How sharp is sharp?

[Jackbnimble]

I've purchased new chains that cut like warm knives in warm butter and I always hope that they will never grow dull. Soon enough, unfortunately, I forget how nice it was to be cutting with a super sharp chain and I become accustomed to a so-so sharp chain and before you know it, I'm trying to cut warm butter with a tissue. I have this tendency to try to adapt to conditions as they are (I'm married) so I convince myself the chain is cutting just fine when it really isn't.

So, how sharp do you guys keep your chains, how long do you expect them to remain super-sharp and what is realistic? (Have you guys seen these fellas free-hand cut beautiful lumber from logs with great ease? The chips of wood spitting off their chains always seem nice and big.) I've begun trying to sharpen my chains by hand (with an attachment/kit from Oregon). As of yesterday afternoon, one that I spent hours sharpening, cut right through some water without much effort.

 

[scheffa]

I sharpen my chains after every tank to second tank

 

[CR888]

lf you run multiple chains you can swap out when needs be and sharpen at the end of the day when you can focus getting them right for next time.

 

[ft. churchill]

I sharpen here about once an hour using just an Oregon file guide, take about ten minutes for a full comp 20" or 24"
Saves alot of time cutting thru the wood. And I usually need a water break in an hour anyway.

 

[Frogfarmer]

You want the chain as sharp as you can possibly get it and keep it that way. It is easier on the saw engine and cutting attachments. I'm not much of a hand filer but I can use a saw grinder like a pro. I have spare chains for when one gets dull. At the end of the day I sharpen chains.

 

[ATH]

The more dull it gets the harder it is to get it back to "real sharp", so that is why more frequent filing is good. I openly admit I am terrible at hand sharpening. I bought a bench top sharpener, and that has helped a lot...however, I know I still need to learn to hand sharpen. 10 years later, and maybe my hand sharpened chains aren't useless anymore! If I hand sharpen after a tank or two (assuming I haven't been in the dirt), I can keep it going well. If I wait longer than that or get mess it up in dirt or rock, I am best off bringing it back to the shop and doing it on the sharpener.

 

[Jackbnimble]

See, part of my problem is that I stink at sharpening. I am getting better, but not too sure why. It seems like too much hit or miss. But, the chips are larger and there is less fine sawdust, but I can't seem to get all the cutting angles really, really sharp on all the cutters, all the time. I'm running a 28" 91 DL chain, so it takes about 15 years to sharpen all of them, you know; a least it feels like it. And I still don't know why those little tabs stick up from the bottom of the chain groove. But, ordered another bar and chain from Baileys, so will compare them. I just like cutting when the saw is running at its optimum.

Somebody would be smart to hold an in-person class on chain sharpening where you could get hands on experience with an expert instructor. Too often, online videos don't help me to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

 

[redoakneck]

Practice, magnification, and chain vise have been the most important things I have found to improve my hand filing ability.

1 to 3 tanks per chain in hard wood.

Takes a lot of practice to get your muscle memory down. Took me a year to feel comfortable doing left side cutters.

You should be able to hold the saw with right hand on throttle and have the saw feed itself thru the wood. Not recommending one hand sawing, but if you are pushing with the left and dawging in and pulling up on right hand u are too way too dull.

 

[Jackbnimble]

Thanks for the encouragement. I've tried magnifying the cutters but it's hard to see the surface clearly, for me. Plus, I'm not really sure what a super sharp chain would even look like without an expert's guidance. We're talking tiny, tiny fractions of inches, right?

 

[redoakneck]

Use a new chain to see what it should look like.

 

[redoakneck]

Pittsburgh!!!!! What???? Cincinnati native here, we both have an exciting game Sunday.


How much does Big Ben really weigh, camera says more than 240??

 

[redoakneck]

Need really good lighting from several angles to see properly.

 

[Jackbnimble]

Appreciate your help. When I blow up the picture, it gets fuzzy.

But, I can look at a sharp cutter and a not so sharp cutter under magnification and be unable to tell exactly what the differences are in their respective cutting capacity. The surfaces may be smooth and sharp on both, but if the angles are not quite right, off by just a smidgen, the cutting suffers. Do you know what I mean?

 

[Philbert]

The surfaces may be smooth and sharp on both, but if the angles are not quite right, off by just a smidgen, the cutting suffers.

The angles actually mean very little (!). Really. They can be off by several degrees and you would not notice a difference in most normal cutting.

The cutting edges are what's important. Each cutter has two: a top cutting edge and a side cutting edge. They sould both feel like a razor sharp knife. If these are not sharp, the chain will not cut the wood fibers, but drag and tear them.

Some guys obsess over their gullets, hooks, etc., but the cutting edges do the cutting. After that, you can work to get all of your angles the same; getting the cutters the same length; setting the depth gauges right; optimizing for a smooth cut and the type of wood.

I don't want to sound condescending, but if you don't know what you want your finished cutters to look like, all you are doing is removing metal.

Philbert

 

[blkcloud]

I ain't gonna fight no dull saw... Usually about the second tank I'll lightly run my file across the teeth just to touch them up.. Once I put a chain on I never take it off until it's worn completely out..

 

[BC WetCoast]

Go over to the sawmilling forum and look through some of the posts by Bob Love (BobL). You will learn everything you need to know and more about cutting angles, depth guage angles, hook length, gullet depth etc etc etc.

It took me a while to get to hand filing properly. What really clicked in for me was to look at the tooth I'm filing and compare it's length to the adjacent ones. You can tell if there is a significant difference. File as required to even the tooth lengths out.

Another thing I read was that most of the cutting is done at the top corner of the tooth, and 2mm along the top place and 2mm along the side plate.

I like to cut a bigger chip than others, so my depth guages are filed a little lower, but I'm working primarily in softwood.

If you look down the chain from the tip (toward the engine) there shouldn't be any shiny lines along the cutting edges. It's the same as looking at the cutting edge of a knife, if you look down a knife edge and see shiny bits, that's where metal is chipped or bent and can reflect light. A sharp edge has nothing to reflect light. Same for saw teeth. If you look at the tooth edge with a magnifying glass, you don't want the cutting edges to be rounded over, just come to a sharp edge. Try looking at a tooth when it's dull and then file it and look again.

Use the reference lines on the top of the tooth to keep your angles consistent.

 

[Jackbnimble]

The angles actually mean very little (!). Really. They can be off by several degrees and you would not notice a difference in most normal cutting.

The cutting edges are what's important. Each cutter has two: a top cutting edge and a side cutting edge. They sould both feel like a razor sharp knife. If these are not sharp, the chain will not cut the wood fibers, but drag and tear them.

Some guys obsess over their gullets, hooks, etc., but the cutting edges do the cutting. After that, you can work to get all of your angles the same; getting the cutters the same length; setting the depth gauges right; optimizing for a smooth cut and the type of wood.

I don't want to sound condescending, but if you don't know what you want your finished cutters to look like, all you are doing is removing metal.

Philbert

Absolutely. That's why I don't know what to do. I've been removing some metal and then feel each cutter to see if it feels sharp. When all of them seem to be pretty sharp to the touch, I take her out and begin cutting wood.

Sometimes, it seems to cut better because it is sharper and sometimes it doesn't.

 

[Jackbnimble]

I ain't gonna fight no dull saw... Usually about the second tank I'll lightly run my file across the teeth just to touch them up.. Once I put a chain on I never take it off until it's worn completely out..

Thanks

 

[Philbert]

Which Oregon guide are you using?

A photo would help. So would close up photos of your cutters.

Philbert

 

[scheffa]

File every tank, three swipes a tooth, gives me time for smoke between tanks