How I baby my 2 stoke motors.... 30-1 instead of 50-1

[bwalker]

So many blanket statements in this thread. The old-timers still believe that more oil in the mix causes carbon, regardless of what oil it is. Many oils today actually burn cleaner at heavier ratios because of the detergent. But there are also many that leave excess carbon at heavier ratios.

As far as heat, it takes heat to make power. Until you reach the temperature at which the motor can’t survive, more heat is better. Just because that saw was 84° hotter using more oil doesn’t mean anything. Anywhere near the muffler and the temp can change from 300° to 800° by moving the thermometer 1/2”. That saw was probably tuned lean out of the box and then it was way too lean with the added oil. One thing is for certain, the operator had no idea either way.

If you only cut firewood for your home you can run about any ratio you want south of 100:1 and you’ll never wear a saw out. One thing you will never see on here though is a guy who preaches his 100:1 ratios and comes back asking why the bearings took a shît in his saw

It's like every old wives tale about two cycle oil repeated in one spot!

 

[preventec47]

I am now convinced that TC3 2 stroke oil and oils developed for marine outboards is not optimum for hot chain saws.

I looked at the JASO list
https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdfAnd I see that Huskvarna, Echo, Stens oils for chainsaws are all "JASO FD"
so I think anything I buy by the gallon should also meet JASO FD rating.

I do not think a lot of "SNOWMOBIL" oils meet the JASO FD rating
For guys who are buying snowmobil oils for use with their chainsaws,
do their spec sheets specify for air cooled motors ? Just because of the enviroment in which they are used, I dont think snowmobile motors get as hot as chainsaws in hot summer heat...

Here are the gallon snowmobile oils sold by WALMART online:

Red Line RED41005 2-Stroke Snowmobile Oil $60 shipped​

( says Air Cooled engines )

Castrol 2T 2 Stroke Super Snowmobile Oil, 4 Liter $30 shipped​

says JASO FB and NOT JASO FD

CITGO Petroleum 214659 1 gal Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2 Cycle Snowmobile Oil $32 plus $16 shipping​

Sea-Doo/Ski-Doo XPS 2 Stroke Synthetic Oil Gallon 779127 $66​

Polaris 2882202 Synthetic 2-Cycle Engine Oil $42​

Lucas Oil 10847 Snowmobile Oil - 1 Gallon $43 Full Synthetic​

Lucas Oil 10557 Land and Sea Oil - 1 Gallon Semi Synthetic $34​

Royal Purple ROY04511 1 gal Snow 2-C Snowmobile Oil $68 plus $10​

I cannot see the spec sheet details for any of these oils at the Walmart website....
Do any of you have these oils on hand to read the labels ? or have checked out their websites ?

 

[LesL]

I enjoy “experimenting” as much as the next person but not with my £900 saw. Stihl have high tech laboratories with 500 chemists and engineers. And they test their kit all around the world. They rightly have a reputation for high quality they want to retain. For a few pounds more I will continue to use their oil at 50:1. Added benefit that now I have to use E10 it has fuel stabiliser unlike the cheaper brands.

 

[bwalker]

Nothing wrong with FC either. There was a small change between FC and FD. The Jump from FB to FC was much more substantial.
Citgo/Mystik Sea and Snow and Citgo aircooled are both FD.

 

[bwalker]

I enjoy “experimenting” as much as the next person but not with my £900 saw. Stihl have high tech laboratories with 500 chemists and engineers. And they test their kit all around the world. They rightly have a reputation for high quality they want to retain. For a few pounds more I will continue to use their oil at 50:1. Added benefit that now I have to use E10 it has fuel stabiliser unlike the cheaper brands.

I woukd bet you Stihl has zero chemistsbqorking on two cycle oil. Why would they? They do not mfg two cycle oil. The manufacturer of oil they sell even varies by country.
Stihl oil as sold in the US is pure garbage for a premium price.

 

[preventec47]

JASO EXPLAINED
http://www.mototribology.com/articles/jaso-explained-part-2-2-stroke/

 

[LesL]

I woukd bet you Stihl has zero chemistsbqorking on two cycle oil. Why would they? They do not mfg two cycle oil. The manufacturer of oil they sell even varies by country.
Stihl oil as sold in the US is pure garbage for a premium price.

Shocking if the actual quality varies by where it’s made. I’m in the UK and my container of Stihl HP Super says made in Germany to “ISO-L-EGD Low Smoke-Fuel Stabaliser”.

 

[Canyon Angler]

I bought a case of synthetic Mobil 1 Racing 2T oil (for air-cooled motocross bikes) back when that oil was discontinued about 12 yrs ago or so at a deep discount from Auto Zone and I am still burning it.

If I were to buy new oil today I would probably buy synthetic Motul 800.

OIL THREAD YAY!!!

 

[Canyon Angler]

it is difficult if not impossible to find the genuine air cooled 2 stroke oil in large gallon containers at prices similar to outboard motor 2 stroke oils. It seems like a scam to get us all to pay way more than 100 bucks a gallon

Amazon sells 4 liters (over a gallon) of synthetic Motul 800 for $63 delivered.

 

[camel2019]

I am now convinced that TC3 2 stroke oil and oils developed for marine outboards is not optimum for hot chain saws.

I looked at the JASO list
https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdfAnd I see that Huskvarna, Echo, Stens oils for chainsaws are all "JASO FD"
so I think anything I buy by the gallon should also meet JASO FD rating.

I do not think a lot of "SNOWMOBIL" oils meet the JASO FD rating
For guys who are buying snowmobil oils for use with their chainsaws,
do their spec sheets specify for air cooled motors ? Just because of the enviroment in which they are used, I dont think snowmobile motors get as hot as chainsaws in hot summer heat...

Here are the gallon snowmobile oils sold by WALMART online:

Red Line RED41005 2-Stroke Snowmobile Oil $60 shipped​

( says Air Cooled engines )

Castrol 2T 2 Stroke Super Snowmobile Oil, 4 Liter $30 shipped​

says JASO FB and NOT JASO FD

CITGO Petroleum 214659 1 gal Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2 Cycle Snowmobile Oil $32 plus $16 shipping​

Sea-Doo/Ski-Doo XPS 2 Stroke Synthetic Oil Gallon 779127 $66​

Polaris 2882202 Synthetic 2-Cycle Engine Oil $42​

Lucas Oil 10847 Snowmobile Oil - 1 Gallon $43 Full Synthetic​

Lucas Oil 10557 Land and Sea Oil - 1 Gallon Semi Synthetic $34​

Royal Purple ROY04511 1 gal Snow 2-C Snowmobile Oil $68 plus $10​

I cannot see the spec sheet details for any of these oils at the Walmart website....
Do any of you have these oils on hand to read the labels ? or have checked out their websites ?

Most snowmobile oil meets the TC rating witch is also for air cooled equipment

 

[camel2019]

Shocking if the actual quality varies by where it’s made. I’m in the UK and my container of Stihl HP Super says made in Germany to “ISO-L-EGD Low Smoke-Fuel Stabaliser”.

Stihl oil in Canada at least is made by castrol.

 

[djones]

As a user of old saws from the 70's with a recommended mixture rate of 20-1, I find that running 40-1 in everything has no adverse effect on my equipment once the carb is suitably adjusted. Naturally my wife finds the mixture still too rich and requires that I strip down to my skivvies before entering her domain. As you wish, my dear.

 

[dave ensign]

Oil ratio is strictly a matter of age, {NOT THE AGE OF THE EQUIPMENT} but rather the age of the mixer. If
your old enough to have used SAE30 at 16/1 then you tend to still mix a little rich and probably drink a little
more.

 

[LesL]

Most snowmobile oil meets the TC rating witch is also for air cooled equipment

From my Stihl 362 handbook….

 

[camel2019]

From my Stihl 362 handbook….

That’s TCW not TC. TCW is for water cooled outboards TC is for air cooled

 

[LesL]

That’s TCW not TC. TCW is for water cooled outboards TC is for air cooled

The TC and TCW standard was apparently superseded years ago. I read even the very lowest grade oils meet that spec. In the UK it’s usually the ISO organisation that sets the standards.

 

[preventec47]

The TC and TCW standard was apparently superseded years ago. I read even the very lowest grade oils meet that spec. In the UK it’s usually the ISO organisation that sets the standards.

I dont think I have seen any brand of 2 stroke oil that specifies it is exclusively for air cooled motors only other than the oils from the chain saw mfgrs ie Stihl, Husqvarna, Craftsman, Echo etc. I thought I was doing ok because I had a gallon and a half left of
Quicksilver pure synthetic outboard motor oil and using it in my chainsaw. Sure it seems to run ok but evidently I am shaving hundreds of hours off the useful life of
the machine by doing so. About 15 years ago Pennzoil sold a specific for AIRCOOLED
2 stroke motors oil but when I google it I see it has been discontinued. Qakerstate
says it has a specific air cooled oil but I have not found it anywhere for sale.

 

[camel2019]

That’s TCW not TC

The TC and TCW standard was apparently superseded years ago. I read even the very lowest grade oils meet that spec. In the UK it’s usually the ISO organisation that sets the standards.

Tc is still for air cooled equipment though and TCW3 is the new outboard boat motor spec

 

[LesL]

I dont think I have seen any brand of 2 stroke oil that specifies it is exclusively for air cooled motors only other than the oils from the chain saw mfgrs ie Stihl, Husqvarna, Craftsman, Echo etc. I thought I was doing ok because I had a gallon and a half left of
Quicksilver pure synthetic outboard motor oil and using it in my chainsaw. Sure it seems to run ok but evidently I am shaving hundreds of hours off the useful life of
the machine by doing so. About 15 years ago Pennzoil sold a specific for AIRCOOLED
2 stroke motors oil but when I google it I see it has been discontinued. Qakerstate
says it has a specific air cooled oil but I have not found it anywhere for sale.

Its such a minefield. Right or wrong I feel more comfortable running my expensive saw and brushcutters with high quality oil approved by the manufacturer. I found the ISO standard document for the current highest grade ISO-L-EGD oil (ex Stihl HP Super) and it requires really extensive testing and fuel stabilisation to meet that high standard. In the UK Stihl HP Super is £35 for 5l so not that expensive for the peace of mind.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

As a user of old saws from the 70's with a recommended mixture rate of 20-1, I find that running 40-1 in everything has no adverse effect on my equipment once the carb is suitably adjusted. Naturally my wife finds the mixture still too rich and requires that I strip down to my skivvies before entering her domain. As you wish, my dear.

After all the debate of oils it still goes on with no restriction. I use more oil than most here by double. I buy Supertech at Walmart which works just fine. I think that the ratio sweet spot is 32:1 to 36:1 and have more than 60 years of use to back it up. By far the biggest issue is tuning which changes. A hot day vs. a cold dry day etc. Thanks