Flipline deal

[rndactsofbrocol]

Hello All,
First off it should be said I climb tree's maybe once a week more for enjoyment and exercise than for money... having said all that I have a question about flip lines:

Thus far in my not so long carreer I've had two different flip line setups... the first was two four foot three braided lines with locking clips on them. From that I went to an adjustable 6 foot three clip with a prusik knot system.
I'm now looking to go with a steel core flip line. Although I have no idea how to rig it. I imagine that the petzl ascendor is used in place of the friction knot and the open end of the flip line is hard mounted to the harness?

I appreciate any feedback you guys can give and am praying I don't get flamed for being a non hard core tree climber.

 

[Ekka]

I much prefer the Gibbs. I'm sure you will to.

http://www.wtsherrill.com/iwwida.pvx?;search_submit

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Why a steel core? Not too many climbers away from the west coast big trees use them. Of course, of course, the ones that do will chime in But they are in the single digit percentage compared to all of the rest of the climbers.

What saddle are you using? With medium or small side d-rings you can set up the lanyard so that you don't even need to buy a mechanical device. Do a search for "DEDA" or double adjusting double ended lanyard. There should be pics of the adjuster hitch setup. If not here then go to Tr**buzz and search.

 

[Tree Machine]

Here's an old picture. The adjuster you ask of (which you call an 'ascender') is shown clearly. A locking biner clips into it. This provides you one-haded, instant, predictable, consistent adjustment. The one shown is a Petzl microjuster, not the one you want. you want a Petzl micrograb, which is exactly the same device, only where you see on mine there is a spring-pin that holds the cam bolt? That should be a through-bolt with a nylon insert locking nut. There is really no reason this device should ever have to come off the flipline. the spring-pin is not bombproof. The bolt is.

That's about it. You mention the one end being hard-mounted to the harness. That's one way. that's how I like mine set up. You can use a Maillon Rapide oval (quicklink), but I very much prefer the Maillon delta (triangular quicklink).

If ya don't hit the flipline with your chainsaw, it could last you a decade. if you touch it lightly with the saw, there are ways to arrest the damage and continue using it without a problem.

As Tom said, you should check out the DEDA system. It offers more variables and it's very cool. The system you're asking about is no-frills, flat-out simple. Quick, efficient, secure adjustability is all you get.

 

[Ekka]

I'd have to argue with that TM.

Having had 2 Petzl Micrograbs I can say they are not as nice as the Gibbs.

The actual mechanism to provide the spring tension onto the rope is that bit of fine wire cable. Over time it frays and stabs you in the fingers then when it completely breaks the adjuster doesn't grab like it should.

This is what happened to me on 2 flip lines. I leant back expecting the cam to bite and it didn't and about another 1.5' of rope came thru before it did.

I got rid of both of them. The Gibbs has a fair dinkum spring and no fraying wires to stick ya.

I also have a moxham grab, I like that to.

 

[Sizzle-Chest]

also, i think you were wondering if you can use a friction knot on a wire core and I dont know if your sposed to but I do all the time and it works well. so you have other options if you dont want to fork over for a mechanical dealy

 

[Ross Turner]

I use a VT with micro pulley on my wire strop does the job & a lot less expensive than mechanical devices.

 

[Ekka]

The big advantage of using a hitch is you can pull it in or let it out whilst there is body weight on it.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Why do you want a steel core line anyway? If you're climbing once a week, you're probably not getting into situations where you really need a steel core. A regular piece of rope is a lot cheaper and I would think, easier to climb around a tree with.

I've never used a steel core, but think I might aquire one someday. Do any of you other guys use a steel core FL often?

 

[Tree Machine]

The actual mechanism to provide the spring tension onto the rope is that bit of fine wire cable.

Ekka, it almost causes me pain to report this to you. That wire is there for when you pull out the spring pin retainer (as in removing is from a rope), it keeps the cam from seperaring and falling to the ground. The wire has ZERO to do with the actual functioning of the piece.

The picture below show the difference between microcender, (left) and micrograb (right). The setup, as stated before, should be the bolted micrograb, making it a permanent, not instantly removable part of the flipline system. That little wire, I cut off as there is truly no use for it.

What Ekka says about the Gibbs is true. Another excellent device, bigger than the ones I show. I like the micrograb as it fits nicely into my left paw.

 

[Chronic1]

The steel core is in case you cut it with a chainsaw.

 

[Tree Machine]

Why do you want a steel core line anyway?

As he says, simply because a wirecore can not be (instantly) severed by a chainsaw. Peace of mind. The flipping action is much better too.

Last Winter I gave my Dad my flipline for his palm-climbing employee, and then created a rope flipline out of 1/2" Stable Braid for myself, which is still on my saddle as I haven't yet replaced the wirecore. I climbed all Winter, Spring and early Summer with the bullrope flipline. I miss the wirecore, though. The wirecore just handles better, it's not floppy and limp like the rope but as everyone points out, you have to shell out some money.

The one below is a big treat, my all-time fave, and it'll set you back about $75, not including the micrograb and biner. This'll be the one I'll go back to as it gives the ultimate in versatility, and peace of mind. A little heavier than the rope, but so what. Not that much more.

You CAN use a friction hitch on a wirecore, but then you add a severable link to an otherwise bombproof system.

 

[kf_tree]

The steel core is in case you cut it with a chainsaw.

that is not true,i prefer the wire core since it is easier to flip up around stubs and thick bark.

i have a few retired steel core lines that i want to test, i want to see how long it will take to cut through the lanyard running a 395.

 

[Chronic1]

Here is how I rig mine...Gibbs ascender with a swivel hook, The attachment to my saddle just feels right.

 

[kf_tree]

I've never used a steel core, but think I might aquire one someday. Do any of you other guys use a steel core FL often?

that is all i use,i keep a 8 foot one on my saddle and add a longer one if it's a big tree.

 

[Chronic1]

You can also adjust with one hand. Yes, it is easier to use due to the fact it's more rigid.

 

[RedlineIt]

rnd,

West Coaster chiming in here, the value of a steel core flipline (for me) is in its relative stiffness to ease advancing it up large diameter trees with rough bark while climbing up on spurs. That and the fact that it is cut resistant, but that's about it.

The closest I'll get to flaming you, you lousy ????ed hobbyist, is to insult your intelligence with an obvious statement - I hope you are not spurring trees for pleasure!

In B.C., the use of a wirecore with steel locking clips is mandated if you are using a chainsaw aloft. Come to think of it, I've never seen that in print, but I used to use a rope flipline in Ontario, purchased from the school that taught me basic climbing, and when I moved to B.C. my employer made me bin it after my first demo-climb. Would not pass BC Workers-comp regs, I was told.

If it weren't for that, I'd gladly dump my wirecore for working around in the crown of most trees. The thing weighs more that the rest of my kit combined. Alongside my lightweight gear, alloy 'biners, micro-pulleys etc., everything pared down to its last gram, this whacking great chunk of steel cable is definitely the odd man out.

Tell me again why you want one?


RedlineIt

 

[kf_tree]

here is my set up

 

[Eagle1]

Nice new equipment there......

That is a very good set-up. I also like wire core. I get more leverage and can flip the line over stubs and nubbs, etc.......maybe that is why it is called a flip line?
Just don't use near hot wires

 

[Chronic1]

The length of the Lanyard also allows me to set it in further above, so when I'm cimbing doing the SRT I'm backed up. I don't like the idea of relying on one lifeline, and I don't like having to re-position the lanyard every 2 foot. Does that make sense ?