Heating Cost per Hour of Five Fuels

[habanero]

I whole-heartedly agree with the point about efficiencies being variable, but just because it makes it complicated doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.

As a point of reference, say someone is trying to decide between two HD pickups, one with a gas engine and one with a diesel. If they just look at the cost of the fuel (say $3.00 for gas and $3.25 for diesel), they would think the gas engine would be advantageous due to the lower cost of fuel. But, if you take into account that the diesel pickup gets 20 mpg while the gasser gets 15 mpg, then the diesel actually has the lowest fuel cost. I realize there are dozens of other factors to consider, but it illustrates my point.

A seller showing this chart to a homeowner trying to decide whether to buy a new woodstove versus a natural gas furnace is deceptive any way you slice it, unless the relative efficiencies are considered. There are numerous other costs and considerations that need to be accounted for, of course, but if you're going to compare fuel costs, you have to account for the fact wood stoves aren't as efficient as gas furnaces (and really not as efficient as electric).

 

[KsWoodsMan]

...including firewood. I used no efficiency variables, just plain heat content. I thought you might like to see your heating costs based upon various fuel prices and usage rates. For firewood, ash is very close to the heat content that I used. The average wood stove can comfortably deliver 50,000 BTU/hr. I have never seen a table showing heating costs per hour of alternative fuels, so this is probably published nowhere else.

Please comment and discuss. I welcome suggestions for improving the table, and ways that it can be used, recognizing that some of you pay prices outside the ranges shown. Thanks for looking and perhaps this will be helpful.

Nice start, needs to include efficiencies and account for different BTU's from differing wood.

 

[goblin]

Since efficiency ratings of stoves are as bogus as mpg ratings on vehicles, it would be noteworthy to include that in a separate table/chart, but to use it as an accessory to the data/chart that you already have.....and not abandon it altogether for alternate data that in all likelihood is skewed the opposite way.

 

[ktm rider]

I have been trying to find coal in bulk here in Mi. and no luck if anyone know how to get it post it!! I am also curious what is poisonous about coal ashes I mean I figured it would have some by products in it do you have any specifics my mother grew up in Ky. and they burned coal they put the ashes on the garden I told her that seemed crazy but she claimed it didn't hurt anything it was good for the garden so I exclaimed "So thats whats wrong with me"!! HA

I'm not sure I would want to put the ashes on the garden but i still don't think it is poison.

Coal klinkers are the result of a few things. lack of enough combution air can cause klinkers but mostly it is poor quality coal is the main reason for klinkers.

Alsos there are two main kinds of coal. Anthracite and Bituminous. Anthracite is considered hard coal and is the cadillac of coal and burns very well but is rather expensive ( 250+ per ton) Bituminous coal is alot cheaper but the quality varies wildly. The bituminous coal in this area is actually very high quality and burns great ( $55 per ton)

Here is a link to a coal burning forum i frequent. I'm sure you can find out where you can get some coal in your area frm these guys..

http://nepacrossroads.com/

 

[Wood Doctor]

OP,
I was not able to open your file/attachment in your opening post.
My computer is almost 10 yrs old and cranky at times.

I do have this pellet site calculator saved to check every so often.
Just plug in the $$ values for each type of fuel, and it will do the
calculation for you.

http://www.pelletheat.org/3/residential/compareFuel.cfm

Here's Pic that's a little smaller.

You may be missing the Adobe Reader that you can download free from Adobe at their website. The Reader would allow you to expand the table using vectored graphics for the sharpest possible screen image.

 

[Wood Doctor]

A seller showing this chart to a homeowner trying to decide whether to buy a new woodstove versus a natural gas furnace is deceptive any way you slice it, unless the relative efficiencies are considered. There are numerous other costs and considerations that need to be accounted for, of course, but if you're going to compare fuel costs, you have to account for the fact wood stoves aren't as efficient as gas furnaces (and really not as efficient as electric).

I agree 100%. But it doesn't take much to just bump the prices in my table for wood by 20% to make the comparison.

On the other hand, the wood stove will not nail you with a monthly infrastructure charge and any special meter reading fees either. The point I am making is those are variables that vary everywhere. What I am trying to report here are "burner tip" costs for comparison.

I received a PM from a member who said his natural gas bill rate is $22.50/mcf and didn't see anything that high on the posted table. Frankly, that's deplorable! :censored:

No wonder so many people are thinking about wood heat for the first time in years.

 

[windthrown]

Well, that chart is out of date with this year's energy price spike. I mean, we are paying about $2.99 a gallon for propane here. And fuel oil was way over $3.60 a gallon here this summer. Fortunately it has dropped like a rock with gas lately. Also the utility company wants a 30% hike in NG here this month. Hopefully they will only get 10-15%. And electric rates in California are skewed; they start at 12 cents a KwH for a certain amount, and then run over 18 cents. The more over the 'baseline' you use, the more you pay.

So yah, that first chart is out of date. The other one is better, where you can tweek the fuel rate and tweek the efficiency to dial in the effective comparison. It even has softwood vs hardwood for wood heating. In that one, NG and wood heat are the most cost effective here, even paying $240 a cord for hardwood and with the NG rate increase (which is why it is going up up up to compete with other types of energy).

I wood like to become wood dependant again. Living on a place with 85 acres of trees was home heating security. Of course, it could also all burn down some year and then it would be gone. Nothing is safe. But relying on NG here at my brother's house sucks. We are at the mercy of rate hikes and taxes and fees, hurricanes in Texas and whatever else.

 

[habanero]

I received a PM from a member who said his natural gas bill rate is $22.50/mcf and didn't see anything that high on the posted table. Frankly, that's deplorable! :censored:

No wonder so many people are thinking about wood heat for the first time in years.

Our last gas bill (range and dryer) worked out to about $21/Mcf if you account for all the fees and such. Of course we don't use much gas, so the % that is fees is quite high.

I agree with the spirit of what you're trying to show and gas prices have gotten pretty crazy. But wood prices have also generally shot up as well, at least around here.

Dad was talking the other day about how this is just like in the 70's during the first "wood heat revolution".

 

[ray benson]

Our mid Sept. bill, the natural gas was $23/mcf and the mid Oct bill came today and it was $15/mcf. Prices are wildly fluctuating.

 

[Ohiowoodguy]

Great chart!! Too bad some anal-retentives are trying to nit-pick it to deathopcorn:

 

[Wood Doctor]

Our mid Sept. bill, the natural gas was $23/mcf and the mid Oct bill came today and it was $15/mcf. Prices are wildly fluctuating.

Ray, even the NG rate in Nebraska peaked at $13.40/mcf when gasoline peaked, and then last month dropped in the last half to $8.50/mcf. None of these usage rates include the fixed charges, so bump that by at least 10%.

Regardless, firewood is significantly cheaper at the burner tip. We pay an average of $190 a cord or $100/pickup truckload for mixed hardwoods:

 

[windthrown]

Anal retentive?

If you want anal retantive, I will give you anal retentive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofn8-3SWd8M

 

[Wet1]

Nice start, needs to include efficiencies and account for different BTU's from differing wood.

+1

 

[KsWoodsMan]

How was ANYTHING about previous posts anal retentive ? He welcomed discussion on how to improve it. From how he put it, It was a work in progress.

Since no one person was named as being the AR here does that mean all who gave their opinion that was asked for is such ? Or just one in particular ?

 

[Moss Man]

I try not to make it too complicated, I put wood from our land in the stove and we are warm. Nobody elses hands got involved either.

 

[046]

super nice calculator... enter in current pricing for most accurate picture.

wood is calculated as delivered price... that's the only one most of us can get off the grid by harvesting our own. the first few years... it may actually cost more to harvest wood due to equipment purchases.

but it doesn't take long for equipment to payoff..

Here's a link to an on-line calulator that allows you to enter your own variable.


oops forgot the link, try this

http://www.**********/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/

 

[WetBehindtheEar]

I've burned coal in our combination wood-coal furnace. It has its pluses and minuses. A big problem for me is ash and clinkers. You end up with poison. Can't use it on the garden or comfortably dispose of it anywhere. I wouldn't use it again.

- Disclaimer -
I'm not saying that you shouldn't burn coal - just take into consideration the side effects of using it
/Disclaimer

If a person has lots of ash and clinkers, the best place for that is in asphalt roads...

There is also the issue of the corrosive nature of coal-fired exhaust. It requires that you have a chimney system that can handle it. I'm pretty sure that the new stainless liners can handle the acidic coal exhaust but I'm not 100% sure. If you still have a clay flue tile liner, the coal exhaust will eat up the joints between tiles.

Also, you are generally putting WAY more soot and Nitrous oxides (remember acid rain?) and some mercury too into the atmosphere. One of the reasons that urban areas got rid of coal-fired heating systems was because of the soot problem, local air quality sucked before Natural gas became more of the norm.

Most modern coal-fired power plants have REALLY advanced soot and pollution scrubbers on their stacks - technology that is awfully darn expensive for you or I to put on our coal burning stove in the basement.

I suppose if you live out on a mountain somewhere where the nearest neighbor is a mile away, it presents less of a problem.

Another thought here. While coal is WAY cheaper and WAY more energy-dense, it is most definitely NOT carbon neutral. Wood heating is much closer to that because the carbon that is released was captured in the last 10-50 years rather than the tens of millions for the coal.

Again, I'm not trying to dismiss coal entirely - the economic benefits are AWESOME. It just doesn't work for me. I think the enviro-freaks would light my house on fire if it was discovered I was burning coal. Guess I'd be warm then!

 

[KsWoodsMan]

If you want anal retantive, I will give you anal retentive:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ofn8-3SWd8M

Those are some expensive BTU's

I don't think I could have laughed any harder when he hit that last note.

 

[RON58]

Must not be very high quality gas or his a$$ would have shot flames. I'm sure some of you guys have seen that happen???????

 

[KsWoodsMan]

Must not be very high quality gas or his a$$ would have shot flames. I'm sure some of you guys have seen that happen???????

If it was lacking in quality he sure made up for that with quantity and reverberation.

I had a 5-stepper once and wondered how I managed that. Must have been my diet. Guess it was the beer and eggs for breakfast that day.