Husqvarna Cordless?

[zogger]

The Ryobi is really slow compared to the others out there. There have been some tests already. If I really needed a e saw I would look at the more major players or still stick with the extension cord. I am actually waiting for Husqvarna to come out with the backhandle type of their TH version. That would definatly be very high on my list.

7

it could very well be the slowest in the bunch, but they have economies of scale and expertise when it comes to battery operated tools and a big distribution network. They can come in a lot cheaper in other words for perhaps a good enough battery saw, with the battery being usable in a lot of other equipment.

Thats what a lot of people are choking on, the dang things do cost quite a bit, the ones from stihl/husky/bosch/oregon. There is no doubt whatsoever once you get into the 36 to 40 volt range they become practical to use small saws, from any of the manuacturers, just the price point is really high. We need the competition to get those prices down, same as gas chainsaws have actually dropped in price and increased in quality and features over the years.**

If all these companies can get a small electric saw down to the price point of an equivalent entry level gas saw, theyll sell a bunch more. Or at least closer in price.

For non pro use, for joe homeowner use, there is a huge advantage of having say one or two powerheads, using the same batteries, and a host of different attachments.

Pro use is a different animal, not as much sticker shock when you can get your money back on these tools rapidly after working a couple jobs, plus have a tax deduction.

**I know some will immediately argue this, but you just dont see many saws in pro use anymore other than the old big giants for big trees, all the other saws are of more modern construction with antivibe, chainbrakes, etc. This is very generally speaking of course, I am sure there are exceptions, but broadly speaking this is true. And on cost we have those threads going showing what chainsaws used to cost, way more expensive than today.

the battery saws will get there, too, and perhaps more rapidly, the advances in electronics and batteries tech today is much faster than most advances in fuel engines.

edit: wanted to be clearer. Lithium Ion battery tech has been a MAJOR serious game changer when it comes to portable rechargeable power for various devices. Compared to carbon zinc, nickel metal hydride and nickel cadmium, well, no contest, just tons better over all.

 

[Philbert]

. . . a good enough battery saw, with the battery being usable in a lot of other equipment.

A number of them appear to be offering lines of outdoor power equipment (OPE) using the same battery pack. Of course, like with contractor tools, the batteries are not interchangeable between different manufacturers (!).

STIHL, Oregon, Ryobi, Bosch, etc. have announced 36 to 40 V lines of saws, trimmers, mowers, etc. Seems to be moving from the novelty phase to something widely available. Interesting that several of these are available in Europe but not in the US yet.

Philbert

Lots of power tools (STIHL)
OREGON® PowerNow™ 40V MAX* Cordless Chain Saw Tool System (Only shows chainsaw - others announced)
Ryobi 40V Lithium-Ion
Bosch Garden Tools
Black & Decker Tools | Electric Lawn Mowers, Cordless Trimmers & More (36V battery - have to root around for the tools)
HUSQVARNA T536 Li XP® - Professional chainsaws (top-handled)
HUSQVARNA 536 Li XP® - Professional chainsaws (rear-handled)

 

[7sleeper]

A number of them appear to be offering lines of outdoor power equipment (OPE) using the same battery pack. Of course, like with contractor tools, the batteries are not interchangeable between different manufacturers (!).

STIHL, Oregon, Ryobi, Bosch, etc. have announced 36 to 40 V lines of saws, trimmers, mowers, etc. Seems to be moving from the novelty phase to something widely available. Interesting that several of these are available in Europe but not in the US yet.

Philbert

Lots of power tools (STIHL)
OREGON® PowerNow™ 40V MAX* Cordless Chain Saw Tool System (Only shows chainsaw - others announced)
Ryobi 40V Lithium-Ion
Bosch Garden Tools
Black & Decker Tools | Electric Lawn Mowers, Cordless Trimmers & More (36V battery - have to root around for the tools)
HUSQVARNA T536 Li XP® - Professional chainsaws (top-handled)
HUSQVARNA 536 Li XP® - Professional chainsaws (rear-handled)

As far as I have understood(at least for Husqvarna) demand has totally surpassed expected production capabilities.

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[Philbert]

As far as I have understood(at least for Husqvarna) demand has totally surpassed expected production capabilities.

Do you have any idea if that is based on the saws or the Li-Ion batteries? I understand that there are a limited number of manufacturers for the latter.

Philbert

 

[zogger]

Do you have any idea if that is based on the saws or the Li-Ion batteries? I understand that there are a limited number of manufacturers for the latter.

Philbert

If there develops enough demand, well see aftermarket competition in the batteries there, just like for cellphones, and laptops, etc. And if they are like the aftermarket prices we see with those, the batteries could well be half price compared to OEM. Of course youll have some winners and losers there as well, quality will vary.

They really should make battery packs more user friendly as regards rebuilding them with generic cells. Its possible, involves a little hoop jumping. they could make them snap in and snap out though, they just dont want to to keep people from using brand X wrong chemistry cells. Or offer it as a service, cheap, part inducement to invest in the tool/battery/charger system. As it is now, no rebates for clapped out batteries AFAIK.

With that said, I dont, but should, know approximately how many lithium ion battery manuacturers are out there, but I would guess it is a lot more than just a few, more like dozens maybe? china must have bunches of them, along with japan, s. korea, some other asian tigers, etc. I am not following that particular tech as much as I used to.

 

[Philbert]

With that said, I dont, but should, know approximately how many lithium ion battery manuacturers are out there, but I would guess it is a lot more than just a few, more like dozens maybe? china must have bunches of them, along with japan, s. korea, some other asian tigers, etc. I am not following that particular tech as much as I used to.

No doubt the price will come down with time.

There are a lot of manufacturers of cheap, alkaline batteries (AA, AAA, C, D, 9V) out there - I don't buy them anymore. Cleaning up one leak convinced me. Still will buy Ray-O-Vac if they are on sale, but with low expectations - they DO NOT last as long as Energizer or DuraCell, despite their labels. The time between 'Black Friday' and Xmas is a good time to stock up on these types of disposable batteries on sale.

The rechargeable batteries are different, and some of the stuff they use is tricky to deal with. I have been told by manufacturer's reps at tool shows that there are limited number of companies who can make these reliably, especially the Li-Ion. If they are not well made . . . .

I know that the local Batteries Plus place will crack open the Ni-Cad battery packs for power tools and re-build them from cells. Maybe they will be able to do these with the Li-Ion cells too?

Philbert

 

[7sleeper]

We had a discussion and some nice action videos here

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/213899.htm

and "wouter" said they were sold out really fast!

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[Philbert]

We had a discussion and some nice action videos here

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/213899.htm

and "wouter" said they were sold out really fast!

7

Thanks for the link! - Did not see that thread. Nice to see it in action.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Just saw a Husqvarna FaceBook post with this link.

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/battery-series/husqvarna-battery-series/

Are these now available in the US?

EDIT: Heard informally that they were released in the US as of 8/1/14 - don't know if that means that they are available at dealers - anybody know?

Batteries are listed separately:

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/battery-accessories/#batteries

Philbert

 

[zogger]

Just saw a Husqvarna FaceBook post with this link.

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/products/battery-series/husqvarna-battery-series/

Are these now available in the US?

EDIT: Heard informally that they were released in the US as of 8/1/14 - don't know if that means that they are available at dealers - anybody know?

Batteries are listed separately:

http://www.husqvarna.com/us/accessories/battery-accessories/#batteries

Philbert

Spendy, hopefully the quality is there. The larger battery pack is the equivalent of about almost six of their large batteries, so that is some decent runtime. Not cheap though...

 

[TK]

They are available. Unless the dealer is already involved in cordless tools - I wouldn't count on it. Niche market.

 

[Philbert]

Unless the dealer is already involved in cordless tools - I wouldn't count on it. Niche market.

In Post #50 in the thread below, I listed a more recent list of a large number of 36-40 volt tools available - I think that you will see increasing interest in these.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-36v-cordless-chainsaw.177392/page-3

The Husqvarna tools have gotten good reviews from our European members, and a lot of guys have asked about a top handle saw for in-tree use. This might be a real advantage that you have as a Husky dealer.

I, personally, would not look forward to wearing that 18 pound backpack battery, but I would like to try the 2 saws with their basic batteries.

Philbert

 

[zogger]

Disagree on niche market. One merely has to pay attention going to any hardware store to see the surging popularity of cordless (battery) tools, especially those where one battery can operate different tools. There's low budget, mid range, and top of the line, all priced accordingly.

http://www.freedoniagroup.com/World-Power-Tools.html

Cordless (battery powered) tools are the fastest growing market segment with all power tools, projected to steadily increase.

Short paste from the quite expensive pay site

"World power tool demand is forecast to increase 4.5 percent annually through 2016 to $28.1 billion. The Asia/Pacific region will be the fastest growing market, followed by North America. In the US, gains will be driven by a rebound in housing starts and manufacturing activity. Cordless electric tools will be the fastest growing segment."

Husky, Stihl, Oregon, Makita, Ryobi, Bosch etc wouldn't all be getting in on this unless their own internal market forecasts said the same thing.

A LOT of this, especially in the US, I will contend, is because of the dismal year to year performance of gas powered cheap tools due to ethanol contaminated gasoline. The "yank your arm off and the &^^%$% thing don't start" syndrome has hit hard the past several years, and people are starting to bingo to the fact that their battery drill always starts, so why not other tools?

Yes, if people just use canned fuel and changed filters and only used wicked fresh gas and yada yada..bottom line is, 99% of people DON'T do this, all the shop guys warning them or warnings in the manual get ignored for the most part, and their 1-400 buck home renter gas powered tool stuff croaks after one season when it sits over winter..two of those in a row gets them thinking.

Multiple tools, same battery system is the market wave of the future for a BIG, really big part of the market. And as battery and electric motor tech evolve, it will get even bigger. There's no comparison between performance increases with gas engine stuff and battery tech, if there were, you could be toting a 3 lbs saw that put out 10 horse, it is some ridiculous extreme example like that. Battery and electric motor tech has increased that much in the past decade,, and shows no sign of stopping.

Like..every year for electronics is way more than a decade with gas engines.

Look at saws built in the 90s to today..is there *that* much difference? Now think of your cordless drill from the 90s to what you can get today.....now extrapolate this another decade.

 

[Philbert]

I'm calling around to local Husky dealers to see who plans to stock them.

Since I already have the Oregon 40 V saw, I am unlikely to buy one. But I've been waiting three years to try it, and I would like to at least hold them in my hands!

Philbert

 

[TK]

$600 for a saw and a battery. Another $130 to charge the battery. That's $730 plus tax.

I can't give Oregon tools away. They're grossly overpriced and they don't cost near that much. They don't share the Husqvarna name, but I'd get laughed at trying to sell a $730 battery powered chainsaw. People don't even want to pay $730 for a 372xp LOL

 

[Philbert]

The pricing for these tools is definitely aimed at a certain market.

Was not sure what the markup was on these, compared to petrol Husky products, or if they were offering saw/battery/charger packages, like the other guys. But I bet you will see interest in that top handle saw.

Maybe put up a sign with a photo and offer then on special order?

Philbert

 

[zogger]

$600 for a saw and a battery. Another $130 to charge the battery. That's $730 plus tax.

I can't give Oregon tools away. They're grossly overpriced and they don't cost near that much. They don't share the Husqvarna name, but I'd get laughed at trying to sell a $730 battery powered chainsaw. People don't even want to pay $730 for a 372xp LOL

Yep, high end early adopter prices, same as drills used to be (I paid over 200 for a panasonic drill in the 90s that a 30 buck black and decker can beat today). The lower end stuff at the big box stores is selling though, and it will continue as part of the multi tools in the garage for around the yard segment buyer, and as the boomer generation gets older, and they have disposable income and want something that will reliably start and do the branch in the yard.

Husky and Stihl in particular are marketing their offerings for richer suburbanites who will pay more for the name and performance, and in-town pros who have a business deduction.

So far, these aren't aimed at the pro logger or weekend firewood guy (obviously), they are for joe suburbia who has half a dozen yard tools. And also the urban tree trimmer who sees the advantage in some jobs as to "quiet operation", and for some rough construction work cutting beams to fit up in the air, etc.

 

[weedkilla]

I'll buy one - I start at 7, I'm at a job before 8. Can't really use a saw till 9 if there are humans around. I figure I'll have a nice little pile for the chipper by the time it's appropriate to start it.
I'll also use it clearing MTB trails, which is usually a "on my way home" job, and it would be nice if no one knew I was there.

Admittedly, there are a couple of things in front of a battery saw in the to be purchased list - but it would only take one good job to change that.

 

[7sleeper]

$600 for a saw and a battery. Another $130 to charge the battery. That's $730 plus tax.

I can't give Oregon tools away. They're grossly overpriced and they don't cost near that much. They don't share the Husqvarna name, but I'd get laughed at trying to sell a $730 battery powered chainsaw. People don't even want to pay $730 for a 372xp LOL

Well you are obviously unaware of the users of these tools. They are the well paid middle and upper class. They don't want to fool around with any oil mixing gas thingy, they are the IPhone generation. Plug in and you are good to go. And your summary of price above doens't include the typical problems, with old mix=> having the store rebuild the carb, troubles starting a saw due to infrequent use=> let's go to the dealer, etc.. That all adds up to the cost of regular saws if you include the value of your time! And these electric saws are not any high production equipment, although they are quite fast! You go to your tool shed a cut up a branch or two that feel during the last storm.
People are buying them here and so will they become the next big thing in the US!

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[TK]

The market I service is a town where most equipment is dropped off wearing dress shoes. Every development in this town is your typical 3500sq.ft. colonial with 2-3 car garage. Installed lawns and ornamental plants the owners can't even name. Obviously not everyone fits that profile, but it is very predominant. These are also the people that want to spend the least amount possible on something. Getting them to spend a hundred bucks to tune up their riding mower is a challenge at the least, getting them to spend over seven hundred bucks on a tool they rarely use - not happening --- around here. Every market is different, I understand. This local market won't be supporting battery powered equipment anytime soon, unless it's a drill or toy.