Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I'm not...
Fun with Ethanol: Lookign for E2 in North Central MA
- Thread starter DougNH
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Justsaws
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ditto. No worries.
Prices were from over a month ago.......
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Now I'm worried. Punch the Cheap (wrong) button and the saw is toast..
hey.. Service work...
hey.. Service work...
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I called some of the terminals around Pittsburgh and asked about the ethanol content of the Western Pa fuel. BP and Exxon are currently zero. Sheetz and Sunoco are both 10 per cent per gallon in all grades. The engineer at BP told me that they dont have any ethanol storage facilities around here and dont plan to add any unless the state demands it. Ive been using BP high test and will stick with it until something changes.
Best wishes,
Bob
Best wishes,
Bob
DougNH
ArboristSite Operative
I believe that's why I got readings between 5% and 10%. It appears that stations here are using 5% in summer and 10% in winter and this is the transition period.
An interesting article about "RVP kick" is listed here:
http://www.epa.gov/ne/airquality/pdfs/EthanolBlendNewEngland.pdf
Summary: mixing ethanol blend with non-ethanol fuel increases volatilty, which is great for using chainsaws in cold weather (but not so good for air pollution). This practice is legal only from Sept 15 through January 1, which just happens to be prime woodcutting time!
B_Turner
Addicted to ArboristSite
I wouldn't say I am worried (up to 10 percent), but if I have the choice between running alcohol and non alcohol gas in my small motors I choose non alcohol.
I believe the non alcohol fuel stores a little better (generator, etc) and I like having my saw fuel as consistent as possible (within reason of course).
Not losing sleep, but I find running straight gas more satsifying somehow.
Besides the fact my vehicles get worse mileage on alcoholed gas.
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Trigger-Time
Addicted to ArboristSite
Now I'm worried. Punch the Cheap (wrong) button and the saw is toast..
hey.. Service work...
Or the delivery guy..........hose in wrong tank!!!!!!!!!
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Magellan
ArboristSite Member
I don't worry about ~5% ethanol. Like Lakeside said, it's fine as long as it's stored properly and for no longer than three months or so. I try to use mine up within two months because we have a lot of high humidity here.
I would be bothered if it was methyl and/or I had to use it (ethanol or methanol) in a bunch of dirty engines - both of those situations would lead to trouble. Alcohol is a good solvent, so in dirty fuel systems/engines, you're looking at a lot of dislodged crud to plug things up. Methyl alcohol oxidizes aluminum and magnesium, which is obviously bad.
Husky137
Addicted to ArboristSite
Doug, what part of North central Mass were you sampling? Just curious since I'm in that neck of the woods.
DougNH
ArboristSite Operative
Except for the fact that it's hygroscopic and can phase separate, oil doesn't mix well with it, it's shelf life is about equal to the life expectancy of a housefly, it is death to older engines with accumulated deposits, it causes engines to run hotter, it has a lower energy output, and the amount of energy used to produce ethanol is ridiculous, no reason.
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
lololol
In the real world, it's no issue... apart from the energy to produce it...
In the real world, it's no issue... apart from the energy to produce it...
Come on Andy!
The non-corn-fed stores much better mixed or unmixed. It won't phase separate at greater than 10% volume: volume either, nor is it hygroscopic (e.g. absorbs moisiture from the air, then phase separates).
I brought a 55-gal drum before ethanol, I used it in my saws, it's got AV gas in it now.
If you run FRESH mix AND drain your tank if the residual is > 2 weeks old, it's "no issue". Otherwise oxygenated fuel is crap!!!
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
The theory is great, but I don't see it happening... I do use synthetic mix oils though...
Given that we service a few thousand saws/trimmers/blowers a year, most owned by complete idiots running the worst gas and lousiest oils, with the switch to 10% alcohol a few years ago I'd have expected a huge rash of burnt pistons and bad engines/carbs, but... no more than "usual"....
And 60 days is fine.... mine go way longer... like 90 to 180 or more.
Given that we service a few thousand saws/trimmers/blowers a year, most owned by complete idiots running the worst gas and lousiest oils, with the switch to 10% alcohol a few years ago I'd have expected a huge rash of burnt pistons and bad engines/carbs, but... no more than "usual"....
And 60 days is fine.... mine go way longer... like 90 to 180 or more.
So, 180 days in full sun, in summer/spring/fall in Tuson Az ( 100 oF +) would be fine???
How about the failed saws you see in PNW, with a separate phase in the gas tank? Maybe not many "more" but how about with the older mixes not meant to deal with this?
Not starting an argument, but if you use the new fuel it WILL turn to crap, much faster than the old stuff. If it fry's your saw, will depend on how you deal with it.
P.S. Damm sthil parts are $$$, gas is cheap!!!!
P.P.S. Think about ca. $1 gallon vs a $500-1000 saw.
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Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
I don't think I've ever seen "phase separated" gas in a machine.. and I see some real turkeys. and yep... it's real damp out here...
When I get a burnt pistion, the first thing I look for a a reason. Almost always it can be pin pointed to a real cause (sometimes by "interogating the idiot owner""..). I just don't get many "can't tell why it blew up" machines...
Yes, it will deteriorate faster, but 60-90 days is reasonably safe.
When I get a burnt pistion, the first thing I look for a a reason. Almost always it can be pin pointed to a real cause (sometimes by "interogating the idiot owner""..). I just don't get many "can't tell why it blew up" machines...
Yes, it will deteriorate faster, but 60-90 days is reasonably safe.
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Magellan
ArboristSite Member
I have. I offered to have a look at a couple Homelite saws (bought from Home Depot) that belong to a fellow from work. As a matter of practice I dump the gas out of each saw into a cup separately so I can get a look at what was in there. The gas had separated in the larger saw and after digging deeper I found the piston was scored pretty well. The piston probably never would have been damaged if he'd just swapped the gas when he found it was hard to start. He said he had spent a total of more than two hours cranking on it and resting when he'd get too tired. It would fire a little and die here and there, he said.
At least it wasn't a good saw to begin with.
mtfallsmikey
Addicted to ArboristSite
Any difference in separation between regular Stihl oil and HP Ultra?
Lakeside53
Stihl Wrenching
Ultra is supposed to better than Dino with alcohol laced fuels.
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