Felling a Pine against teh lean

[jefflovstrom]

Sniff sniff, something smells funny; Where's Jeff?opcorn:

Waiting for the pics,,,,opcorn:

Jeff

 

[rwoods]

Crap, do you need to pass a test to post in 101? I don't post in the arborist pro thread, I read it for the drama and fighting, but this one seems safe. People are products of their experiences, and once you have a rope that shouldn't break break, you find it harder to trust them. If that tree looks like the picture in my mind, I would bash it over with a rope for safety, but in the darkest reaches of my mind, knowing that rope will let me down. I might need some therapy. BTW, Ronnie Woods has at least 10 times my skill and experience, so if he's swimming for shore, I've probably already drowned

Jon, I doubt I have either your experience or skill. I just started using the Today's Posts feature which is why I didn't know what forum I was in. Anyway, I usually stay out of this forum as the other forums are more akin to the resources I have available and the situations I encounter. I hire tree guys to cut trees that endanger structures - they can climb, they have help, they have insurance, etc. And they are usually quicker and younger than me.

I jumped into this post because techniques were offered without explanation of why they are used. A proper understanding of "why" is IMHO necessary for safety. Ron

 

[Procut]

Waiting for the pics,,,,opcorn:

Jeff

opcorn:

 

[Stayalert]

I use a toyota tacoma and I would make a face in the desired direction put some tension on it start the back cut and then pull some more since you're using an f350 just pull three over....why waste time with starting the chainsaw?

 

[rwoods]

It occurred to me after reading woodchuck357"s post, that I didn’t explain my use of a rope with stretch. First a word of caution, an unloaded “stretchy” rope is practically useless as an anchor and can be dangerous - the stretch may allow the tree to go opposite of your intended direction. The reasons I use a rope with considerable stretch are so I can pre-load the amount of force I believe is necessary to safely fall the tree and because the stretch allows to some degree a continuous pull as opposed to simply acting as a trigger to the fall. I primarily use this approach because I usually don’t have help and when help is present I am no longer willing to be on the chainsaw end of a falling operation that is relying on another lay person to actively push or pull a tree over. Pros rely on the help of others routinely, each of whom should be a pro at his own task. Ron

 

[mdavlee]

How far is the top leaning in feet? That will show more than 5-10 degrees. I would probably just wedge the thing over and be done with it.

Until we get pictures most of the advice is decent but more pictures will get a better understanding of what needs to be done.

 

[68 Buick]

I would advice to be careful when using a truck or other vehicles pulling over trees. Due to fact a driver could over pull the back cut.

 

[bustedup]

Read your original post and what you plan to do ..........sounds ok but there again neither I nor any of the other pro's are standing there below it so it kinda hard to either say yep or nope


Best advice get someone who is a pro to do it or be there to advise ya on same. I know that not what ya wanna hear but there ya go

 

[RVALUE]

I pulled a very similar pine over today, it broke at about 10 feet in the air.

 

[bustedup]

I pulled a very similar pine over today, it broke at about 10 feet in the air.

Yep things can be very uncooperative lol pulling sticks not the easiest thing to do

 

[jefflovstrom]

If we don't see pic's soon,, then you guy's fed a troll.
Jeff opcorn:

 

[miko0618]

pulling it over will work. theres a few things that can go wrong that you should watch out for. one, maybe less obvious disaster, is leaving too much hinge. you can snap the tree trying to break it. or split the trunk below the notch. then theres how deep you make your face cut. the deeper it is, the easier it will fall in the right direction but the less resistance there is to it falling the wrong way. if its shallow, it will hold better but require more force to fall. so.... you don't want a real shallow face because you could snap the pole at the top trying to pull it over. and you don't want it too deep because it could fail. I would use wedges to fall it. or atleast get it close to plumb and then pull with the truck. I honestly don't like to drop whole trees. its a lot of weight and I don't trust them. if your gonna clean it up anyway, hire a pro to bring it down. a 50' pine is a 1-2 hr climb/drop. you should be able to get that done for $200-$300. maybe less.

 

[woodchuck357]

Oh well, even if he was a troll, the lurkers may have gotten something they can use!

 

[Limbrat]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, when attaching your pull rope to the tree, be it by running bowline or whatever connection you use, make sure it is directly in the face. Otherwise, you are applying unnecessary torque which could possibly cause the tree to twist off the stump and make a big boo boo. All you Arborista Magnificos already knew that

 

[TheJollyLogger]

It's still all about the cut!

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, when attaching your pull rope to the tree, be it by running bowline or whatever connection you use, make sure it is directly in the face. Otherwise, you are applying unnecessary torque which could possibly cause the tree to twist off the stump and make a big boo boo. All you Arborista Magnificos already knew that

Gonna disagree a little, and actually maybe backtrack the thread a little to define some terms. "Pulling" a tree, if done properly, is really just using a lateral force in the top of a tree to shift the center of gravity rather than a lifting force at the base. The goal should be the same, merely to shift the center of gravity in the intended direction of fall. A rope in a tree, whether attached to a truck or any other type of mechanical advantage, be it a comealong, pulley system or what have you is no substitute and will not make up for improper cutting techniques. If your pulling a tree and it twists off the stump, it was probably a result of bad cuts, not the pulling location. Jeff

 

[HuskStihl]

Probably the reason I've never been super comfortable with pulling is I've never had the luxury of having someone who really knows what they're doing in the pull vehicle. That is deserved as I don't really know what I'm doing with a saw and wedges. What always happens is the driver guns it too soon, and breaks the rope, spins the tires, or breaks the tree. As a non-climber, that's why I hire one if the tree could hit something I could not easily replace

 

[mdavlee]

Something like a block face will let the hinge bend more without breaking give more control and less chance of a twist as it goes down. The face cut should be as good as possible for any directional falling.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

When I was on that pipeline contract last spring, we had a pine, about 80-90', maybe 24-28" dbh, fairly neutral balance. I would have dropped it with wedges ordinarily, but protocol was a rope in everything, which is fine. I set the rope, and this "logger" on the crew was going to cut it. No problem, I go traipsing through the jungle, find a good anchor point, loft the throwball back to him, pull the bullrope to me, and set up a 3:1 MA with a couple blocks, good to go. Set some tension, lock it off with a prussik, and start picking thorns out of my hide while he cuts his notch. He calls ready, I start pulling while he backcuts, see the top start moving, then just stop. The only smart thing he did that day was stop cutting before he cut through his hinge. He comes around and helps pull, but the tree is not coming over, I can't figure it out. I capture our progress on the line, and walk, clamber, crawl back around to check the stump, and see he had about an inch and a half dutchman on the notch ( his undercut went about an inch and a half in further than his topcut ). I didn't want to let off the tension to cut another notch above it, so I went back and rigged a 5:1 and we finally pulled it over. When we went back to the stump, there was a 3' long splinter about 4" wide at the back of the hinge. We were no longer dropping a tree, we were ripping it apart. Turns out this "logger" had been a bucker/limber on a crew with a shear, had almost no felling experience.
Moral of the story: know who you're working with, and matching those cuts is crucial to making the whole system work.

 

[HuskStihl]

Turns out this "logger" had been a bucker/limber on a crew with a shear, had almost no felling experience.
Moral of the story: know who you're working with, and matching those cuts is crucial to making the whole system work.

See, I thought you sounded familiar! That was actually one of my better face cuts

 

[TheJollyLogger]

I no it wusnt u cuz u can spel ur own name this gi was a prowd pruduck of the liberty cownty skool sistim