greenworks chainsaws: "pro" 80v vs "commercial" 82v

[little trees]

I have a proper sthil 60cc for when it's needed. But I've been pretty happy with my greenworks "pro" 80v. Last year I cleared a hundred or so 4"-18" pines from our lot. We're already invested in the line for small-yard maintanance stuff (mower) - so we have lots of batteries.

I want to buy a second electric saw to leave with my tractor. The 80v batteries can be easily modified to work with the "commercial" 82v tools. The distinction on batteries is mostly cosmetic (and the batteries are current & thermal protected, so even if the "commercial" batteries can say source more current, the 80v will be safe. cell count and nominal voltage is actually identical)

My question is about durability of the two lines, mainly. I am plenty happy with the power of the non-commercial line, and only use it within its limits. Also, durability between the old & new models of each, as both pro&commercial recently added a new saw.

Their line is a bit confusing, it seem clear that they have "very similiar" models in both lines, but have also released a new/second (also "very similar") saw in both lines:

• these models have been around for some time: "commercial" gs180 -vs- "pro" 2000402 ("42cc")
  • battery is perpendicular (fat ways) to blade
  • outwardly, these look FULLY identical to me
  • $260 vs $200 retail; but the pro is presumably being phased out & is on sale
• newer models "commercial" gs181 ("50cc") -vs- "pro" 2014002AZ ("45cc")
  • this model has battery 'inline' / thin-orientation to blade; released more recently
  • models look very similar, but I can see some differences, such as some more metal and different oil tank on the commercial
  • $350 vs ~$275 bare tool msrp

Thanks!

the older models:



newer models:

 

[little trees]

I'm surprised no one has used both. I know e-saws are still a bit niche, but for the right use they are the bees knees.

If not on AS, any other sources to check out? I've obviously googled quite a bit using all the various names & model numbers I can find.

Thanks!

 

[OM617YOTA]

I have the Kobalt 80v version. I really like it.

 

[Philbert]

Try contacting the manufacturer. I am confident that they will not recommend modifying the batteries, so don’t mention that, but they might be able to give you some technical information on the differences between the two lines. The ‘pro’ models might have some heavier duty components (bearings, switches, capacitors, metal instead of plastic parts, etc.) to hold up better for extended use. Stuff you cannot see.

If you find about, please share it here!

Philbert

 

[little trees]

Try contacting the manufacturer. I am confident that they will not recommend modifying the batteries, so don’t mention that, but they might be able to give you some technical information on the differences between the two lines. The ‘pro’ models might have some heavier duty components (bearings, switches, capacitors, metal instead of plastic parts, etc.) to hold up better for extended use. Stuff you cannot see.

If you find about, please share it here!

Philbert

FWIW i had already tried this. I kept the phone on hold for an hour before giving up....

I've ordered the newer non-commercial model "pro" 2014002AZ.... greenworks advertises it as slightly more power than the original non-commercial model which I've been happy with, and no battery mods required. Costco also sells it, meaning I have a lot more leeway on warranty should something prove defective.

 

[Philbert]

I've ordered the newer non-commercial model "pro" 2014002AZ

Please let us know how it works for you!

Philbert

 

[alabama xl]

very interested in being able to swap batteries between the "pro" and the "commercial" series.
Greenworks commercial, are, as far as I can tell, the only manufacturer who states the actual power of their motors, though there is a bit of discrepency even on their own website, with the 48V top handle saw being listed as 2kW, and 1.4kW in the same listing.
That big 20" 82V saw with the metal housing exposed bottom front by the blade is listed as 3.5KW, but also might be just 3.2KW. The smaller commerical saws are listed as 2.4 and 2.7kW for the 16 and 18" saws respectively.
60V "pro" series has a saw identical in design to the 82V commercial 20", and looks like a better saw as sold, as it has more WH standard. it comes with a 60V 8Ah battery, whereas the "82V" saw comes with an 80V 4Ah battery that can deliver less current than the 60V battery can. you can get an 8Ah battery for the 20" 82V saw, but it then weighs significantly more.
The key for getting the most out of these saws is having more cells in parallel in the battery to deliver higher peak current, and figuring out how hard you can push the saw before it stalls. Respecting duty cycle, and not overheating the saw are important to battery life, and keeping it cutting at a respectable speed. I've found even with my baby 10" makita with single tired old 18V 3Ah battery, that I can do a lot of cutting if I let the saw work at its own pace, rather than trying to push it hard in every cut. I really want to try these greenworks saws, but am leery of their customer service, or lack thereof, and the longevity of the tools. It would also be really nice to know what needs to happen to swap the 80V with the 82V systems, since these systems ought to have a pretty powerful motor on the lawn mowers.

There is a limit to what can be done to maximize power and duty cycle for a given battery size and weight, and it sort of seems like the 60V systems win in that regard. If I bite the bullet and buy the 60V 20" saw, I'll see what I can do to test it fully, and report back. The 80V one seems to cost a lot more for minor increases in available power, but having battery compatability with the more powerful 80/82V mowers would be nice!

 

[sawfun]

very interested in being able to swap batteries between the "pro" and the "commercial" series.
Greenworks commercial, are, as far as I can tell, the only manufacturer who states the actual power of their motors, though there is a bit of discrepency even on their own website, with the 48V top handle saw being listed as 2kW, and 1.4kW in the same listing.
That big 20" 82V saw with the metal housing exposed bottom front by the blade is listed as 3.5KW, but also might be just 3.2KW. The smaller commerical saws are listed as 2.4 and 2.7kW for the 16 and 18" saws respectively.
60V "pro" series has a saw identical in design to the 82V commercial 20", and looks like a better saw as sold, as it has more WH standard. it comes with a 60V 8Ah battery, whereas the "82V" saw comes with an 80V 4Ah battery that can deliver less current than the 60V battery can. you can get an 8Ah battery for the 20" 82V saw, but it then weighs significantly more.
The key for getting the most out of these saws is having more cells in parallel in the battery to deliver higher peak current, and figuring out how hard you can push the saw before it stalls. Respecting duty cycle, and not overheating the saw are important to battery life, and keeping it cutting at a respectable speed. I've found even with my baby 10" makita with single tired old 18V 3Ah battery, that I can do a lot of cutting if I let the saw work at its own pace, rather than trying to push it hard in every cut. I really want to try these greenworks saws, but am leery of their customer service, or lack thereof, and the longevity of the tools. It would also be really nice to know what needs to happen to swap the 80V with the 82V systems, since these systems ought to have a pretty powerful motor on the lawn mowers.

There is a limit to what can be done to maximize power and duty cycle for a given battery size and weight, and it sort of seems like the 60V systems win in that regard. If I bite the bullet and buy the 60V 20" saw, I'll see what I can do to test it fully, and report back. The 80V one seems to cost a lot more for minor increases in available power, but having battery compatability with the more powerful 80/82V mowers would be nice!

Havinf an 80v saw, which I like, and wanting to step up to the more powerful 82v commercial saw. Id like to know if I can use or how to modify the 80v batteries I have, to work in the 82v saw.

 

[SteveSr]

The difference may very well be in the cells themselves. Just because they are the same number of cells doesn't mean that they are the same cells. The capacities may be different as well as other parameters such as internal series resistance which will affect internal heating and peak power output.

The cells normally have an industry standard physical size like 18650. However a given cell size can come from multiple manufactures with slightly different chemistries, cell construction, charge and discharge characteristics, etc. To get that high a voltage it sounds like they are using 20-24 cells in series.

 

[Philbert]

My understanding is that those are ‘nominal’ voltages. That is, you will get different numbers depending on how and when measured (e.g. ‘peak voltage’, ‘charging voltage’, etc.).

I have been told that ‘36 Volt’ battery packs are the same as ‘40 Volt’ battery packs. Same with 18V and 20V.

The battery packs usually have some type of circuitry inside. So there is more than just the cells and the contact points. It might be possible. But messing with Li-ion batteries make me a little nervous.

Philbert

 

[user 189850]

Spent about 15 minutes comparing the 80v residential, and 82v commercial line, here's some observations:

1) Take a look at the line-up (about 2/3 down the page, the weight goes up proportional to the peak power (kilo-watts = kW); of course bar length goes 16/18/20/24 (24 is new and "coming soon"). link: [1]

2) the commercial uses a 0.325 pitch chain, the residential a 3/8-LP

3) warranty: 4 years residential, 2 years commercial (I think Ego's commercial line is 1 year)

4) the commercial line has pretty comprehensive specs on battery maximum current (amps), and max power (watts). the residential only has watt-hour (WH) ratings). generally higher amperage batteries cost more, so GW is likely using more expensive cells in the commercial line.


[1] https://commercial.greenworkstools....3-4kw-chainsaw-with-1-4-ah-battery-dp-charger

 

[J D]

The advantage of running higher voltage (V) is that less current (I) is required to give the same power. This is significant because the more current that is being passed, the more power will be lost across any conductor resistance as heat. In a perfect system, an 80V battery is passing 25A to make 2kW, while a 60V battery is passing over 33A. Given P= R×I², & all other things being equal (leads, connectors, contacts, etc) the 60v system will "loose" about 80% more power than the 80V system across internal resistances. If we put a value on these resistances as low as 0.5 ohms that still equates to nearly a quarter kW less loss for the 80V system... or 1/8 more power delivered with 75% of the current.
Additionally, the more current the system has to pass the shorter its lifespan is likely to be.

 

[J D]

With regard to the battery voltages, individual lithium batteries have a nominal voltage of 3.6V - 3.8V depending on their particular chemistry & composition. They can be charged to upto about 0.5V above this which will yield more power at the expense of battery longevity.
It is possible that the manufacturer is using different cells in their commercial batteries but probably more likely the charge circuitry is just set to charge slightly higher, giving greater runtime but a shorter battery lifespan (tying in nicely with the reduced warranty period)

 

[user 189850]

Parallel discussion about cells and such in this thread about Milwaukee Batteries:

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/m18-fuel-batteries.363512/page-5#post-7983543

 

[little trees]

I may have mis-linked above (in my defense, greenworks has *way* too many "models", all short on specific differences : ) - the model I ended up with was the 18inch "45cc equivalent" greenworks mfg #2020502 from costco. Something came up and I didn't get to fell/mill the stand I had my eye on, so I didn't put the saw to use until late in the year. wow HORRIBLE. Honestly i can't imagine that my unit is not defective, it (overheats?) and requires a break after less than one full pass. Granted I am pushing it a bit on diameter versus the 18" bar & this cheap saw's power, but this can't be right. As above, I am pretty impressed with my first greenworks saw, it works well enough that I can't remember the last time I used my sthil to fell anything (just to mill which is obviously not going to happen on any size battery saw at today's energy densities).

So, I made the correct decision to buy from Costco ... saw returned. I'm trying to figure out what to buy now. I would prefer another greenworks IFF It's going to be reliable, simply because I have all the batteries drastically reducing the total cost. 8ah batteries in any brand are expensive.. Dewalt now has a 20", 3kw saw.

Multiple brands now have 20", ~3kw electric saw's. Dewalt 20v is the line of all my non-lawn tools; I have a few 6ah 60v, but no where near as many as my (also larger) 8ah 80v greenworks - and a chainsaw chews batteries - so I'm reluctant to get the DCCS677 which I believe is a great saw.

Greenworks site shows now such 20" saws - but miraculously costco is selling one! Unfortunately it's only in a kit with 2 small batteries, making it a poor value for me vs just a bare tool

 

[little trees]

An update: have bought & returned the saw. I may have mis-linked above (in my defense, greenworks has *way* too many "models", all short on specific differences : ) - the model I ended up with was the 18inch "45cc equivalent" greenworks mfg #2020502 from costco. Something came up and I didn't get to fell/mill the stand I had my eye on, so I didn't put the saw to use until late in the year. wow HORRIBLE. Honestly i can't imagine that my unit is not defective, it (overheats?) and requires a break after less than one full pass. Granted I am pushing it a bit on diameter versus the 18" bar & this cheap saw's power, but this can't be right. As above, I am pretty impressed with my first greenworks saw, it works well enough that I can't remember the last time I used my sthil to fell anything (just to mill which is obviously not going to happen on any size battery saw at today's energy densities).

So, I made the correct decision to buy from Costco ... saw returned. I'm trying to figure out what to buy now. I would prefer another greenworks IFF It's going to be reliable, simply because I have all the batteries drastically reducing the total cost. 8ah batteries in any brand are expensive.. Dewalt now has a 20", 3kw saw.

Multiple brands now have 20", ~3kw electric saw's. Dewalt 20v is the line of all my non-lawn tools; I have a few 6ah 60v, but no where near as many as my (also larger) 8ah 80v greenworks - and a chainsaw chews batteries - so I'm reluctant to get the DCCS677 which I believe is a great saw.

Greenworks site shows no such 20" saws - but miraculously costco is selling one! Unfortunately it's only in a kit with 2 small batteries, making it a poor value for me vs just a bare tool

 

[sawfun]

Greenworks has a new "70cc equivilant" 82v commercial saw named H.O.G.

 

[little trees]

Greenworks has a new "70cc equivilant" 82v commercial saw named H.O.G.

Interesting, thanks. Thats more saw than i need, but its great that i wont be trying to buy the largest one any longer. Note that it mentions a 4.3k motor and "pouch" cells - which presumably means lipo (vs cylindrical) as lipo is generally better at soucing high current.

 

[oldbuzzard]

Let me suggest the Husqvarna 350i “Battle Axe”, currently sold only at Lowe’s. I run a crew of volunteer sawyers and we have used the top models of Husqvarna and Stihl pro saws. They were good but expensive. The 350i is only $450 for the whole set up. We now run three and are very happy with them.

 

[Philbert]

Note that it mentions a 4.3k motor and "pouch" cells - which presumably means lipo (vs cylindrical) as lipo is generally better at soucing high current.

Can you explain and expand on the differences between these?

Thanks!

Philbert