Log splitter pump mounting question

[sdnomad]

Is it ok to mount hydraulic pump above reservoir tank? Has anyone out there built a splitter with the pump above the tank? I see a lot of retail log splitters with the motor and pump mounted above the tank. But I know they recommend the pump be at the same level or lower than tank. Would I need to have a closed system (no breather cap) in order to have the pump above the tank? And would you have to prime the pump some how?

Thanks everyone for your advice.
Doug

Here are photos showing where I would like to mount the motor and pump. The tank is the green thing the motor is sitting on.

 

[barkies]

mine is above the tank by 3-4 inches and has worked fine for 5 years but ive always heard at or below oil level is best

 

[mga]

mounting it below is kinda recommended to ensure that oil will always be in the pump. you never want to run a dry pump, but, as barkies stated, he's never had a problem. having the pump above the oil means it has to work over time to draw oil into it, especially when starting.

looks like a nice project you have there...keep posting pics!

 

[sdnomad]

Will do. I'll take pics as I go along and post them when its done.

I might end up mounting the motor and pump behind the tank, like in the pics below, so it can be below the oil level line. But if I do that, I can't reach the shut off switch where I would be standing and operating the splitter. Probably not a big deal. I'll just have to walk around the back of the splitter to shut it off. I have to mount the motor on the right side though, so the exhaust is not pointed toward the operator.

mounting it below is kinda recommended to ensure that oil will always be in the pump. you never want to run a dry pump, but, as barkies stated, he's never had a problem. having the pump above the oil means it has to work over time to draw oil into it, especially when starting.

looks like a nice project you have there...keep posting pics!

 

[boostnut]

aside from getting the pump below the oil level, you have also positioned the pump/engine combo completely out of harms way by putting it behind the tank.

 

[sdnomad]

I think you're right. Less chance of hitting it with the wood. I guess if I wanted, I could wire a cut off switch next to the operating area also, if it seems to be a problem.

I was also told it is best to mount the pump directly to the engine, instead of a stand alone pump mounting bracket that doesn't attach to the motor. Suppose to cause wear on bearings and seals of pump and motor. I have the stand alone pump bracket, but looks like I better get a pump to motor mounting bracket.

aside from getting the pump below the oil level, you have also positioned the pump/engine combo completely out of harms way by putting it behind the tank.

 

[gtstang462002]

I think you're right. Less chance of hitting it with the wood. I guess if I wanted, I could wire a cut off switch next to the operating area also, if it seems to be a problem.

I was also told it is best to mount the pump directly to the engine, instead of a stand alone pump mounting bracket that doesn't attach to the motor. Suppose to cause wear on bearings and seals of pump and motor. I have the stand alone pump bracket, but looks like I better get a pump to motor mounting bracket.

I picked up the bracket, lovejoy equivelant couplers and spider for about 50 bucks from my local tractor supply. Made everything plug and play with no alignment issues.

Bobby

 

[mga]

Will do. I'll take pics as I go along and post them when its done.

I might end up mounting the motor and pump behind the tank, like in the pics below, so it can be below the oil level line. But if I do that, I can't reach the shut off switch where I would be standing and operating the splitter. Probably not a big deal. I'll just have to walk around the back of the splitter to shut it off. I have to mount the motor on the right side though, so the exhaust is not pointed toward the operator.

much better!! not only will your pump appreciate it, it looks more compact now.

if you're really concerned about a "kill" switch, you can easily wire one up near where you're standing while splitting. one wire to ground it is all it needs.

leaf springs will make it so much easier to tow........just a thought. it won't bounce around at high speeds.

 

[computeruser]

I'd put it behind the tank, as pictured, BUT I would also make sure that it allows you to mount up the Tecumseh OEM quiet muffler, too. Those little crimped steel contraptions that are on there are noisy as can be. The quiet muffler that fits that series of engines is only $60 or so, and well worth putting on such a nice looking project as that. You, your neighbors, and your splitting helpers will thank you!!

 

[triptester]

The motor and pump located behind the seems to be the preferred position.

Be careful to pre plan for your hose routing.

 

[sdnomad]

I'm finding out that you DO have to think through which way the hoses will need to run. With the motor's drive shaft facing left of the beam and the control valve inlet on the right side of the beam, I will have to snake the line from the pump to the control valve around the underneath of the beam and up the right side.

I'm also wondering, can you cast iron fittings such as 90 degree elbows and iron pipe, in place of brass fittings? What are all the options for fittings and lines?

Be careful to pre plan for your hose routing.

 

[gtstang462002]

I'm finding out that you DO have to think through which way the hoses will need to run. With the motor's drive shaft facing left of the beam and the control valve inlet on the right side of the beam, I will have to snake the line from the pump to the control valve around the underneath of the beam and up the right side.

I'm also wondering, can you cast iron fittings such as 90 degree elbows and iron pipe, in place of brass fittings? What are all the options for fittings and lines?

Northern tool has just about every fitting that you would need in their hydraulics section. If nothing else take thier part numbers to your local supplier to cross referance. Iron pipe is advised against due to its inability to withstand vibrations. It will last for a while then start to crack by the fittings... Tried that once before.

 

[triptester]

All fittings that will be under pressure have to be hydraulic fittings. Only return lines and suction lines can use standard pipe fittings. Be careful when choosing the hydraulic fittings . I have found some that for 1/2" I.D. hose that only had a 5/16" orifice in them. These fittings cause heat build up and restrict flow.

 

[cabinman]

Flow

FLOW is everybody,...Air, water, or oil,..make sure it FLOWS without restrictions,..spend a few extra bucks 2 improve the flow,. FILTERS hurt flow,..But, I think the suction side should have 1,..Unless,.. we are building a race pump,..And, also, a return filter,.. E,J,

 

[cabinman]

thinkin, filters

FLOW is everybody,...Air, water, or oil,..make sure it FLOWS without restrictions,..spend a few extra bucks 2 improve the flow,. FILTERS hurt flow,..But, I think the suction side should have 1,..Unless,.. we are building a race pump,..And, also, a return filter,.. E,J,

Hydraulic, suction filters arent popular,most machines only use a return filter,. This is the Question,..WHY, Filter anyway,?..For me its to protect ,..the pump, valves, and the cylinder, or motor,..SO,...If u DONT filter the oil before it goes threw the pump, valve, cyl, or motor,..All the (####) you suck out of the tank goes threw the whole system, AND does what ever dammage it sees fit,..Like a tornado in a trailer park,. Maybe, Iam wrong, But the popular, engineers keep me guessing,.

 

[triptester]

If you look at car engines the pump is located in the oil pan .The oil pickup only has a screen before the pump. The oil is filtered after it goes thru the pump and before it returns to the oil pan.

A filter on the suction side of the pump can restrict flow to the pump putting extra strain on the pump. Some hydraulic experts don't even recommend having a strainer in the suction line. Their theory is that if you start with a clean tank and oil the filter will keep it clean.

 

[mga]

If you look at car engines the pump is located in the oil pan .The oil pickup only has a screen before the pump. The oil is filtered after it goes thru the pump and before it returns to the oil pan.

A filter on the suction side of the pump can restrict flow to the pump putting extra strain on the pump. Some hydraulic experts don't even recommend having a strainer in the suction line. Their theory is that if you start with a clean tank and oil the filter will keep it clean.

heh...amen!

if you put a filter on the suction side, you're going to be sorry...not to mention probably soaked with hydraulic fluid. the screen is optional on the suction line, but if you do use one, you have to consider getting at it at some time in case it gets clogged. i never used one myself.

general rule: always filter the return line.

also, when designing your tank, the inlet line should drop to about 1" to the bottom of the tank. you should have a baffle in the tank as well.....AND your suction line should be at least 1" off the bottom of the tank so that it doesn't draw any particles that might be in there.

the baffle prevents turbulence inside the tank and having the return line drop to the bottom prevents bubbles.

 

[drmiller100]

the only thing harder on a pump then metal filings is cavitation.

cavitation is caused by restriction in the suction line or having the pump too high from the bottom of the tank.

filter on the suction line is a very bad thing. mgiht work just fine in the summer until one day you get a leak and the tank level drops a little or you run it in the winter nad the oil thickens.

 

[mga]

the only thing harder on a pump then metal filings is cavitation.

cavitation is caused by restriction in the suction line or having the pump too high from the bottom of the tank.

filter on the suction line is a very bad thing. mgiht work just fine in the summer until one day you get a leak and the tank level drops a little or you run it in the winter nad the oil thickens.

actually, filters won't work on the suction side anyways. the filters you buy for splitters have a relief valve in them...in case they get clogged...to by-pass the filter. on the suction side, the amount of suction would always keep that valve open....rendering the filter completely useless.

once again....people shouldn't even consider a filter on the suction side...ever.

 

[paladin]

The pump is mounted 4-6 inches above the oil level in the tank and has worked that way for 3yrs. I guess we will see if it cooks the pump after awhile. My filter is mounted on the return side also.