Frozen Saws

[chainbrake]

I think that you need to separate fuel icing issues from plain old carburetor icing due to high humidity and outside temperatures near or below freezing. The fact that they ran for 3 minutes before stopping seems to indicate regular carburetor icing and not fuel line freezing. I don't think that methyl hydrate (methanol) will do anything for carburetor icing.

Well, SteveSr, the temp. had dropped over a couple of days to -10C (14F) when I got to my saws. The sawdust was frozen when I pulled the clutch covers off that morning. I've now lived in Nova Scotia for about 10 years. I came from the warm West Coast (at sea level) and the very dry BC Interior forests where I didn't seem to have issues with freezing. I'm learning lots of new things about hardwood trees, too. I rarely felled any tree that was not a softwood Out West. The hardwoods that I did cut - maples, western alders, aspen and cottonwoods behaved very differently than the trees I am cutting now. For one thing, most of them were very straight with hardly any lean. It seems like about half the trees I selectively cut are leaning the wrong way - with crooked and unevenly-weighted hangups growing out of them in unexpected directions. Many of them, I just tie onto with cables, snatch blocks and a winch before I even start my saw. I don't like surprises (like a saw freezing up in the middle of a fall).

 

[GenXer]

Irving's St. John, New Brunswick refinery is the largest oil refinery in all of Canada.
They don't list ethanol as part of the products out of that refinery.
I think they supply most of the gasoline throughout the Maritimes.

After the two big tanker car derailments/explosions (QUE & MB), Irving has gotten its crude from Saudi Arabia.
Irving Oil accounts for 1.5% of the Saudi's crude market.
75% of the products coming from the Irving refinery are sold in the USA through a partnership with Standard Oil of California.

I know the fuel for us comes from Quebec on trains, I think there is a refinery there, all the suppliers on same train, then they put the additives in the tank trucks for the different stores. My neighbor used to oversee the fuel tanks in Northern New Brunswick. Purple fuel gets the purple added for home heating fuel, if they run out of home oil, the sell you purple diesel instead. My F-350 burns it just fine...lol

 

[SteveSr]

I know the fuel for us comes from Quebec on trains, I think there is a refinery there, all the suppliers on same train, then they put the additives in the tank trucks for the different stores. My neighbor used to oversee the fuel tanks in Northern New Brunswick. Purple fuel gets the purple added for home heating fuel, if they run out of home oil, the sell you purple diesel instead. My F-350 burns it just fine...lol

In the states they use red dye to separate highway diesel (road tax paid) from kerosene / heating oil.

 

[SteveSr]

Well, SteveSr, the temp. had dropped over a couple of days to -10C (14F) when I got to my saws. The sawdust was frozen when I pulled the clutch covers off that morning. I've now lived in Nova Scotia for about 10 years. I came from the warm West Coast (at sea level) and the very dry BC Interior forests where I didn't seem to have issues with freezing. I'm learning lots of new things about hardwood trees, too. I rarely felled any tree that was not a softwood Out West. The hardwoods that I did cut - maples, western alders, aspen and cottonwoods behaved very differently than the trees I am cutting now. For one thing, most of them were very straight with hardly any lean. It seems like about half the trees I selectively cut are leaning the wrong way - with crooked and unevenly-weighted hangups growing out of them in unexpected directions. Many of them, I just tie onto with cables, snatch blocks and a winch before I even start my saw. I don't like surprises (like a saw freezing up in the middle of a fall).

About all that you can do for carburetor icing is to make sure that the saw is set to intake warm air from the cylinder. Some saws have shutters in the AF housing others might have special "winter" air intake kits.

 

[chainbrake]

I know the fuel for us comes from Quebec on trains, I think there is a refinery there, all the suppliers on same train, then they put the additives in the tank trucks for the different stores. My neighbor used to oversee the fuel tanks in Northern New Brunswick. Purple fuel gets the purple added for home heating fuel, if they run out of home oil, the sell you purple diesel instead. My F-350 burns it just fine...lol

Yes, they used to sell purple gas for boats in BC; Sometimes it made the exhaust run purple out of my F-250s.

 

[Chevboy0167]

I think the "Winter Kit" for my Husky 562 is just a cover that blocks half of the inlet air flow on the recoil housing.... have not really looked over good yet.

 

[chainbrake]

About all that you can do for carburetor icing is to make sure that the saw is set to intake warm air from the cylinder. Some saws have shutters in the AF housing others might have special "winter" air intake kits.

I searched for the manuals and exploded views for my specific Stihl saws online after reading your post SteveSr. Read them from cover to cover. ...Found some things I had just glossed over in years past (and should have paid more attention to). Well, I have now set my intakes to winter mode and learned that I should probably get a part that blocks snow from getting in the bottom of the recoil cover. I'm pretty sure I sucked some snow in that way on both saws when cutting the the exposed part of 2 roots that were jutting out of the trunk in the way of my notch cut and my felling cut. No wonder they froze up! Thanks again for your help.

 

[Joisey]

I searched for the manuals and exploded views for my specific Stihl saws online after reading your post SteveSr. Read them from cover to cover. ...Found some things I had just glossed over in years past (and should have paid more attention to). Well, I have now set my intakes to winter mode and learned that I should probably get a part that blocks snow from getting in the bottom of the recoil cover. I'm pretty sure I sucked some snow in that way on both saws when cutting the the exposed part of 2 roots that were jutting out of the trunk in the way of my notch cut and my felling cut. No wonder they froze up! Thanks again for your help.

Don't feel bad. I'm 66 years old and just learned that I've been mispronouncing and spelling the word "badminton" my whole life. All these years I thought it was pronounced and spelled "badmitton".

Just goes to prove, you are never to old to learn, or make a mistake. I'm glad everything worked out for you.

 

[chainbrake]

Don't feel bad. I'm 66 years old and just learned that I've been mispronouncing and spelling the word "badminton" my whole life. All these years I thought it was pronounced and spelled "badmitton".

Just goes to prove, you are never to old to learn, or make a mistake. I'm glad everything worked out for you.

I'll be 66 in a couple of weeks, myself, Joisey.

 

[bwalker]

I searched for the manuals and exploded views for my specific Stihl saws online after reading your post SteveSr. Read them from cover to cover. ...Found some things I had just glossed over in years past (and should have paid more attention to). Well, I have now set my intakes to winter mode and learned that I should probably get a part that blocks snow from getting in the bottom of the recoil cover. I'm pretty sure I sucked some snow in that way on both saws when cutting the the exposed part of 2 roots that were jutting out of the trunk in the way of my notch cut and my felling cut. No wonder they froze up! Thanks again for your help.

A piece of duct tape can serve the same purpose FYI.

 

[Iffykid]

A piece of duct tape can serve the same purpose FYI.

I was coming to post similar, I usually pulled the recoil cover off so that I could wrap slightly under the cover to help prevent the ends from coming unstuck. Usually found extremely cold with dry powder or sugar snow the worst conditions.

 

[KASH]

Probably 90 percent of people spell and poronounce it wrong me included.
Kash

 

[chainbrake]

A piece of duct tape can serve the same purpose FYI.

I was thinking that.

 

[chainbrake]

I searched for the manuals and exploded views for my specific Stihl saws online after reading your post SteveSr. Read them from cover to cover. ...Found some things I had just glossed over in years past (and should have paid more attention to). Well, I have now set my intakes to winter mode and learned that I should probably get a part that blocks snow from getting in the bottom of the recoil cover. I'm pretty sure I sucked some snow in that way on both saws when cutting the the exposed part of 2 roots that were jutting out of the trunk in the way of my notch cut and my felling cut. No wonder they froze up! Thanks again for your help.

Oh, yeah, when I think back to everything I did, I distinctly remember setting the idling saws down in the snow to warm up when I first started them! Duh!

Snow was never a problem for me before: I have always knocked my trees down, limbed and cut them to lengths just after the leaves are off before the snows hit. Then I winch/drag them out to a landing/roadway when the snow is on the ground and it is just frozen enough to drive on - minimal dirt and rocks.

 

[michael j]

I'll be 66 in a couple of weeks, myself, Joisey.

Me too!

 

[chainbrake]

Me too!

Nothing keeps me happy and fit like a day in the woods. The smoke from the chainsaws is starting to get to me though. I like my falling days to be with a mild breeze in the right direction. For landing/bucking/limbing work I hope for days when there is enough wind to take the smoke away from me, but not so much that it is a dust nuisance. I've been holding off buying new saws until they make battery operated ones with enough power to get me through 20" hardwoods at a reasonable clip. II could even like having a 240V 20A plug-in electric saw at my landing and a 4.5 hp battery saw for in the bush.

 

[Canyon Angler]

In the states they use red dye to separate highway diesel (road tax paid) from kerosene / heating oil.

...which never made much sense to me since K1 clear kerosene (non-road-taxed) is about 35% higher $/gallon.
(I guess home heating oil must be cheaper...?)
Also, I've seen heating kerosene that was dyed red, and other "heating" kerosene that contained no dye and was as clear and white as gin. (Most kero heaters recommend you not use the dyed fuel.) And all the diesel fuel I've ever bought was yellow.

Seems like inconsistency and confusion kinda rule the market...

 

[Westboastfaller]

It's that time of year. I's a small operator - only have 2 working saws.
Last Friday, I rode my saws hard in the rain and locked them away wet in the shipping container - like always.
It was no surprise to me that after sharpening them up on my snowy tailgate and heading out this morning
- both carburetors/fuel lines froze up after about 3 minutes of running.
45 years of chainsaws, and I had never had one freeze - let alone 2!
I took them back to my shop and thawed them for an hour in front of the wood stove.
They worked fine for 5 hours after that.
Has anyone ever put methyl hydrate in a fuel tank in the winter? If so, how much do you use? Thanks.

You can't start winter season with saws that were sealed in a tote from a wet fall day. That's breaking all the rules. I start fresh and clean and dry carbs & saws.. pull the inlet needle and jets and screens out and rinse and dry everything. Heated carbs are good in that situation as they will be dry if you finish cutting with heat on. Any doubt then fire them up as soon as you take them out of the shop (heat) and flick on the heated carb.
Good to go through your carbs anyway for other crap. Beats doing it in front of a fire at -20 to -40 when you are paid on piece work and you just had time off, holding a position and waiting for freeze-up?
At about 30 grand pro saw hours in 30 yrs, I have about 6,000 winter hours in northern BC and Alberta over 12 seasons spread out through seismic, mountain pine beetle (MPB) and pipeline. In G&O and MPB work then Its always past the rain season when we start.
I don't do wet snow!!!
I did a few times in early 90s trying to beat the snow to get tree thinning jobs done. Wet snow in the saplings is nasty. As soon as your saw touches it then snow dumps. Would make a coat out of a black garbage bag so it would slide off your back as you have to try and cover side cover with body. I have made plastic raised snow covers from milk cartons for over recoil cover. Worked good.
My first contract in '92, buddy had a 044 that would freeze up as soon he shut down.

I didn't have any experience then for the northern fall season. I think it was in the edge of freezing, before the wet snow. Got to consider the wind factor when it ramps air. I know Stihl guys that run Husqvarna in the winter. I had no problem with my 262 or 266 in that temp whilst getting through that last week. That was the last yr of leaded fuel in Canada as it changed in '93. Likely it was September so we may have been running summer fuel,still?

It's the fluctuation in the weather that give you trouble as the season goes on as In end of a cold snap.

So say you started in a cold snap with clean dry carbs then I keep the saws outside in the bush.
non-heated carb then always keep it away from heat, especially moist heat like gas vehicle exhaust.
I file by a fire If it makes sense but move it away asap.
Get a lot of powder in the starter cover too when felling. That's when the Iso helps but with fluctuations and all, then it's worth doing the carb(s) again before long.
Some jobs that we had, had heated shops and brought saws in at times then I always toped up inside and idle saw in the back of truck on the way to work to climitize it back. Never fails. Ride In an open box with wind factor and you may get problems. Fire the saw up to see if it's working and then take it for a cold ride then your will have problems. After a cold ride back from the bush..no prob unless you were already experiencing problems. I had a hard time buying into some of this stuff but gladly I was proved wrong.

Anyway, Methyl hydrate is supposed to break down the oil.
There was times I went to Canadian tire and three gas stations in the way to camp..trying to get Iso.
Then I get a 6 pack of Methyl. A bottle is vehicle tank size so good to put in squirt bottle for saw.

I would get about 130 days out off a slashing/felling saw ( ported 357.) About 200 or about 1200 hours from a ported 372
My top ends were immaculate.
New rings and on a new body.
I would squirt Iso or mythel right down the carb and bring up the revs then dround it and let it sit for 5 min
to stop it from racing lean and fluttering down.
I care about making money and not wasting time in front of a fire warming the saw up for what is just going to happen again--or playing mechanic when it's
go- time.
The only part that are breaking down from the alcohol in my saws short lives-- is the diaphragm stretches. One carb or kit on hand.
Some people are not going to have a saw for 20 yrs, right.

 

[chainbrake]

You can't start winter season with saws that were sealed in a tote from a wet fall day. That's breaking all the rules. I start fresh and clean and dry carbs & saws.. pull the inlet needle and jets and screens out and rinse and dry everything. Heated carbs are good in that situation as they will be dry if you finish cutting with heat on. Any doubt then fire them up as soon as you take them out of the shop (heat) and flick on the heated carb.
Good to go through your carbs anyway for other crap. Beats doing it in front of a fire at -20 to -40 when you are paid on piece work and you just had time off, holding a position and waiting for freeze-up?
At about 30 grand pro saw hours in 30 yrs, I have about 6,000 winter hours in northern BC and Alberta over 12 seasons spread out through seismic, mountain pine beetle (MPB) and pipeline. In G&O and MPB work then Its always past the rain season when we start.
I don't do wet snow!!!
I did a few times in early 90s trying to beat the snow to get tree thinning jobs done. Wet snow in the saplings is nasty. As soon as your saw touches it then snow dumps. Would make a coat out of a black garbage bag so it would slide off your back as you have to try and cover side cover with body. I have made plastic raised snow covers from milk cartons for over recoil cover. Worked good.
My first contract in '92, buddy had a 044 that would freeze up as soon he shut down.

I didn't have any experience then for the northern fall season. I think it was in the edge of freezing, before the wet snow. Got to consider the wind factor when it ramps air. I know Stihl guys that run Husqvarna in the winter. I had no problem with my 262 or 266 in that temp whilst getting through that last week. That was the last yr of leaded fuel in Canada as it changed in '93. Likely it was September so we may have been running summer fuel,still?

It's the fluctuation in the weather that give you trouble as the season goes on as In end of a cold snap.

So say you started in a cold snap with clean dry carbs then I keep the saws outside in the bush.
non-heated carb then always keep it away from heat, especially moist heat like gas vehicle exhaust.
I file by a fire If it makes sense but move it away asap.
Get a lot of powder in the starter cover too when felling. That's when the Iso helps but with fluctuations and all, then it's worth doing the carb(s) again before long.
Jobs that we had had had heated shops and brought saws in at times then I always toped up inside and idle saw in the back of truck on the way to work to climitize it back. Never fails. Ride In an open box with wind factor and you may get problems. Fire the saw up to see if it's working and then take it for a cold ride then your will have problems. After a cold ride back from the bush..no prob unless you were already experiencing problems. I had a hard time buying into some of this stuff but gladly I was proved wrong.

Anyway, Methyl hydrate is supposed to break down the oil.
There was times I went to Canadian tire and three gas stations in the way to camp..trying to get Iso.
Then I get a 6 pack of Methyl. A bottle is vehicle tank size so good to put in squirt bottle for saw.

I would get about 130 days out off a slashing/felling saw ( ported 357.) About 200 or about 1200 hours from a ported 372
My top ends were immaculate.
New rings and on a new body.
I would squirt Iso or mythel right down the carb and bring up the revs then dround it and let it sit for 5 min
to stop it from racing lean and fluttering down.
I care about making money and not waistting time in front of a fire warming the saw up for what is just going to happen again--or playing mechanic when it is go time.
The only part that are breaking down from the alcohol in my saws short life is the diaphragm stretches. One carb or kit on hand.
Some people are not going to have a saw for 20 yrs, right.

You are far more experienced than me. You've taught me a few things. Over time, I could learn a great deal from you. Thank you.

 

[Westboastfaller]

You are far more experienced than me. You've taught me a few things. Over time, I could learn a great deal from you. Thank you.

Yeah, there is a fair bit more.
Hard to cram in one post.
The duct tape is better than the snow cover they send out with saws I have seen. Cover calls for 0c. Cover the bottom and the front and a bit of the top. If you over do it then you will hear an iratic idle. It will climb up and down. Clean the cover and heat the tape and cover. Some jobs you are not going to need it. It's convenient to rip off on the fly. What stihls are you running these days?