lets talk rigging line for natural crotching

[voxac30dude]

i need recommendations on a good all around natural crotch rigging/lowering line that will last me awhile. what are some good ones under $150. 1,000 pounds max working load. most of the stuff we drop here in hawaii is small. 4 - 6 inches diameter max

 

[PineFever]

What Dia Rope can you use, what rope size capacity are your blocks
and pulleys? If your not gonna use a block or a pulley and just use the crotch to lower all your cuts then Sampson Pro-master would do the trick in the 3/4" dia.
I think I paid 109.00 for a 150" hank at Wesspur. It has worn well for many removals.

 

[The Lawn Shark]

True Blue

 

[pdqdl]

I have always had the best wear out of Samson Stable Braid. It is a bit heavier than most ropes the same size, however. It is incredibly strong and takes a lot of heat and friction to burn the rope. After burning the surface a whole bunch, it still seems to perform well.

We do most of our rigging "natural crotch", so burning a rope every now and then is almost expected.

 

[tree md]

:agree2:

Stable Braid is what I have been using for years for my heavy rigging. It wears well and lasts a long time and I do a lot of natural crotch rigging. I get 3/4 for the heavy stuff because I do a lot of heavy rigging. For smaller stuff I just use retired Safety Blue climbing line. I used to use True Blue as well when I climbed on it. You can lower some pretty good pieces with the retired climbing line. I would say anything up to 700 pounds would be well within reason and keep you below the 10:1 safety margin. Anything over a thousand pounds and I'm going to my 3/4 Stable Braid... I won't even tell you what kind of weight I have hung with that thing... :greenchainsaw:

 

[alanarbor]

If you're going to natural crotch everything, go with 3 strand. It's the most inexpensive rigging line you can get.

1/2" will give you 700lbs WLL (7000 tensile)

If you really need more you can go up to 5/8" or 3/4"

 

[treemandan]

1,000 lbs is clearly block and friction device territory, IMO.

The three strand ropes are what you want for natural crotch rigging. Keep it light for long rope life and switch to blocks for the heavy stuff. Be sure your ground crew knows how to work both because the change in load to the ground crew is significant and could catch them by surprise.

I kinda thought the lumpyness of the 3 strand beat up the natural crotches more than a braided 16 strand. The 3 strand is good and cheap enough though. If you ever tried to hang a pulley in a tree with 3 strand you will know its not fun, it spins the pulley.
I have been using True Blue 12 strand for NC work and also kinda thought that stable braid would not fair well with NC work though I have used it once or twice for that.

 

[pdqdl]

I gotta disagree with that opinion about 3-strand.

Twist rope does just that: it twists in use as the load goes over any kind of hard structure like a tree branch. Then when the load goes off the rope, it often hockles into a twisted up mess. TMD got it right: it will also twist a pulley up quick!

Short log sections tend to spin as they come down, then the rope can hockle up when the load is off.

The 3-strand rope is MUCH rougher as it passes over a branch. This increases the amount of damage done to a tree that is only being trimmed. The extra roughness does work as an advantage for lowering heavy limbs, especially if you are not using any load management tools like a port-a-wrap.

Knots tend to be rather permanent once loaded, much more than braided rope. So your job will not get done as soon, 'cause the groundies are always trying to untie the branch you just lowered.

If you are just looking for the cheapest, strongest rope for rigging, it's hard to beat arborplex. It's lifetime is not as long as stable braid, it isn't as strong, it doesn't handle as easily, and it seems to burn easier. So you are sacrificing some quality for a cheaper rope.

Also: it can't be spliced. 3-strand is super easy to splice, if you like working with spliced eyes.

 

[tree md]

I am not a big fan of 3 strand either. As has been mentioned, it will twist and spin on you when you are lowering pieces. Plus, I just don't like how it ties and holds knots.

To tell the truth, there are very few times when I lower something big enough to use a block on a prune job. I just usually don't take big limbs off when pruning unless it's storm damage or something like that. Most of my prune jobs are light pruning and deadwood where I am lowering small pieces. I use a small sling false crotch for that on anything that is big enough that it might burn and damage the bark. Very rarely do I have to lower anything anywhere near 1000 pounds on a prune job.

On removals I don't care if I damage the bark. I am more concerned about burning my rope. That is a friction management issue. I don't care if you are hanging a whole tree, as long as you manage the friction and lower it slowly you can lower 20K pounds and not burn your rope. When I am lowering really big pieces I prefer to natural crotch. I am old school and just have more faith in a natural crotch. I love to find a good crotch for a rigging point in a central leader on a tree, tip tie large leaders and lower them to the ground as the crew cuts it up as it comes down. That is just my style.

 

[voxac30dude]

i thought about arborplex 5/8's but i came across black max ropes from baileys for the same price and a bit higher breaking strength. i have a 2nd question. whats a safe all around length for a rigging line? 150 feet? something in my head says i should go for a 200 but less weight the better

 

[tree md]

150' is plenty for me in my area. A 75' tree is a tall one for this area. I have run into trees that were too high for the 150' rope back when I worked in another part of the country but it was rare. 200' of rope is nice to have though. You can use both ends of the line to lower when you need to with room to spare. Plus you can get a lot of leverage with 200' of rope when you are trying to pull over a heavy leaner. The further out you can get with a rope the more leverage you are going to have.

If you don't do any really heavy rigging I think a 5/8 would be fine for you. You can take some pretty big pieces with 5/8 and it is a lot lighter than 3/4. I like the 3/4 because it allows me to cover all of my bases. I can rig just about as heavy as I want to (or as heavy as I dare) and I just use the Safety Blue for light duty.

 

[voxac30dude]

allright i think as soon as i get my pay check from this next job im gonna go buy a 150 foot 5/8's hank of either yale xtc or arbor plex.

 

[jefflovstrom]

Natural crotch with or without a cambium saver? Just asking.
Jeff

 

[treevet]

to have your only lowering line 5/8" is a mistake IMO. Too damn heavy, bulky and stiff for small stuff. If you are just getting started skrimp elsewhere and add a half inch double braid of 150 to 200 feet. Even a micro line such as blackwidow is a good day to day with a mini porty.

Treeco and his 3 strand is cave man stuff but I doubt he does hardly any tree work any more.

 

[tree md]

None here Jeffie... I still do it the same as I did back in 92.

I'm sure a cambium saver would do wonders for my rope but I just never caught on to using one. I'm over 2 years with my 3/4 rigging line and though I have trimmed the ends, she's still holding up just fine.

Like I said, I normally use a light false crotch on prunes.

 

[treevet]

cambium saver for lowering?

 

[tree md]

Here's a pic with a piece I lowered with the 3/4 Stable Braid. Not huge I know but a decent sized piece. I tip tied and lowered these with a block because I needed to let them run a little due to the tree being compromised at the base. I didn't want to take any chances with hangups or snags. I lowered one last week twice the size of the piece in this pic by natural crotch:

 

[treevet]

Here's a pic with a piece I lowered with the 3/4 Stable Braid. Not huge I know but a decent sized piece. I tip tied and lowered these with a block because I needed to let them run a little due to the tree being compromised at the base. I didn't want to take any chances with hangups or snags. I lowered one last week twice the size of the piece in this pic by natural crotch:

that's a splinter bro

 

[tree md]

that's a splinter bro

LOL!

I have very few pics. Whenever I am doing something harry it is always all hands on deck. Invariably one of my guys will say "we aught to get a pic of this one"... Only problem is everyone has a rope in their hand.

I got another bigun coming up where I am going to be lowering big pieces. I'll try to get some pics.

 

[treevet]

LOL!

I have very few pics. Whenever I am doing something harry it is always all hands on deck. Invariably one of my guys will say "we aught to get a pic of this one"... Only problem is everyone has a rope in their hand.

I got another bigun coming up where I am going to be lowering big pieces. I'll try to get some pics.

just bustin on ya bud.....I often think taking a pict of a hairy rig might be bad luck too. Plus we almost always only got 4 hands on a job as well.