M-tronic/Autotune bologna??

[VikingDrive]

When these saws first came out, i liked the idea of them. Several people said that they were very pleased with them so i thought i might keep my eye out for a good deal on one used(didnt figure i would actually find one though). A couple of months ago i noticed a 441MT sittingat my local dealer on there repair bench tore apart so i asked about it. Turns out that a large tree company brought it in for repairs and stihl had apparently sold the saw directly to the tree company which stihl says they will not do, they sale through dealers only. Not in this case. The mechanic has to call stihl to find out how to diagnose the mtronic since this dealer hasnt sold any. The stihl techs gave them the run-around about it and finally said that the dealer had to buy a fancy $600 diagnostic device to trouble shoot the saw. The dealer said fine, send it to me! Stihl tech says well, we cant, theres not one in the US, it will have to come from germany. Roughly a month later, the diagnostic tool shows up and doesnt work. So the dealer calls stihl and they tell them that they will send another one, but guess what, it will have to come from germany also. It still hasnt showed up.

After hearing this and realizing that i had no way to work on or trouble shoot this saw myself, i changed my mind about them. I'm sure in the future they will get better but i probably wont own one till i can diagnose it myself!

My dealer sends his guys to get that training. If he was holdin' me up for a month, he put an MS460 in my hands, and eat the depreciation. When I hear in different places that guys can't get full chisel chain or technical input from a dealer, I'm glad the good old boy network can overshadow technicalities.

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

I understand the nervousness at first...like everyone said, the cost of parts...well, electronic parts cost far less than mechanical parts, plaina nd simple...the reason we don't see it like that is supply and demand of the mechanical vs electronic parts. Once the electronic phase hits full strength, cost of parts will come down. True that the saw will run the best it can due to conditions with the stock electronic module, but as time goes on, Superchips and hyper-tec and the like will get into the saw and other OPE world, or new companies will devolop for this reason and we will be able to switch at the flip of a button our saws from best work saw running, or cookie cutting, or fuel consumption, etc...just like my superchips on my truck, it has economy, towing, and performance mode to start...also can tell it what grade of fuel you use and it'll tweak itself to run just that much better for that particular fuel.

On a side note, look at all those ricer cars from years ago...guys had those little 4 bangers blowing doors of off supposedly high performance V8's...no matter how good the carb was tuned, etc. Now that the old school V8 guys jumped on board with the electronics, the ricers can't dream of touching a similarly modded and controlled V8.

I feel the saw world will be the same, once everything is going full tilt and everyone is able to select options in a software menu, you carb guys prolly won't stand a chance, because there will be the instant retuning when a cloud goes over, or soon enough you will have input and able to tell the computer to run this saw just like this, regardless of change of atmostpheric pressure, etc. VS spending a few minutes retuning the saw to the best of your ability for the perfect condition you need it for at that time. Electronics is the way of the world anymore, like it or not...I mean heII, I have to select a computer option to allow my newly installed fog lights to work because they are controlled through the computer. And supposedly some brand spanking new cars you can't pull out the radio without causing a no start condition. I can see 2 really good reasons for EVERYTHING being computer controlled...but that is a different conversation.

 

[Bluefish]

After 4 tanks I got to see my 562 hooked up to the computer at my dealer. There were fuel numbers that surprised him until I told him I ran nothing but tru fuel since it was purchased. They ran it and let me try it the day I purchased it then I took it home and dumped their mix out and ran a tank of tru fuel through it.
I buy a bottle every time I go out by the mall and have a nice little stash built up. Just makes me feel better to run it. Russ

 

[CR500]

When these saws first came out, i liked the idea of them. Several people said that they were very pleased with them so i thought i might keep my eye out for a good deal on one used(didnt figure i would actually find one though). A couple of months ago i noticed a 441MT sittingat my local dealer on there repair bench tore apart so i asked about it. Turns out that a large tree company brought it in for repairs and stihl had apparently sold the saw directly to the tree company which stihl says they will not do, they sale through dealers only. Not in this case. The mechanic has to call stihl to find out how to diagnose the mtronic since this dealer hasnt sold any. The stihl techs gave them the run-around about it and finally said that the dealer had to buy a fancy $600 diagnostic device to trouble shoot the saw. The dealer said fine, send it to me! Stihl tech says well, we cant, theres not one in the US, it will have to come from germany. Roughly a month later, the diagnostic tool shows up and doesnt work. So the dealer calls stihl and they tell them that they will send another one, but guess what, it will have to come from germany also. It still hasnt showed up.

After hearing this and realizing that i had no way to work on or trouble shoot this saw myself, i changed my mind about them. I'm sure in the future they will get better but i probably wont own one till i can diagnose it myself!

You have to take into consideration that Stihl does not maybe realize how popular these saws are over in the US, I think the saw may have been released just over a year ago it may take some more time for diagnostic tools to be sufficiently distributed to the dealers.

With that being said it will be only a matter of time where we can look at the parameters inside the saw, just like a scan tool for a truck. This whole debate is like asking what's better? The Cummins 5.9 12 valve or the Cummins 5.9 24 valve?? Not a Cummins guy so I say Duramax or Powerstroke, but my honest opinion for the Cummins is 24 valve.

 

[VikingDrive]

The one I had only did that when it first came out of the box. Once it had a couple tanks of fuel through it, that was gone. Power wise, it would absolutely anihilate a MS440. Power was right on par with the 576AT. I despise their constuction, but they are the strongest stock 70cc saw I've ever run.

This guy is on.

I personally have run both the 441 Mtronic and the 576 Autotune and I wouldn't trade my 372 for one of each and $500.00 to boot!!!


Mike

Whoa!!! I'd take that trade.

 

[mdavlee]

The 12 valve and 24 valves are a lot like the carb and autotune stuff. The vp pumped 24 valves can't deliver the fuel like a 12 valve a p7100. The new common rail 5.9 and 6.7 are catching up to the 12 valves in all out performance. A 800 hp 12 valve isn't fun to drive on the street for constantly smoking out everything behind you. A common rail with efi live can be tuned a lot cleaner with similar power.

The autotune stuff will evolve and maybe fuel injection will bring it to a whole new level in the next few years. Personally I like autotune. I wish the 372 would get it. I cut at elevations from 1100 to 3500 and they need re tuned for each one and temperature. The autotune eliminates that and runs flawless at each elevation.

 

[Raganr]

For me, I am not compelled to buy an AT saw while non-AT options exist. At some point, there will not be an option and the decision will be a little easier to make.

 

[spacemule]

The last generation of older technology is almost always more practical than the first generation of new technology. That's not a mark against autotune stuff, just a recognition that it is new technology, and long overdue I might add. I only wish manufactures had been working with this sort of stuff instead of dinking around with limiter screws (which fix nothing but do cause things to break) 15 years ago. However, until the bugs are worked out and the systems are refined and the infrastructure is in place to support the new saws, sticking with the old ones makes a lot of sense. Wait 3 or 4 years, the prices will come down, the technology will be refined, dealers will be familiar and equipped to work on them, and they will be a better deal than the old saws. Like that with pretty much everything. Let the other guys be guinea pigs, but you reap the benefits. :msp_wink:

 

[Bluefish]

As far as price goes, 645$ for a 562xp with bar and 2 chains seemed like a pretty good deal compared to the 357xp. Don't know what a 362 goes for and frankly don't care. Mastermind does a nice job on these saws and the auto tune seems to compensate for the mods without too much trouble. Like it or not gentlemen, we are seeing the future of saws roll out before our very eyes. Russ

 

[Currently]

I have the 441cm auto tune and would not hesitate the least in buying ten more. The saw is reliable, starts easier, more power and just plain CUTS!

No ####ing around fiddling with fuel settings. It just runs and takes everything I throw at it.

I grew up in the points-condenser-distributor cap timing days. Yup, could pull to the side of the road and fix them. However, in the last twenty plus years of using EFI, the only time I got stranded was due to running out of fuel ... My own stupidity. (Oh, forgot the dead battery cause I left the lights on or some stupid move like that.)

I also do automation for a living, PLC's, VFD's and SCADA/HMI's. They are extremely reliable if protected against dirty power and heat. Over ninety percent of problems occur when some idiot wants to "tweak" the process "to make it better" or adds something new to the existing system not understanding the constraints of the original system.

What is hilarious is the number of people that never owned an auto tune banding together and trashing something they never used or fully understand. Every fault mentioned is an assumption ... No hard facts, no real experience, just baloney. How many here have PERSONALLY experienced Mtronic failure?

Nothing wrong in admitting liking old stuff cause you understand it and can work with its limitations without thinking twice about it.

My cousins brother in law twice removed having one that blew up is something I expect to hear in a bar where testosterone and telling the most believable lie makes you a very important person in your eyes.

Bottom line, TIME = MONEY

If and when my auto tune module fails, I will search the internets and buy one for pennies on the dollar just like most of you are doing with your 044's and other legacy equipment. I now find Stihl chain at a buck an inch and purchase a couple hundred bucks at a time at that price.

Money talks, bull poop walks.

/back to your regularly scheduled bishing. :msp_rolleyes:

 

[Officer's Match]

Whoa!!! I'd take that trade.

Not if you had ran Mike's 372, it's nutz.

 

[komatsuvarna]

Done some digging. The Diagnostic tool kit for the autotune Huskys is PN 576 69 23 01. I can't find any where other than the IPLs that recognize the PN though :msp_sad:.

 

[SierraWoodsman]

Convenience...

The autotune stuff will evolve and maybe fuel injection will bring it to a whole new level in the next few years. Personally I like autotune. I wish the 372 would get it. I cut at elevations from 1100 to 3500 and they need re tuned for each one and temperature. The autotune eliminates that and runs flawless at each elevation.

I would agree wholeheartedly with this statement. The elevations I cut at often very substantially from 4000-8500 Ft. I experienced this first hand this week when cutting firewood @ 8000 ft (my saws were all tuned @ 4500). Of the 5 the saw's I took with me all were a disappointment except the 562. It's so nice to have a saw perfectly tuned no mater what the conditions/elevations.
While it's true that it only takes a quick minute to “re-tune” for the conditions, It's a big convenience not to "Have too".
If Husky came out with bolt on AT conversion kits for the XP saws I think I'd bite on one especially for the 372.
In fact I bet these kits would sell pretty well if competitively priced on the convenience factor alone.

 

[Bluefish]

I am pretty sure TK said "dealers only" on the diagnostic set up. Russ

 

[TK]

Ohhhhhh wiggz you pot stirrer you love AT and you know it! uttahere2:

 

[wigglesworth]

What is hilarious is the number of people that never owned an auto tune banding together and trashing something they never used or fully understand. Every fault mentioned is an assumption ... No hard facts, no real experience, just baloney. How many here have PERSONALLY experienced Mtronic ?.

I'm glad ur all happy with ur saw. I really am. Congrats.

How many other 70cc saws have you "personally" owned and ran? Didn't you just buy that?


So you have 3 months of hard fact, non-bologna-ish, real M-Tronic experience, no?

What I find hilarious that the 7 M-tronic users in the US band together to promote their fancy limited carbs.

 

[hamish]

Toubleshooting principals apply all the same be it an AutoTune or a regular model. The newer Husqvarnas evern spit out error codes to make things easier, not so on the 576xpat or 570at. Its all the regualr basis component troubleshooting, and the cost of parts is on par with the non at versions. The AT system just came out at the wrong time, for most folks it took enough time to understand the strato and to be able to effeciently work on them, let alone wrapping ones head around AT.

If you can rebuild a carb and have the competancy to do a proper vac/press test the AT saws will pose no problem to you, and it is remarkable what they are capable of.

 

[TK]

Toubleshooting principals apply all the same be it an AutoTune or a regular model. The newer Husqvarnas evern spit out error codes to make things easier, not so on the 576xpat or 570at. Its all the regualr basis component troubleshooting, and the cost of parts is on par with the non at versions. The AT system just came out at the wrong time, for most folks it took enough time to understand the strato and to be able to effeciently work on them, let alone wrapping ones head around AT.

If you can rebuild a carb and have the competancy to do a proper vac/press test the AT saws will pose no problem to you, and it is remarkable what they are capable of.

It's blocking off all the damn holes for the vac test that's a pain lol

 

[saxman]

I'm glad ur all happy with ur saw. I really am. Congrats.

How many other 70cc saws have you "personally" owned and ran? Didn't you just buy that?


So you have 3 months of hard fact, non-bologna-ish, real M-Tronic experience, no?

What I find hilarious that the 7 M-tronic users in the US band together to promote their fancy limited carbs.

Well let's see, I bought a new 044 in 1997, ran it and liked it. In 2005 I think, I traded it at my Stihl dealer for a new MS441, I cut a bunch of wood with it also, even did a Lakeside muffler modification on it. It was a good saw that I liked better than the old 044. I traded the 441 in last year for a MS441R CM. I love this saw and have opened up the muffler to let it breathe better and it compensated all by itself for the mod. I really like the new 441, I don't consider myself a drum beater for them but in my opinion they are a step forward for most saw users. So now you now I am one on the 7 users now just find the other 6 and you can invite us to a GTG and show us the error in our way of thinking

Steve

 

[CR500]

I'm glad ur all happy with ur saw. I really am. Congrats.

How many other 70cc saws have you "personally" owned and ran? Didn't you just buy that?


So you have 3 months of hard fact, non-bologna-ish, real M-Tronic experience, no?

What I find hilarious that the 7 M-tronic users in the US band together to promote their fancy limited carbs.

I'm not trying to say that this is the "cure all" lol, but for my needs and comparison with the 044 I already have that was bought new in 98 by my father ( I wanna say 12 MM) and actually the the4 first 10 mm 044 he bought had a crank issue and was sold to the guy I help cut wood for, that saw is now a 046 and I have not ran it because it needs new fuel lines.

Anyhow I do hear the 10mm 044s are pretty strong so I can not say anything about them so the are currently ruled out, but the 12mm 044 it have may just have pinch more power but the 441 is not broken in and after that word on town is that it will "annihilate" a 12mm 044/440. For my needs I would rather have the 441 over the 044 just my opinion we're all different lol.


I guess that makes me another user lol