I seek your wisdom: Tree hung up in another tree

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coen9

ArboristSite Lurker
Joined
Feb 19, 2010
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Location
Ashland, VA
MMmmk so, though this is the newbie thread, I feel it prudent of me to state that my knowledge of tree work can be pretty well summed up in two words: jack and sh*t.

That being said, my qualifications are:

A. I've used a chainsaw on multiple occasions before

B. I didn't cut my toes off

C. I possess common sense, at least most of the time


With that out of the way, here's my issue. If you want the bottom line without all the details, skip this and jump down to "So here's my question:."

On my mother's land around her house, about 2 acres worth, there's a hell of a lot of shallow-rooted pine that, for whatever reasons (i've been told it was a previous drought) have roots that grow out parallel to the ground instead of out and down. As such, anytime there's a wind storm or really anytime a squirrel jumps on one, the thing is coming down. Where she lives (in Earlysville, VA), it's been a major problem for everyone. So in her yard, there are downed pines everywhere, and there are a lot of trees that haven't come down all the way..that are hanging on others. The ones posing an immediate danger have been removed, but she's gotten estimates from licensed arborists that have quoted her $10,000 or more to completely clean up the land around her house. She can't afford that right now. I've been helping her out when I can, coming over to buck a couple of fallen trees on a weekend....and holy CRAP is that hard work...especially with just two people (me and my brother), one chainsaw, and no power equipment of any kind. The woods are so dense with healthy trees and/or fallen trees that we basically have to move each 80 to 100 lb. log section by hand 50 ft. out to where we were stacking them and the branches and brush even further out. Though it's really tough, we are making some progress and have started to line the property line with some of the logs (nobody wants pine and that's the best thing I could think of to do with it).

The real problem is those damn trees that haven't fallen all the way yet...the ones that are hung up in other trees. Since there's only two of us doing the work and sporadically at that, it's going to double the work load if I have to cut down every healthy tree that the fallen tree is hung up on. And that, in and of itself seems dangerous as hell. There's at least 24 of the things left.

So here's my question:

Is there a way I can get some of those hung-up trees down without cutting down the other trees that they're hanging on? I have no power equipment besides my chainsaw (stihl MS 441), though I guess I could rent some if absolutely necessary, but I don't mind hard work without it. My first thought was a really heavy duty comealong tied to another tree to try and pull the tree back and/or down. Is this done?

Now yes, I know you're going to tell me that I should have a professional do it, but the money's just not there right now, and I've already got a sizable amount down. It's just hose hanging trees.

Thanks for reading, and I've got a new-found respect for tree work.
 
I have cut down lots of them but my ways ain't allowed, Fencepost baby!
You got 'er right with the come-a-long idea, never done it myself, too slow, but its what They recomend.
 
I have cut down lots of them but my ways ain't allowed, Fencepost baby!
You got 'er right with the come-a-long idea, never done it myself, too slow, but its what They recomend.

thanks for the reply.

quick question though, ...."Fencepost?"

I smell a secret trick.
 
I have cut down lots of them but my ways ain't allowed, Fencepost baby!
You got 'er right with the come-a-long idea, never done it myself, too slow, but its what They recomend.

I am guilty of the dreaded "Fencepost method" as well - as a last resort.

Coen9, If you learn the definition... don't do it! The chances of a newbee-intermediate doing it without getting maimed or killed are great. You need to know the physics involved, the characteristics of the wood, feel for your saw and fleet feet... some luck is good too. Even with decades of experience the penalty for a small mistake is huge.

Are you guys cleaning up for the sake of aesthetics or do kids play in there and safety is the motivation? How big are they?

If it must be done an application of horsepower would be in order. Your time and health have value and should weigh heavily against the price of a weekend rental.

A 4x4 truck or bobcat, 150-200' of steel cable, choke chains and some snatch blocks could get plenty done. (Careful with the cable, keep people away and certainly out of the bight.)

Take care in the danger zone. Wear a hardhat. Constantly look up for snagged and damaged limbs. Safe first OK?
 
if you decide to do it yourself, keep in mind that each tree/situation is different. take in the big picture first. are there any overhead limbs that may get dislodged and fall? where is the tension and pressure in the tree/trees? are the branches in the tipped tree tangled in a way that it will come free or is it entangled and gravity won't bring it down even if cut free of the stump and pulled? and remember when you cut it free from the stump, the root system may roll or even move back to it's original position with force. careful of the ones that have the supporting tree bent and loaded like an archer's bow, as it may be applying force directly down the length of the hung up tree. cut carefully as the lodged tree may roll or be shoved directly back toward the stump. also the chances of getting all the trees down and cut up without pinching your saw are pretty slim. you should have a second saw. remember,when trying to remove a stuck saw you need to be careful not to let it get pulled or fall and get squashed. a lot of times once you cut them free of the stump they will roll and fall themselves. if not, you can try to pull the log free of the tree it's hung in. plan B involves other techniques that are too dangerous and situation specific to talk a guy thru. remember to keep the ground clear where you're cutting! you may need to get clear quickly when something surprises you! hopefully all or most of the trees will come down by cutting them free of the stump. if not, then with some persuasion by pulling them out. beware of lodged limbs! a dented skull can lead to drain bamage, err brain damage.
 
Trees are dangerous.

Be careful of the advice: Go try this and if it doesn't work, don't come back and tell us.
 
Those kind of trees are probly the most dangerous .Do you have a friend that has some experience that can help you? If you try this make sure you have proper ppe and a spare saw. NEVER CUT ALONE!!!
 
I'll be in VA in a week or so, and for a modest flat rate I'll come out for a day and knock em all down, and show you the secret trick.:cheers:

Coen this is the best offer you will get IMO. What you describe is an accident waiting to happen. Even if Slayer only bones half the job for you and leaves the easy stuff you are way in front. No substitute for learning hands on from a seasoned pro.
 
Those kind of trees are probly the most dangerous .Do you have a friend that has some experience that can help you? If you try this make sure you have proper ppe and a spare saw. NEVER CUT ALONE!!!

I doubt you were trying to be funny, but in a way it is. First, how true. Leaners are VERY dangerous. The comment about a spare saw is also very true, and spare money when the saw gets bit and then the tree jumps on it and crushes it. Better the saw than your head!

Good post.
 
Coen this is the best offer you will get IMO. What you describe is an accident waiting to happen. Even if Slayer only bones half the job for you and leaves the easy stuff you are way in front. No substitute for learning hands on from a seasoned pro.

He's less than an hour from my parents house, and I would lay all of em down for a couple hundred $. the lesson itself is worth $$ thousands................:D
 
A couple of folks already aluded to this, but then gave you other ideas, let me just highlight:

WHY do they need to come down? If you can't come up with a reason that is more valuable than your leg, arm, or head then leave them hang.
 
Thanks everyone for all the great info.

In regards to the feedback and some of the questions:

The main reason that they "need" to come down is purely cosmetic. The house is set back from the street by two-hundred square feet or so of pine forest...and right now it just looks like...like ass..just terrible. And it's a neighborhood with large, wooded front lots, so there's an H.O.A. that "frowns upon" leaving the front areas like that. The back area behind the house looks even worse. The neighbors' yards are nice and clean, so my mother was sure to point that out when she called me to ask for help.

But yea, the entire house is surrounded, canopied really, by pine trees, which is nice in some ways, but in most ways it just sucks.

1. They fall all the damn time (2 on the house so far that insurance has covered).

2. The needles fall all over the roof and routinely clog up the gutters

3. The sap or whatever from the needles gets all over the asphalt driveway and you end up tracking it in through the carpet if you don't take your shoes off.

4. Did I mentioned the needles all over the driveway all the damn time? And if you park your car outside the needles fall all over the car and get that sticky crap all over your paint, which if you don't get it off right away, screws up the paint.

5. You can't use it for firewood and nobody else wants it either.

6. Unless you constantly keep the yard raked and clean, the needles will kill all the grass.

..but hey, it smells nice! Sorry, I'm a little bitter. Older parents and a nice son = son routinely driving 2 hours to do all outdoor upkeep work at the house.

I was initially considering the "cutting two opposing pie-hinges and using a rope method" that was outlined in the second link (picture C in the document) that newsawtooth posted (thanks very much by the way), but uh, what happens if I over-cut the hinges and the bastard drops down while I'm still there? I could probably do it, but like you all said, it's just not worth the risk unless you really know what you're doing.

And Treeslayer, I sure appreciate the offer but I'm not going to be able to take you up on up it for time and money reasons, at least not anytime soon.

What I think I'm gonna do is just finish limbing and bucking all of the downed trees slowly over time and just leave the leaners where they are for now. Then maybe later this year when I'm not broke and if they're still there, then, Treeslayer, maybe I could contact you through the forum if you're still interested?

Thanks again everyone. Ya'll (we say that here in the Old Dominion) are a stand-up bunch.
 
Ok. I'll bite on that hook.

What is this secret fencepost method of pulling a hung tree? I really doubt if there are any tricks I don't know, but why any of them would be called "fencepost" is beyond me.

Besides, this IS arborist 101. Who here is entitled to bring up a top secret method of doing something and then not explain it? Even if it is something crazy like using starting fluid and a lighter to seat the bead on a tractor tire, it at least deserves an explanation.
 
Ok. I'll bite on that hook.

What is this secret fencepost method of pulling a hung tree? I really doubt if there are any tricks I don't know, but why any of them would be called "fencepost" is beyond me.

Besides, this IS arborist 101. Who here is entitled to bring up a top secret method of doing something and then not explain it? Even if it is something crazy like using starting fluid and a lighter to seat the bead on a tractor tire, it at least deserves an explanation.

I wouldn't do it even if I found out...seems totally out of my league. But it does have mystique now, you know? Plus they made it sound about as dangerous and sensible as pissing on a sleeping grizzly.
 
I had one hang on me recently and I was able to use a high lift jack to "kick" out the trunk that had "pile drived" into the ground. It took quite a bit to move it out safely, maybe 30 feet or so till it dropped free. My assessment was that cutting while it was hung was beyond my skill level. Discretion was the better part of valor in this case........

Now that I have a rope puller, I would have tried that as well, maybe in concert with the high lift jack....
 
The only real danger (apart from tree felling in general) is that you are standing next to a tree that drops straight down when cut, rather than slowly toppling. They are generally thought to be unpredictable, and there is always the risk of the supporting trees letting go at the wrong time.

I don't think hung trees are that tough. The toughest are the ones that won't come down even after you have cut all the bottom off. There they are, hanging from the other tree, and you now need to add some extra force to gravity.

Try the two cut method in the first article posted. With a little creativity, you will see that you can make the cuts so that they act like an over-center cam, closing the gap on the bar. Pulling them open with a rope releases the load, and it flies apart.

Start small, work your way up to bigger ones.
 
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