510's, CS-670, and CS-800, two leaf blowers, one garden tiller, and one string trimmer.

We had one issue, one of the 510's was delivered without a filter on the fuel line in the tank. I just bought one and installed it myself, and cleaned out the carb as needed.

No other issues with any of them.

I got rid of the top handle saws. They ran OK, and were reliable, but the reed valve engines are slow. I also got rid of the CS-800, the biggest saw in their line-up. We also lost the CS-440, I loaned it to a friend and it was stolen out of his garage.

In any case, the CS-510's are excellent saws, we've put countless hours on them, no issues anyplace. I don't use the CS-670 much, but it is a very good saw, decent power, etc.

I purchased a new CS-360 T top handle saw, and have been evaluating it for some time. Ran it yesterday for several hours, limbing out a fallen beech tree and removing a big tree that fell on a house in a recent storm. The CS-360 was very "anemic" right out of the box. The carb was set way too lean, and the muffler is very restrictive. I ended up sawing the muffler in half and removing the catalyst, then welding it back together. It cuts quite a bit faster, with more power at every rpm.

Aside from the reed valve engine top handle models, I can't fault anything in their line-up. I didn't much like the big saw, too heavy and not over impressive for the size. Since I own a Husky 480 and 268XP, it didn't see much use, so we sold it.

It seems like many are quick to bash the Echo product line. I've been told that the CS-360T will develope a "death rattle", but it continues to run flawlessly, with power comparable to Stihl and Husky Professional top handle models.

The CS-510's are my favorites in the line-up, as they have decent power and will cut more wood per gallon of fuel than anything else we own.

It is my opinion that Echo's may get somewhat of a bad rap due to the factory setting these saws extremely lean to get by EPA requirements. Without exception, we've had to fatten up every single one of them or I have no doubt the engines would have died a quick and miserable death.

I wouldn't hesitate to get an Echo based on your requirements. The automotive style air cleaners are excellent, and provide a LOT of surface area, and easy to clean. I just remove them and blow them out from the inside with compressed air........Cliff

PS: I can't really help with their ratings, professional vs commercial grades, etc. My supplier was a depot level service tech, and tells me that all of their engines on the new saws are built the same specifications, with the best materials and closest tolerances in the industry...FWIW

Cliff We must have been typing at the same time, I'll second the auto style air filter seems like you can run forever between cleanings. It's time for you to open the muffler and put a CS8000 carb on your CS670. Steve

 

[Cliff R]

Steve, it's loaned out right now, but I had planned on opening up the muffler a bit, and I have a spare carb for the larger saw I can install on it. The 670 runs fine as delivered, but doesn't cut nearly as fast as the 268XP, which sees the most use around here when we get into bigger stuff.

Same with the CS-510 compared to the Husky 55. The 55 is mildy ported, and the 510 has the muffler opened up some. The 55 still cuts quite a bit faster with more power in the higher rpm's.

The most impressive Echo saw we have is the CS-360T. The muffler mod really helped it out. In addition to removing the catalyst, I opened up the two small "slits" inside the muffler with two 5/16" diameter holes. I was about 15' off the ground yesterday, and it cut thru a 16" limb that was laying over on a roof like a hot knife thru butter. After it hit the ground, my helper cut most of the log up with the little 360, it's a pretty impressive little saw now that we've got it modded a bit. The only feature I don't like is the rev limiting module, seems to come in around 15,000rpm's, so we set it to "4 stroke" just below that rpm, just to make sure it doesn't go lean in the cut. In my opinion I could get a bit more out of it with standard coil without the rev limiting feature?.......Cliff

 

[excess650]

The smaller saws have the engine shortblock enclosed in a plastic clamshell, and this includes the new CS-370 and CS-400. I'm told the CS-440 had metal cases, and the CS-520, CS-670, and CS-8000 definitely do. My own Echos are the smaller, plastic cased saws including the CS-345, CS-3450, and CS-346. I've thrashed one of the 3450s pretty hard, and it just seems to beg for more. In that these are 33.4cc saws, they are generally just used for limbing, but occasionally get into 12" logs and flush cutting stumps. They may not be the fastest, but they do have adjustable carbs, adjustable oilers, and are durable.

 

[jlh26oo]

Steve, it's loaned out right now, but I had planned on opening up the muffler a bit, and I have a spare carb for the larger saw I can install on it. The 670 runs fine as delivered, but doesn't cut nearly as fast as the 268XP, which sees the most use around here when we get into bigger stuff.

Same with the CS-510 compared to the Husky 55. The 55 is mildy ported, and the 510 has the muffler opened up some. The 55 still cuts quite a bit faster with more power in the higher rpm's.

The most impressive Echo saw we have is the CS-360T. The muffler mod really helped it out. In addition to removing the catalyst, I opened up the two small "slits" inside the muffler with two 5/16" diameter holes. I was about 15' off the ground yesterday, and it cut thru a 16" limb that was laying over on a roof like a hot knife thru butter. After it hit the ground, my helper cut most of the log up with the little 360, it's a pretty impressive little saw now that we've got it modded a bit. The only feature I don't like is the rev limiting module, seems to come in around 15,000rpm's, so we set it to "4 stroke" just below that rpm, just to make sure it doesn't go lean in the cut. In my opinion I could get a bit more out of it with standard coil without the rev limiting feature?.......Cliff

C.R.- do you think that's in part due to it's "Power Boost Vortex™ engine"- for some reason it looks like Echo reserves that technology exclusively for the 360T and other top-handle designs. And I would assume that they would adjust those factory settings you mentioned to where they need to be if I bought from a dealer, right?

It is my opinion that Echo's may get somewhat of a bad rap due to the factory setting these saws extremely lean to get by EPA requirements. Without exception, we've had to fatten up every single one of them or I have no doubt the engines would have died a quick and miserable death.

Excess- if in fact the 520 does, and the 440 does NOT have a metal case- that means you really can't tell anything just by looking at them (much less the color), since those two look almost identical. Exactly the type of F.B. I was looking for, thanks all.

I will be stopping by a dealer on the way home from work this morning to take a look at a 520.

 

[Brian S]

Excess- if in fact the 520 does, and the 440 does NOT have a metal case- that means you really can't tell anything just by looking at them (much less the color), since those two look almost identical. Exactly the type of F.B. I was looking for, thanks all.

I will be stopping by a dealer on the way home from work this morning to take a look at a 520.

The CS440 does have a metal crank case. The newer orange CS400 has a plastic case. I have the CS440 and I like it really well even compared to my 026.

 

[rbtree]

Steve, it's loaned out right now, but I had planned on opening up the muffler a bit, and I have a spare carb for the larger saw I can install on it. The 670 runs fine as delivered, but doesn't cut nearly as fast as the 268XP, which sees the most use around here when we get into bigger stuff.

Same with the CS-510 compared to the Husky 55. The 55 is mildy ported, and the 510 has the muffler opened up some. The 55 still cuts quite a bit faster with more power in the higher rpm's.

The most impressive Echo saw we have is the CS-360T. The muffler mod really helped it out. In addition to removing the catalyst, I opened up the two small "slits" inside the muffler with two 5/16" diameter holes. I was about 15' off the ground yesterday, and it cut thru a 16" limb that was laying over on a roof like a hot knife thru butter. After it hit the ground, my helper cut most of the log up with the little 360, it's a pretty impressive little saw now that we've got it modded a bit. The only feature I don't like is the rev limiting module, seems to come in around 15,000rpm's, so we set it to "4 stroke" just below that rpm, just to make sure it doesn't go lean in the cut. In my opinion I could get a bit more out of it with standard coil without the rev limiting feature?.......Cliff

Cliff, that's nice to hear. The 330/350/360 saws are piston ported, aren't they?

I had a couple of 3400's. They were nice for what they are...opened the muffler and gained 20% cut speed or so.

Personally, I don't like the bulky look of the 360.....and I'm a Husky/Jonsy lover....and can't fault anything about the 200T but the price.

 

[SAWITALL]

They don't seem to have discrete categories on echo-usa, and the model descriptions are a little confusing (I.E. one says "professional quality", one I looked at in H.D. has "professional features", then another is described as "commercial grade" etc). Seem to cross what I originally thought was a gray vs. orange model line distinction in that respect.

Also, I don't see power ratings listed in the specs. Does Echo (or anyone else) publish it elsewhere? Not that power is a huge concern, as any 40 to 50 C.C. will be more than enough for my purposes. It's just the increased durability and reliability of "commercial grade" appeals to me- but Stihl Pro is really pushing my budget, so I figured I better explore less expensive alternatives too before I splurge (I.E. maybe I can swing a comparable Echo and still have enough left over to buy a case for it... without starving the dealer's children)!

How is their five year warranty, anyone have problems trying to use it? I like the look of these designs, and the "automotive" style air filter- that's something you buy and replace, not clean (B.T.W. how much do those cost)?

If they created power then they would put it in the catalogue, but since they lack power cc- cc of other models it's not posted. The reason for the orange color is to confuse people into thinking that they are buying a Stihl.
Just go get a MS250 and a CCC kit.
The five year warranty is because Home Depot wanted to be better than Lowe's.

 

[mountainlake]

If they created power then they would put it in the catalogue, but since they lack power cc- cc of other models it's not posted. The reason for the orange color is to confuse people into thinking that they are buying a Stihl.
Just go get a MS250 and a CCC kit.
The five year warranty is because Home Depot wanted to be better than Lowe's.

Mine sure cut good for having no power> They have power listed over on Austrialan web sites in kw and all of thier models are orange with the model numbers a little different. HP = kw x 1.34 if you want to get hp numbers not that manufactor numbers mean anything. Take Stihls MS260 rated at 3.2 hp compared to the MS290 rated at 3.8 hp, does the 290 cut way better than a 260, maybe but not the ones I've run. Could be a little marketing ploy to make Stihl's number 1 selling saw and most likely most profitable saw look good. Steve

 

[jmossbarger]

Just go get a MS250 and a CCC kit.
The five year warranty is because Home Depot wanted to be better than Lowe's.

What is the CCC kit?

Joe

 

[Erick]

Why is it that Red breaks out the Pom Pom's and mucks up every other thread with all his Echo cheerleading and when someone asks a legitimate question about an Echo he's MIA. :dunno:

:Eye: :Eye:


Sorry jlh26oo, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread already in progress.

Gooooooo Eek Khooo.

 

[jlh26oo]

Well I stopped by an Echo dealership this morning. The only C.S. 520 they had was on the floor- but sealed up in the box, so no display to look at. The C.S. 670 looked pretty good, and I guess it would be just like that except considerably smaller and lighter. Anyways, when I asked how much the 520 costs, the first guy asked what size bar, then the other guy interjected- no, you have to buy the 20" it comes with in the box. Which would be fine, except that if I buy an additional (shorter) bar, that closes the gap between the bottom lines.

So is that Y.M.M.V. depending on the Echo dealer, or pretty much standard practice (on the no bar-swapping policy)? M.L.- I know what you mean re: putting stock in power ratings. I'm finding even WEIGHTS on spec sheets are not always consistent L.O.L. (but if you happen to have that Australian website handy, I'd be interested in looking at those ratings).

 

[jlh26oo]

The CS440 does have a metal crank case. The newer orange CS400 has a plastic case. I have the CS440 and I like it really well even compared to my 026.

Good report, comparing favorably to a 026. I see the only differences between the 440 and 520 are 45 vs. 50 C.C.'s, 10.5 and 10.8 lbs, and fuel capacity 16 vs 20oz. Why would they have two models so close together like that (I.E. why did you choose the 440 over the 520)? B.T.W. which do you find starts easier B.S.- your 026 or 440?

 

[pgg]

From CliffR- "It seems like many are quick to bash the Echo product line. I've been told that the CS-360T will develope a "death rattle", but it continues to run flawlessly, with power comparable to Stihl and Husky Professional top handle models."


Cliff! Your 360T is now officially the longest running 360T on the planet! It must be close to 12 months old by now? None of the four 360T's I've seen in action lasted any longer than a few weeks(their carbs tweaked richer too) Mind you, on this job, pruning pines to 21 foot butt-logs, our TH saws are running 6-8 hours a day, 5 days a week(weather dependant) the 020/200T's and XPT huskys run solidly for years on end, thousands of hours trouble free. The 360T's are reasonably grunty for an echo, but as full-on commercial pruning saws they simply didn't hack the pace. All 4 of our 'death rattle' 360T's were shipped back to japan by the dealer for investigation, never heard a word back from them since..

 

[mountainlake]

Well I stopped by an Echo dealership this morning. The only C.S. 520 they had was on the floor- but sealed up in the box, so no display to look at. The C.S. 670 looked pretty good, and I guess it would be just like that except considerably smaller and lighter. Anyways, when I asked how much the 520 costs, the first guy asked what size bar, then the other guy interjected- no, you have to buy the 20" it comes with in the box. Which would be fine, except that if I buy an additional (shorter) bar, that closes the gap between the bottom lines.

So is that Y.M.M.V. depending on the Echo dealer, or pretty much standard practice (on the no bar-swapping policy)? M.L.- I know what you mean re: putting stock in power ratings. I'm finding even WEIGHTS on spec sheets are not always consistent L.O.L. (but if you happen to have that Australian website handy, I'd be interested in looking at those ratings).

www.allpower.com.au should get you a AU website that sells Echo saws. My CS 440 18" bar wieghts 1# less than my CS510 20" bar full of fuel and oil on a good scale. I've run a 20" bar for years on my CS510 with no problems cutting up to 14" hardwood, much bigger than that a bigger saw comes out. The CS440 is a nice saw that responds well to a muffler mod and tuning the carb right. CS510 cuts good stock. Steve

 

[Just Mow]

What is the CCC kit?

Joe

Case/Chain/Hat package.

 

[Lakeside53]

C=hat??:monkey:

 

[CharlieG]

Tool King has the refurbished Makita 6400 (Dolmar 6400 painted blue) for $299 plus $7.99 shipping, then deduct $10 for the E-coupon . Run it as is, or have the option to upgrade the saw at a later/sooner time for more umph. This is not to say I bought one myself . Anyway, a sub $300 64cc factory refurbished name brand saw is a nice price. What can happen....you buy another saw?