Flipline deal

[Tree Machine]

I think she meant like in the freak instance of, say, you make the poor choice of fliplining around the spar below a limb you are to cut. You make a second poor choice of not doing an undercut or V notch first, you just come in from the top. You get 3/4 through the limb, it begins to go, the limb does a peel, taking your flipline down with it, stretching your flipline to the max and offering your frontside a more intimate view of a tree face than you ever thought possible. In the peel your saw was thrown. The tension on the flipline is incredible and you can't undo the biner. You have no saw and can't cut the limb. You were pulled down and are now sitting on the limb you were standing on. You can't move.

You may say "Fat chance", but Bermie is really smart and has extensive training and has seen pictures you can't imagine. She's not making stuff up. She has a good point.

 

[NickfromWI]

And I noticed that of those of you that were nice enough to furnish pictures didn't have any sort of nylon strap to "cut" like Bermie suggested. I would assume (no disrespect meant, Bermie) that you could meerely undo the beaner. Comments?

It is very difficult/impossible to unclip a weighted carabiner. Go hang from one and try to disconnect without taking the weight off.

love
nick

 

[rndactsofbrocol]

I think she meant like in the freak instance of, say, you make the poor choice of fliplining around the spar below a limb you are to cut. You make a second poor choice of not doing an undercut or V notch first, you just come in from the top. You get 3/4 through the limb, it begins to go, the limb does a peel, taking your flipline down with it, stretching your flipline to the max and offering your frontside a more intimate view of a tree face than you ever thought possible. In the peel your saw was thrown. The tension on the flipline is incredible and you can't undo the biner. You have no saw and can't cut the limb. You were pulled down and are now sitting on the limb you were standing on. You can't move.

You may say "Fat chance", but Bermie is really smart and has extensive training and has seen pictures you can't imagine. She's not making stuff up. She has a good point.

Actually I don't say fat chance 'cause some schmuck-o forgot to relief cut something as he was bucking the tree, and got an up close and way to personal taste of the tree before it finsihed peeling. I wasn't trying to disrespectful, but just curious about the other riggings.

 

[Tree Machine]

You're OK. It was a very good question.

 

[Rob Murphy]

Pic of flip

Its raining today soooo...heres a pic

 

[rndactsofbrocol]

Its raining today soooo...heres a pic

So you're using a prusik instead of the ascendor?

 

[Tree Machine]

It's not a prussik. He's using a VT (valdetoin tress) formed with a tress cord. The system is an example of a dual-ended, dual adjustable (DEDA) lanyard. Well-done, Rob.

 

[kf_tree]

Its raining today soooo...heres a pic

your a cat in the hat fan too? excellent reading.

 

[Fireaxman]

I think I saw a thread on this site once about the relative merits of friction hitch vs ascender for flip line adjustment. My take on it was that the ascender is great for ease of adjustment but has been known to fail because of trash (ex. pine bark) under the cam or a weak spring. Friction hitches took a rap for being hard to manage when your flip line gets contaminated by too much pine tar, and of course rope is a weak link in an otherwise all metalic system.

I use the Petzle Microscender but sometimes I back it up with a Blake hitch (above the microscender) for long climbs requiring a lot of adjustment (some of our pines go from 32" at the base to 10" @ 90 feet). I get a little nervous above 70 feet, even fully realizing a fall from 50 feet has about the same result as a fall from 100 feet.

I like wire core. It flips better and it is saw resistant.

I have a short prusik loop of 1/2 inch arbormaster between my D ring 'biner and my microscender. It will make it easier for someone to retrieve my corpse when I die in the tree from a heart attack or stroke (thats how I hope to go). It also adds some flexibility to the link between the 'biner and the microscender, which seems to help keep the D ring and microscender off of the gate of the 'biner.

 

[PowersTree]

I started climbing with a 3 strand double ended lanyard. After I nicked it with a spur a friend gave me a new wire core he didnt like. I tried I with a gibbs accender and hated it. I ordered a prusik with a snap on it instead. I will never go back. I dont have it double ended but I use my climb line with a split tail for advances. I like the wire core for the piece of mind Im not gonna cut through it. Gave me alot more confidence but checking and cutting while not doubled in. Also it flips easier. Just rember....watch out for barber chair. You cant cut a steel core......make sure to control peel.

 

[Eagle1]

Speaking of accenders, I use a gibbs......and was wondering at what point you retire the piece for a new one?

 

[Tree Machine]

I don't know. I've got 8 years on a micrograb. Works just like the day I bought it.

 

[Eagle1]

Yea....I used to use a mirco-grab, but I prefered the meaty look of the gibbs. Mine is working fine and looks fine, but so much depends on it . Ya know?

 

[rbtree]

Those swivel snaps look like they really improve the functionality of the wire core.

Absolutely!! IMO, a non swivel is dangerous, as it is hard to line up for clipping in, and could inadvertantly not get properly clipped....I think that is what happened to Sawdust when he took a long fall (2yr old t buzz thread)I have climbed with nothing but a swivel since they became available. Before that, I use to order my manila flip lines snap less, and install a shackle in the eye, then the snap, which gave a bit of flexiblility.

By the way, a steelcore line could be cut through in a split second, though it would take a direct effort to do so, whereas a normal line would be severed very easily. Personally, I only recall one time when I hit mine hard enough to reach the wire...don't recall if I felt it....that was prolly over 25 years ago.

 

[rbtree]

Just make sure that there is somewhere in the system that can be cut with a knife if ever you need rescue! Don't hard connect a micrograb to the wirecore with a karabiner only, use a short nylon strop in there or use a friction hitch instead. Can you imagine needing rescue and someone has to bring bolt cutters to get you out?

Sorry Bermie, but that's a negatory....connect it direct if using a mechanical grab.....rescue be danged...chances of needing one of those are slim and none.

 

[Fireaxman]

rbtree - Why? What is the disadvantage of the nylon strop or Arbormaster loop between the saddle and the mechanical grab?

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

It's not a prussik. He's using a VT (valdetoin tress) formed with a tress cord. The system is an example of a dual-ended, dual adjustable (DEDA) lanyard. Well-done, Rob.

Am I seeing a different picture than you?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Closed shell rope grabs like the Gibbs and Micro/Macro grab should be replaced when the three main ridges on the cam are worn down.

 

[Tree Machine]

What do you see, Swami Michael?

 

[Dadatwins]

I prefer a distel on my laynard, I am to old school to trust the mechanical ascenders, I am sure they work great but I prefer to look at the rope and feel it move. I used 5/8 three strand for a loooong time and now have a 1/2" double braid made up as a laynard, it is stiff like the three strand yet reacts with the distel very nice.