How young is too young ?

[Whitespider]

When my oldest was 8 years old we left him home alone while the wife and I went to the company Christmas Party... he had instructions to make himself a pizza for supper. While the pizza was heating one of the electric elements in the oven shorted-out, igniting the grease and pizza when he opened the door.

At 8 years old what would your kid do??

Mine quickly dialed 911, then ran to my shop and grabbed the fire extinguisher. He had the fire out and the doors propped open to clear the smoke before the fire department even showed up. We arrived home just as the fire trucks were leaving... my son was on his hands and knees with a bucket of soapy water cleaning up the mess. My son made no excuses, he looked both of us square in the eye and said, "I'm really sorry about the mess, I'll have it all cleaned up before I go to bed." See... even though he knew it was not his "fault", he knew it was his actions that had created the mess... and therefore he had a personal responsibility to clean it up.

My wife started crying, and said she'd help him clean it up... she told him she had some responsibility also, the oven hadn't been cleaned in awhile.
*

 

[wv311]

Amen to that !!!!

 

[Toy4xchris]

My theory on age is more of their mind set than their actual number age. If you teach them how to respect the machines, proper safety and sometimes even what to do when things inevitably do go wrong I see no harm in letting them do things as long as you are supervising them. My dad had me running forklifts, running the over head crane and loading and parking the shop truck at 8 or 9.

 

[flotek]

When my oldest was 8 years old we left him home alone while the wife and I went to the company Christmas Party... he had instructions to make himself a pizza for supper. While the pizza was heating one of the electric elements in the oven shorted-out, igniting the grease and pizza when he opened the door.

At 8 years old what would your kid do??

Mine quickly dialed 911, then ran to my shop and grabbed the fire extinguisher. He had the fire out and the doors propped open to clear the smoke before the fire department even showed up. We arrived home just as the fire trucks were leaving... my son was on his hands and knees with a bucket of soapy water cleaning up the mess. My son made no excuses, he looked both of us square in the eye and said, "I'm really sorry about the mess, I'll have it all cleaned up before I go to bed." See... even though he knew it was not his "fault", he knew it was his actions that had created the mess... and therefore he had a personal responsibility to clean it up.

My wife started crying, and said she'd help him clean it up... she told him she had some responsibility also, the oven hadn't been cleaned in awhile.
*

Nice ! You should feel fortunate that child services didn't remove him from your home . The pizza may have been his responsibility but* he is your responsibility at only 8 . I guess I don't need to tell you how foolish and irresponsible that decision was on your part considering what happened . He wasn't irresponsible you were to leave a young kid alone while you were out at a party ,now just because you were shooting grizzly bear at 6 , skydiving at 7 and survived your childhood doesn't mean it's okay for kids to do risky hazardous tasks

 

[Whitespider]

Nice ! You should feel fortunate that child services didn't remove him from your home.

Removed from my home?? On what grounds?? Is there some Iowa law stating an age limit when a child can be left home alone that I should be made aware of??
That incident, and the way he handled it, just reinforced my belief he could be trusted at home alone for even longer periods.
Get over it... your belief system don't apply to me and mine.
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[svk]

Removed from my home?? On what grounds?? Is there some Iowa law stating an age limit when a child can be left home alone that I should be made aware of??
That incident, and the way he handled it, just reinforced my belief he could be trusted at home alone for even longer periods.
Get over it... your belief system don't apply to me and mine.
*

In most places in the country you would have been a world of hurt with CPS for leaving someone that young home alone. I'm not saying what you did was wrong as I think my 8 yo would be just fine at home alone too.

 

[Whitespider]

In most places in the country you would have been a world of hurt with CPS for leaving someone that young home alone

Really??
In all seriousness...
What are you basing the "most places in the country" statement on??
Heck, the only thing the fireman said to me was the batteries in the smoke detector should be replaced after it had gone off like that.
The boy told me the deputy sheriff had been there earlier, but left after talkin' to the firemen.

Heating up a pizza in the oven is hardly a risky hazardous task as described by flotek.
However, that incident was 20 years ago... no doubt some governments think they know better than the parent now.
*

 

[Whitespider]

Do you guys have any idea how many kids come home from school each day and let themselves in the house... and are on their own until mom and/or dad get home from work 2, 3 or 4 hours later?? Heck... I know of at least a dozen kids that are, or have been, under the age of 10 that do, or did that.
*

 

[svk]

Yes seriously. You are quite lucky being tucked into a quiet spot in Iowa where many people still have values from the 50's. Don't base your experiences there as a standard of what is accepted elsewhere. There are do-gooders just looking to call people in. Leave a kid in a car outside a gas station in California while you go in to buy a soda and if the cops get there before you come out you'll be going to court. Happens all over the country. I've read some stories on this and one person had commented on the fact they had called in "dozens" of such cases. Obviously she needs to mind her own business. Then if you mix a person like that with a rookie cop you will get the book thrown at you.

I'm not saying it's right. But that's how it is.

 

[stihlguy]

Went out by the wood pile Sun. after lunch, my 10 yo grandson was splitting wood with a wedge and sledge hammer, very accurate with his swing. He is not as accurate with the Fiskars, makes a lot of "kindling"!!!! He did have safety glasses on.

 

[Dalmatian90]

Really??
In all seriousness...

Welcome to the world of incompetent, butt covering bureaucracies.

New York City 1979...is your kid ready for First Grade:

8. Can he travel alone in the neighborhood (four to eight blocks) to store, school, playground, or to a friend's home?
http://www.chicagonow.com/little-ki...our-child-ready-for-first-grade-1979-edition/

Connecticut 2015:

His age. Experts believe a child should be at least 12 before he is left alone, and at least 15
before he can care for a younger brother or sister. These are the minimum ages. Not every child is ready then.
http://www.ct.gov/dcf/cwp/view.asp?a=4106&Q=480780

Leave a 14 year old watching an 8 year old in your car at the supermarket? If someone calls the cops, you're getting a court summons and a visit by DCF that day if you're lucky. If not you're going to jail. DCF will make you sign an agreement not to let the 14 y/o watch the 8 y/o again, or they will take your kids with them that day.

Complete, utter, and total ********, but it was the state authorities go by and most are too scared of a not crossing their t-s and dotting their i-s and getting keel hauled over the rare cases when things truly go south.

And it's getting worse. Our nitwit of a Governor today (who spent a few years a prosecutor in Brooklyn) announced he basically wants to treat as juveniles anyone arrested who is 25 years old or less. Your health insurance has to cover your kids till they're 24. Y'all see a trend?

 

[Whitespider]

You are quite lucky being tucked into a quiet spot in Iowa where many people still have values from the 50's.

Not so sure I'm lucky... but I'm thinkin' my kids sure-in-hell are.

Saturday morning the youngest (age 7) and I were home alone (mom was doing a catering job and sister was at work), I needed to run into town for some welding rod and a couple other things. I walked in the house to see if the boy was out'a bed yet... he was sittin' in front of the TV, in his pj's with a bowl of cereal.
I asked him if he wanted to ride along... he didn't.

"You know the rules... right??"
"Yeah."
"I'll be back in a little while."
"Kay dad."

That's all that was needed to be said... I was gone for about an hour and a half.
When I got home he was sittin' on his little ATV (can't ride it without tellin' someone)... he'd washed his cereal bowl, brushed his teeth, made his bed, gotten dressed, let the dog out to do his "business", and shut down the TV and lights.

"I'm gonna' take a ride dad."
"Got all your stuff done??"
"Yep."
(I waved my hand.)
*

 

[hseII]

I was driving at age 10... I was also carrying a firearm and hunting alone at that age...
I had free reign on the lake with the motor boat at age 9... wearing a life jacket was not required...
I had my first mini-motorcycle at age 7... no adult supervision was required when I rode it...
I rode my bicycle on the streets of the neighborhood, several blocks out'a sight of the house, before I even started school... weren't no bicycle "helmets" then neither.

My oldest son has never shown any interest in saws and such, but he was shooting a .44 Magnum with a modified handle at age 6, I gave him his first rifle at age 7... he practiced with it on our shooting range unsupervised.
My youngest son hasn't shown much interest in firearms, but he's all about power equipment. I gave him his little ATV just after his 5th birthday, and he's been riding it all over the property for three years... including in the woodlot out'a sight of the house. He "helps" with any maintenance or repairs to it... if he didn't "help", it wouldn't get done, that ATV is his responsibility, not mine. He's been running the log splitter since well before that, and even taken a few turns on the old grass cuttin' machine. He has a keen interest in the saw, but at age 7 he just don't have the strength to hold it yet... maybe next year.

So-called "maturity" is more about personal responsibility than anything else. I teach my kids that they are, first and foremost, responsible for themselves. Actions have consequences, it's your actions, not your parent's decisions, that determine if those consequences are positive or negative. Show me personal responsibility for your actions (including the bad actions)... and I'll allow you more rope. As a kid I was held personally responsible for my actions, no matter what they were... I was never allowed to make excuses, and no one ever made excuses for me. The "heroes" I looked up to were an example; I provide that same example to my kids, and I hold them to the same standard... but, now-a-days, I appear to be the minority. I really get tired of the blaming something other than the person... the excuses... and saying something like, "You can't blame him, he's just a little boy", does a huge disservice to the man the little boy eventually becomes.

There ain't nothing wrong with allowing kids to be kids, they need that also... but there's a time and place for everything.
*

This.
All Day Every day.

I was running a skid steer the summer I turned 4, picking up rocks on a flat site that my grandfather cleared: I was instructed to leave the throttle where it was and had already been shown how to control it.

At 8 yrs old, I was cutting, raking, and feeding hay with our JD 2150.

Watching my son, I know that each child is different, and these decisions must be made on a case by case basis.

My uncles normally did the sawing, as my dad didn't burn wood. He had and still has saws, but he still doesn't use them much.

The first time I ran a saw was an 041 that my uncle had; I was 15.

I started buying my own saws @ 18 yrs old.

I do most of dad's cutting for him now, cause he still doesn't care about saws.


I have a cousin that is 9 months older than me that always got into everything.

He stepped on a running bar when he was small and dang near cut his foot off.

 

[USMC615]

'Small town' scenarios Spidey, where everyone knows everyone, folks related to people in authority, i.e. LE, fire dept, courthouse, etc, etc, scenarios like you said concerning the pizza can happen with no consequences. At least the house didn't burn down. Here, the responsibility would've fell squarely on your shoulders and the wife's shoulders, even with the outcome not being disastrous. If unsupervised young kids are hungry and need a snack, load up the cabinets with cereal, chips, load up the fridge crisper with ham, Bologna, cheese, etc. that'll tie them over without involving a stove/oven being used.

Here, DFACS would've taken the child in a NY minute from you and planted him/her in a foster home until such time as you lawyer up, (cha-ching, cha-ching) and go to court. Even though a fire didn't break out, etc, the fact that LE/fire dept shows up and adds two and two together and no adult home at the time...would seal the deal. No ifs, ands, butts about it.

Back to the OP...no way in hell would I strap a 10 yr old on the wrong end of simply, the worlds most dangerous hand-held power tool. This ain't no macho game to play with children so as we grow older, we adults can sit around shooting the **** with a cold beer one day, exclaiming my kid started this then, that then. Children ain't got the thought process, reactionary process nor skills at that age...even with the most modest cc saw. Let'em play with a small splitting axe on small rounds, chipping away and kindling away till they get some more yrs on them, and if bored of that, back to toting and stacking splits. Simply my opinion, but part of my theory is having my children grow into young adults with all their limbs and head still attached, save the macho 'junebug was running a chainsaw, jackhammer at 6 BS' for another day.

Again, simply my opinion...but if you feel the need to strap a child to the wrong end of a chainsaw...maybe a local community college, evening class of Common Sense 101 might be in order.

 

[hseII]

Simply my opinion,

Again, simply my opinion...but if you feel the need to strap a child to the wrong end of a chainsaw...maybe a local community college, evening class of Common Sense 101 might be in order.

First and Foremost, Thank You For Your Service. It's because of People like you, that we have the Freedoms to agree to disagree.

Seriously, Thank You.


New York is Phucked.
Keep that Liberal Filth Up There.


What is most needed is not DEFAX, CHILD SERVICES, etc.., but Self Respect, Respect for Others, Personal Ownership of One's Actions, And a Big Dose of Mind Your Own ******* Business.

Edit:
You said New York Minute.

You Are From Georgia Too.

Cool.

 

[svk]

What is most needed is not DEFAX, CHILD SERVICES, etc.., but Self Respect, Respect for Others, Personal Ownership of One's Actions, And a Big Dose of Mind Your Own ******* Business.

Amen

 

[USMC615]

First and Foremost, Thank You For Your Service. It's because of People like you, that we have the Freedoms to agree to disagree.

Seriously, Thank You.


New York is Phucked.
Keep that Liberal Filth Up There.


What is most needed is not DEFAX, CHILD SERVICES, etc.., but Self Respect, Respect for Others, Personal Ownership of One's Actions, And a Big Dose of Mind Your Own ******* Business.

Edit:
You said New York Minute.

You Are From Georgia Too.

Cool.

I couldn't agree more with folks minding their own business...if you could get the county/state agencies to follow suit. It just doesn't work that way nowadays. And as mentioned before, the idiots who have nothing better to do when a child/animal is left in a vehicle for only 60 secs and then turn nark and make a phone call, not knowing nothing about nothing...but playing 'Superman with a cell phone call to 911 to save the day.'

...ain't no liberal **** here...yeh, I be's from and live in Warner Robins. And we will agree on a helluva lot more than we will ever disagree on. I'd venture to say 99.9% to .1% ratio.

As far as the original post...every situation is different with children...we all know that. Rural life, city life, geographics certainly plays a role in how soon kids mature in certain areas and skills. It's a case by case thing, and no doubt, parents know best what they can and can't expose their children too, and when.

Another reason I finished my previous post with what I said concerning common sense...thinking to myself and not typing it...I've seen a ton of young parents nowadays who can't teach/raise themselves...much less teach offspring anything. I'm sure we all see this everyday we walk the planet. Things have changed 180 degs from my growing up in the 60's-70's, and folks who grew up in the yrs prior to that timeframe.

 

[hseII]

I couldn't agree more with folks minding their own business...if you could get the county/state agencies to follow suit. It just doesn't work that way nowadays. And as mentioned before, the idiots who have nothing better to do when a child/animal is left in a vehicle for only 60 secs and then turn nark and make a phone call, not knowing nothing about nothing...but playing 'Superman with a cell phone call to 911 to save the day.'

...ain't no liberal **** here...yeh, I be's from and live in Warner Robins. And we will agree on a helluva lot more than we will ever disagree on. I'd venture to say 99.9% to .1% ratio.

As far as the original post...every situation is different with children...we all know that. Rural life, city life, geographics certainly plays a role in how soon kids mature in certain areas and skills. It's a case by case thing, and no doubt, parents know best what they can and can't expose their children too, and when.

Another reason I finished my previous post with what I said concerning common sense...thinking to myself and not typing it...I've seen a ton of young parents nowadays who can't teach/raise themselves...much less teach offspring anything. I'm sure we all see this everyday we walk the planet. Things have changed 180 degs from my growing up in the 60's-70's, and folks who grew up in the yrs prior to that timeframe.

I think it's because the gov't has become so involved with so many different things, and then continuing to push the boundaries.

Take the Syrian situation for example: the Governor or State's Voting Body, etc.., should have the final say so, not swine in Washington.

There are Children in bad situations, but it's no one else's business how we raise our kids as long as they are cared for And loved.

It burns me up that now, if a child misses more than 8 days in 1 school year, there is a real possibility that child will be held back: no matter how good his grades are.

Indoctrination into Socialism, plan and Simple.

 

[Erik B]

I wish more parent would forget about there job being to raise children and instead focus on raising adults. We already have way to many 20 something old children. We need more of the 20 something old adults.

 

[svk]

I think it's because the gov't has become so involved with so many different things, and then continuing to push the boundaries.

Take the Syrian situation for example: the Governor or State's Voting Body, etc.., should have the final say so, not swine in Washington.

There are Children in bad situations, but it's no one else's business how we raise our kids as long as they are cared for And loved.

It burns me up that now, if a child misses more than 8 days in 1 school year, there is a real possibility that child will be held back: no matter how good his grades are.

Indoctrination into Socialism, plan and Simple.

Very true.

We have two friends who are social workers. Both of them deal with really bad, heart wrenching crap on a daily basis that makes leaving a kid at home or car look like nothing....and they (social workers, CPS) are often powerless unless things get REALLY bad. That's why it infuriates me how they throw the book at someone who makes an honest mistake in judgement.