Ethanol-Out

[a. palmer jr.]

One thing I read in another thread and kinda agree with, if you use ethanol in your saws, when you get done using them and don't plan on using them for awhile it might be a good idea to drain the gas and run the engine at idle until it dies, that gets most of the ethanol out of the fuel system. I did that with a few of my saws, I'll know later on if it did any good. You don't have to drain the oil, I don't think they put alcohol in our oil...yet.

 

[mantis]

:msp_thumbdn:/\ :msp_thumbdn:/\ :msp_thumbdn:/\
When gas hits $5.00 a gallon again, you might wish that you drove a Prius. I really don't understand the anti-hybrid vehicle mentality expressed by some AS members . If you need a truck with a powerful engine that gets 10 MPG that's fine, but hybrids do have their place.

They do have their place...Right under my truck that gets 10 MPG's

 

[andrethegiant70]

Exactly. This is all about ripping us off and them greedy bastards making more money. I am sick of it. I would love to show those selfish people how the rest of us live. We live in houses where the driveway is all cracked and messed up, the siding doesn't quite match, the deck is well past it's prime, and many more problems. And they get several multi-million dollar houses on the shore of the oceans and lakes, and fly their damn jet all over. I despise them. All they are trying to do is make more money, they don't care about anyone but themselves.

I think we need a few honest oil-drilling companies to be started up and producing oil, inside our own borders. We have the world's largest oil reserve, it's right under North Dakota/South Dakota. There is enough oil there to supply us fuel for over ~100 years at the rate we consume it now.

Conspiracy... those elites are literally trying to force us to be dependant on oil from other countries... as of right now, it's illegal to drill for oil in the lower 48, because of all of those damn environmentalists. They think we'll destroy everything to get some oil, and that is not true. It is quite easy to drill for oil without doing severe damage to the environment.

The whole Gulf incindent could've been completely avoided, and those cheap bastards thought 10,000 bucks for a valve was too much. Hell, they make that every five seconds. We cannot repair the damage that has been done to the swamps down south. Also, the whole situation could've been contained, but our socialist leader didn't let the Dutch ships into our waters so they could start sweeping the oil up. He let that ride for two months before he let them in to clean the oil up. I am sick of people being blind to what the elites and socialist bastards are doing to us.

:rant: :angrysoapbox:

Alright, I'm done.

These are some damn good posts, BTW.

You guys sound angry, and I'm angry for exactly the same reasons. But if I'm not mistaken, some of you fellers are the same ones that don't want the EPA regulating cars and chainsaws and don't want to spend money on fighting climate change. But here you are arguing that the private sector is ripping you off (I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I am of the firm belief that the private sector IS ripping you off). It's not germane to this point, but in arguing for the government regulation of the energy industry, you are setting yourselves forth as democrats of the first order. Like I said, it's not really important, I just wouldn't have expected it.

That said, I am in agreement that the oil industry is a monstrous juggernaut that can't be trusted to administrate itself. What I'd like to see, though, is the government stop subsidizing oil at the pump. That stuff is golden these days, and by paying an artificially low price for it, we devalue it our minds.... we are totally in trouble because of it.

Do you guys watch Top Gear? I'm a nut for it, it's a totally fun show. Every day they reviews cars from every manufacturer (Toyota, Volkswagen, Honda) that they don't even import to this country. Great cars that get unbelievable gas mileage. There's a low-priced Volksy station Wagon that gets 70MPG!! Do you know how much cool stuff I could buy if my car got 70mpg? Maybe a muscle car project! But.. they don't sell it in this country... any guesses why? The rest of the world does just fine paying the real cost of gas and we are losing out on technology, better products, and we are victimized by sleazeball corporate decision-making as a result. Wanna fix a lot of deeply entrenched system-wide problems? Pay the real price of fuel.

 

[redunshee]

Stopped by my local Stihl dealer who had a product called PHASER. Bottle says it "prevents & reverses Phase seperation". Is an Ethanol gasoline additive. One 12 oz. bottle treats 50 gals. of gas or for complete phase seperation reversal , 1 bottle for every 2-10 gals of gas. Don't know if it works but I bought a bottle.
Bob

 

[a. palmer jr.]

These are some damn good posts, BTW.

You guys sound angry, and I'm angry for exactly the same reasons. But if I'm not mistaken, some of you fellers are the same ones that don't want the EPA regulating cars and chainsaws and don't want to spend money on fighting climate change. But here you are arguing that the private sector is ripping you off (I'm playing devil's advocate here, as I am of the firm belief that the private sector IS ripping you off). It's not germane to this point, but in arguing for the government regulation of the energy industry, you are setting yourselves forth as democrats of the first order. Like I said, it's not really important, I just wouldn't have expected it.

That said, I am in agreement that the oil industry is a monstrous juggernaut that can't be trusted to administrate itself. What I'd like to see, though, is the government stop subsidizing oil at the pump. That stuff is golden these days, and by paying an artificially low price for it, we devalue it our minds.... we are totally in trouble because of it.

Do you guys watch Top Gear? I'm a nut for it, it's a totally fun show. Every day they reviews cars from every manufacturer (Toyota, Volkswagen, Honda) that they don't even import to this country. Great cars that get unbelievable gas mileage. There's a low-priced Volksy station Wagon that gets 70MPG!! Do you know how much cool stuff I could buy if my car got 70mpg? Maybe a muscle car project! But.. they don't sell it in this country... any guesses why? The rest of the world does just fine paying the real cost of gas and we are losing out on technology, better products, and we are victimized by sleazeball corporate decision-making as a result. Wanna fix a lot of deeply entrenched system-wide problems? Pay the real price of fuel.

We should be getting cheap oil...who do you think is paying for the defense of these oil-rich countries, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Canada, Mexico?,...the American taxpayer is! In Mexico and Canada, not directly but who would invade a country that borders the US? They know we'd get involved in the war...well, not so much in Mexico maybe..

 

[andrethegiant70]

We should be getting cheap oil...who do you think is paying for the defense of these oil-rich countries, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Canada, Mexico?,...the American taxpayer is! In Mexico and Canada, not directly but who would invade a country that borders the US? They know we'd get involved in the war...well, not so much in Mexico maybe..

Well, you're sort of making my point for me. Even though we don't pay at the pump, we're not getting a deal on oil either. It's just taken out of your hide elsewhere. The American taxpayer is STILL paying for it! The government is just hiding the cost. Joila!! The illusion is complete. Big, puffy, low-tech cars sell better this way.

 

[Fred482]

I don't know the results of Phaser either, but I have some locals running 2-stroke toys that are using it. They are a lot like us, use their stuff, let it sit for weeks and then use it again.

I'll check with them, see if it's working, any adverse effects, etc.

 

[rmihalek]

It sounds to me like these additives are functioning like a detergent since what they do is to allow a polar liquid (like ethanol) to be dissolved in a non-polar liquid like gasoline. That's all a detergent really does. When you wash the grease off your hands with soap (detergent) and water, the soap just acts as an interface between the grease (non-polar) and the water (polar).

On the other hand, I read somewhere that pure isopropanol (rubbing alcohol is typically 70% iso-prop) could help with keeping the ethanol dissolved in gasoline since ethanol is soluble in isopropanol and isopropanol is more soluble in gasoline that ethanol. So, the iso-prop can "pull" more ethanol into the gasoline. But, when atmospheric water vapor begins to condense in the fuel tank, I'm not so sure that iso-prop will be as good as a true detergent at preventing phase separation.

By the way, if you want to try to separate out the water from E10, you don't need to be precise with the amount of water you add to the E10 because the goal is create a supersaturated solution to initiate phase separation. If you added a liter of water to a liter of E10, you'll get 1.1L of water and 0.9L of gasoline (of questionable octane as Mad Professor pointed out). The phase separation will occur in an open or closed container, as long as a supersaturated solution is achieved.

 

[eyolf]

There's a fair share of chest-beating and finger-pointing on this thread: I predict it will soon be shut down. Change is hard; cheap fuel has been illusory, and allowed us all to make choices we might not have made had we known the true costs and eventual consequences. For example, where I live there are more than a few souls that make a long commute to work every day, and back home again at nght, mostly so they can somehow sleep next to the lake they wish they could find time to enjoy.

IN our father's and Grandfather's days these people would have owned a cabin and spent weekends and vacations there...not many could afford the trip daily, and not many wanted to spend all their time looking through a windshield. This thread has posts about how uncomfortable some of these little shoebox go-carts are at 75mph. And some people will moan the blues when the plows haven't gotten the snowy roads clean enough to drive those little skateboards AT 75mph. The ambulance & first responders are just getting home from cleaning up after one such individual who might have wished he had another chance to make a different choice on the highway near my home. Sad for his GF, and the plans that won't ever be, now.

Maybe choices are hard, but some things are harder.

Pro-Mac points out that there appears to be more oil than we can burn in 100 years in what is sometimes called the Bakken formation in ND, Montana, and Canada. Yes there is oil there, but like the oil sands oil farther west in Canada, and the shale oil in the US, it isn't like we can get it cheap. And there isn't as much as some would like us to believe.

snopes.com: Bakken Formation

I guess we can point fingers, call each other "liberals", "conservatives" or even as I tend towards "loony-tarians"...but the politicians in charge mostly like it when we're fighting amongst ourselves over stupid stuff like that. That way we won't notice that a few of them are crooks and the rest are incompetent buffoons. That way they can put off the day when the fiddler needs to be paid a little longer.

Which is what we want, anyway...maybe?

 

[promac850]

There's a fair share of chest-beating and finger-pointing on this thread: I predict it will soon be shut down. Change is hard; cheap fuel has been illusory, and allowed us all to make choices we might not have made had we known the true costs and eventual consequences. For example, where I live there are more than a few souls that make a long commute to work every day, and back home again at nght, mostly so they can somehow sleep next to the lake they wish they could find time to enjoy.

IN our father's and Grandfather's days these people would have owned a cabin and spent weekends and vacations there.

Pro-Mac points out that there appears to be more oil than we can burn in 100 years in what is sometimes called the Bakken formation in ND, Montana, and Canada. Yes there is oil there, but like the oil sands oil farther west in Canada, and the shale oil in the US, it isn't like we can get it cheap. And there isn't as much as some would like us to believe.

snopes.com: Bakken Formation

I guess we can point fingers, call each other "liberals", "conservatives" or even as I tend towards "loony-tarians"...but the politicians in charge mostly like it when we're fighting amongst ourselves over stupid stuff like that. That way we won't notice that a few of them are crooks and the rest are incompetent buffoons.

Good point. No matter what party you are, wake up, look around you. Do you want this? I don't think so. Do the research on the people running for office, and vote for the one who is best for the country as a WHOLE, not the best for you. Greed is the downfall of the human race.

 

[Carl Anderson]

Well, lots of interesting discussion here, much of which I agree with regarding politics and greed being the root of a lot of the mess. I'm not a huge hybrid fan (yet) because I'm not convinced they actually pay off in the long run (yet) but I agree that we have to step up and keep looking for better energy options (but drill in the meantime!). I have the luxury of working from home most of the time but when I have to go in I drive my big gas guzzling old truck to the bus stop and hop a ride from there but many people don't have busses, train, etc available.

Getting back to the Ethanol-Out (or Ethanol Shield, whatever it's called) question for a minute. Seems there is disagreement whether or not these types of additives actually help. I have been using Star Tron for a year or so and I can't really say whether or not is is doing any good or not. I know it does not get rid of the ethanol but if it really does prevent phase separation wouldn't that help quite a bit? Can't hurt, right?

Thoughts? Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller...

 

[Dennis Gauge]

I'll tell you what... I have not had one single, solitary problem with E-10 gasoline in vehicles, chainsaws, tractors, weed trimmers...

At the beginning of summer I fill up a few 5-gallon containers and use them over the course of 2-3 months. No Sta-bil, no snake oil additives.

Nothing misses a beat.

My big pickup has been sitting in the barn since November, with a full tank of E-10 gasoline and a little Sta-Bil ethanol treatment in it.

Last Sunday, I jumped in and turned the key. It fired right up and ran as if I'd been driving it every day.

The way the ethanol nay-sayers have been squawking, my truck should have been a melted blob on the gravel.

 

[Currently]

pure-gas.org

I am lucky to live in a state that allows gas stations to sell what they want. I will drive an extra ten miles to get non-ethanol gasoline.

 

[Mad Professor]

:msp_thumbdn:/\ :msp_thumbdn:/\ :msp_thumbdn:/\
When gas hits $5.00 a gallon again, you might wish that you drove a Prius. I really don't understand the anti-hybrid vehicle mentality expressed by some AS members . If you need a truck with a powerful engine that gets 10 MPG that's fine, but hybrids do have their place.

Yup, can drive your PRIUS, that will then be powered by dirty coal plants or dirty nukes, AC juice, $5 gas will still be a bargain.

P.S. friend jumped on the Prius bandwagon, she was a little upset when the multi- thousand dollar battery system crapped out after couple of years, went back to a petrol fired rice-burner:msp_tongue:

P.P.S. what do they charge to dispose of those hybrid batteries?:msp_ohmy:

 

[grack]

i have two saws down right now gas tank grommet and lines turned to mush a shindaiwa and an alpina both from the 80s no issues with my newer saws if it was just the lines thats to be excpected with age but it jellied the hard to find rubber grommets as well.
a new offroad gas just came out with 90 octane listed as 100 percent gasoline its a dime more than regular gas local stihl dealer swears by it i dont know if its available everywhere i live in wv.

 

[o8f150]

just for the heck of it i am going to get 1 gallon and let it sit for a week and see what happens

 

[Currently]

Distill it and drink it ... don't they make 'shine out of that stuff?

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Distill it and drink it ... don't they make 'shine out of that stuff?

About the same stuff..moonshine can be used as a motor fuel, the higher the proof the better! I doubt if the ethanol made for motor fuel is clean enough to drink but don't know for sure.

 

[muddawg]

I looked up my local ethanol free gas station on the pure gas site

the mgr there said that his supplier "says" its ethanol free
but could offer no proof it acually is

how can "I" tell if its truly ethanol free ?

mike

 

[Chris J.]

Yup, can drive your PRIUS, that will then be powered by dirty coal plants or dirty nukes, AC juice, $5 gas will still be a bargain.

P.S. friend jumped on the Prius bandwagon, she was a little upset when the multi- thousand dollar battery system crapped out after couple of years, went back to a petrol fired rice-burner:msp_tongue:

P.P.S. what do they charge to dispose of those hybrid batteries?:msp_ohmy:

A friend of mine bought a used Prious and has never had a single problem. Some of the very first batteries Toyota used did develop problems, which were replaced free of charge. Here's a link to a long & lively discussion.

Any Prius owners here? - The Acoustic Guitar Forum