making ourselves obsolete

[capetrees]

The gear may be making the job easier and safer but the one thing we all have that most don't is a lack of fear of heights and lack of fear of climbing trees with sharp tools. Most people would NEVER think of doing it even with all the best gear in the world. Thats one edge I know I will always have over most. Even some guys getting into the biz are still reluctant to get into a tree, prefering to be "safe" in a bucket truck. Can't get a bucket everywhere!

 

[underwor]

Do you folks watch the show undercover boss? Just watched it again and the one thing I noticed about all the shows was that the difference between a successful store and just average is always the customer satisfaction. If the customers are happy, they come back. Generally these are in stores where the workers are happy. And so the Boss is happy. I notice that the students that I get to know very well, hometown, family, likes, dislikes, etc., are the ones that do the best and that I hear from for years. They give me trouble, in a likeable way, they challenge me with their questions, once they are out of school, they come to me with questions and answer mine about issues in their home area.

These students are my customers. I am the boss for a couple of years. I may not get a lot of return customers, but I get satisfied ones that give good referrals.

 

[tree md]

I think that it is easier to train, some of the work is getting easier then it was 15-20 years ago, but the pansies still winnow out in the brush dragging.

One of the reasons there are so many new people starting up is that it is so much easier to get equipment these days. The used market is very reasonable, 10k for a beat up, but servicable dump/chipper combo.

I know of a "nice" one-ton and chuck-n-duck going for ~7k. Just needs a little work, sez my very honest buddy...

Dorshak's been saying they want to down-size for over a year now....

Some of us have been around here almost that long you old focker! :hmm3grin2orange:

underwor, Great posts. Yes I do watch under cover boss and love it. Thankfully, I work close enough with my guys that I am the overt boss... Great to hear from you!

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Welcome back Bobby!

Some of us have been around here almost that long you old focker!

When I first started on these boards I thought it was mostly a bunch of kids. I've been pleasantly surprised, on a number of occasions, as to how many of "us" are my contemporaries and even senior to me.

Look at Heffe the Terrible, he must be around 63 or so

 

[underwor]

63 is not old!!!!!!

Glad to be back. I have been lurking lately, just quiet for once. Hard to believe for those of you who know me, I know.

 

[outofmytree]

Ditto on the client education point. I often stop to quote a job and spend as much as an hour there talking trees. I used to get frustrated with myself for being so inefficient with my time until I noticed a direct corellation between repeat/referred work and the clients who chat the longest. Now I let the quote be more like a visit between friends and reap both the reward of good conversation and good business.

Oh and nice to hear from you Underwor. I recall your contributions in another thread on another forum some years ago which led me to my first "aha moment" regarding CODIT.

 

[S Mc]

... I notice that the students that I get to know very well, hometown, family, likes, dislikes, etc., are the ones that do the best and that I hear from for years. They give me trouble, in a likeable way, they challenge me with their questions, once they are out of school, they come to me with questions and answer mine about issues in their home area.

These students are my customers. I am the boss for a couple of years. I may not get a lot of return customers, but I get satisfied ones that give good referrals.

Bob, are my ears burning here? I am one of those "satisfied customers" that recommend and return as often as possible.

And this also correlates to how we sell ourselves to clients and potential clients. Let them know you are fully informed on their landscape, not just their trees, but everything. Be the "go to" professional who has the answers.

As times change and new products come out, we have to change and adapt with them. An unfortunate side effect, IMHO, of some of the devices that have made ascent easier is that there are some people up trees who simply shouldn't be there. Climbing and trimming trees is an art as much as a skill. Knowing how to run a chainsaw or being fearless at heights is not enough.

David relates some of the people coming into the industry to some of the people who go out and buy all the "bad boy" attire for looking like a biker...it's a facade. Anyone can go out and buy the attire to appear like a road racer...again, it doesn't make them one. But it does "flood the market" and makes manufacturers very happy.

David makes climbing look very easy and, after all, anyone can go buy a chainsaw. But at the end of the day, you want to leave the client knowing they got the best deal for the money...a job well done, performed as promised, by people with whom they enjoy conversing. Not someone who they can't wait to get off their property.

Sylvia

 

[Ed Roland]

Oh and nice to hear from you Underwor. I recall your contributions in another thread on another forum some years ago which led me to my first "aha moment" regarding CODIT.

I am very fortunate to have the opportunity to learn from Professor Bob as he attends our 2-3x weekly coffee klutch in which myself and a few others discuss advanced arb concepts. Good to see you back on the forums OP.

These students are my customers. I am the boss for a couple of years. I may not get a lot of return customers, but I get satisfied ones that give good referrals.

It's your unique slant on topics that keep them interesting. The Wulkowicz data you shared on "pre-girdling" was especially good as it seemed to help me wrap my mind around some of the thoughts being expressed in that "Hurricane" thread. Meeting you here on AS and then having Sylvia introduce you to our study group has been worth more than 10 Ropetek Wraptors!

there are gonna be a whole lot more now that joe schmoe just lost his engineering job.

Not really looking for an answer here....just stating a dilemma. Are we, from day to day, training our own competition....and is this the dangerous job that should bring premium bucks....anymore?

Let them join our industry. The work will cull the herd. It simply is not enough to pick through the information provided on the forums to become proficient enough to compete with dedicated students of the game. Without the passion to learn or the humility to continue to learn they will not be able to compete long term. The potential client that chooses a cheap hack over my services is not someone I want to work for anyway.

 

[underwor]

Thank you for all the kind words folks. You do realize that I am going to be impossible to live with for a while now.

Sylvia made a good point about being the go to person for all landscape issues. The trees, shrubs, grass and flowers are all parts of the natural system. The cultural practices needed to maintain each also affect all the others. If we do not know that proper watering of a flowerbed around a tree can also lead to rot developing in the root crown of the tree, or that fertilizing a lawn may over fertilize a tree, making it more susceptible to insect or fungal attack, then I is going to be very hard to make recommendations on anything in the future.
On top of this we add the social ecosystem of politics, ethnic traditions, neighbor interactions and more, and you have a real complicated mess. Also very challenging for those who are trying to do a good job in the business.
Who has the go to guy been in the past? Surveys show that it is the garden center! I know some of these folks are very knowledgeable, but I also have worked in one years ago and while the advice was good for the plant they had in their hand as they left, it did not get into all the intricacies of getting it to survive with its neighbors in the system at home.

Since I am semi-retired from teaching now, I am planning to devote more time to creating true arborists, those who facilitate the coexistence of people and trees. To this end I am trying to put together some training sessions that could be offered to groups of tree care providers and their clients to show each group how complicated a web we weave when first we try to create a total landscape. I also want them to realize that this is a specialized "profession" based on the concepts of plant health care. And that plant health care is not just a rolled over spray program from the 60's, but a landscape design and maintenance plan based on ecological, cultural, chemical and social principles. The end result will be an "Owner's Manual for Your Landscape" that will lead the homeowner, with the aid of the proper professionals on the path to a "perfect" landscape.
You will notice that the name of my enterprise is Underwood and Associates. I do not know it all yet. I need help, particularly on those pretty colored weeds that people plant around the trees, I think they are called flowers.
Sylvia, Dave and I are trying to plan a first go at this near Missoula this spring. If you are interested in the outcome or would like to attend, let us know. It should be fun and informative.

After my getting that long winded, I bet you wish you had kept quiet!!!

 

[treeseer]

You will notice that the name of my enterprise is Underwood and Associates.

I added Associates to my biz name some years ago for the same reason, and to point out Shigo's observation that tree guys need to know about all associated organisms.

Miss y tomorrow but way busy; who said this is the slow time of year?

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I added Associates to my biz name some years ago for the same reason, and to point out Shigo's observation that tree guys need to know about all associated organisms.

Miss y tomorrow but way busy; who said this is the slow time of year?

I've thought of putting Sanborn & Associatives on my shingle...

 

[treeseer]

I've thought of putting Sanborn & Associatives on my shingle...

AssociatIVes? Why you need the IV, dehydrated??

I kinda regret adding it cuz it's hard to fit on a check, the most important place it goes...but still it's an important message that 1. we get help when we need it and 2 so do trees.

 

[Jkebxjunke]

I don't normally venture into this topic area... But I will say I have the utmost respect for anyone who will do the jobs you guys do... I have seen some of the pics and vids on here and it is amazing... ( hope I didn't inflate anyone's egos to where their hat sized changed..lol).

A few things have been brought up in the OP that that equipment and technology has improved things... yes it has... I have grown up on a farm and continue to do so myself... and things have gotten easier in a sense.. however now there is much much more stuff you have to maintain and buy and that cost $$$$$$ ... not $$ but $$$$$$$$$. you know what I mean.. then you add all the new regs into the mix...
another thing is customer service... I used a local company years ago to remove a large old maple.... they were the only ones to return a phone call ..yes 3 companies at that time were local... and thats about all there was 2 of them would not even answer the phone let alone return a call... just leave it at the beep... and the companies are still around today. Well the one company that took the job came out was very professional.. climbed ect..
well I had 3 other trees that needed to be removed and one trimmed... told them just leave the wood in chunks and dont worry bout the stumps or even bother with the branches... well the person they sent out to do the estimate... didn't have all her equipment or even a pen... or her phone.. it was the wife or girlfriend.. and she didn't listen to a word I said.. ( didn't even have a business card) was more worried about the access for the bucket trucks and said since they are maples the stumps had to be ground... needless to say they didn't get anymore work from me... oh ant the thing that really sealed the deal of them not doing the work .. was the saying to just "top" the tree instead of trim it...
correct me if i am wrong.. but isn't "topping" a bad thing now? My parents had that done to several of the trees here years ago.. and they don't exist anymore... rotted from the top down and dropped chunks.

 

[treevet]

I added Associates to my biz name some years ago for the same reason, and to point out Shigo's observation that tree guys need to know about all associated organisms.

Yes, Alex was referring to the associates of trees in his company name not people.

 

[treevet]

Yes, Alex was referring to the associates of trees in his company name not people.

Let me qualify that....he was referring to the trees' associates (which could be, at times, people)

 

[underwor]

Had an opportunity to go to one of Alex's sessions in Portsmouth a few years back. He had a first name basis acquaintance with all the associates of trees, from man through bacteria. And he got along fine with all of them. A real loss to the industry.

 

[treevet]

I chased him all over the east and midwest for almost 20 years for seminars. It is unfortunate many never met him and have the wrong impression of him. Everyone was on a first name basis with him if they felt qualified to have one. Many perceive him as having a big ego which is foolish.

Wonder if the next messiah will appear in our lifetime. Thought Coder might be the one, but he seems a bit of the recluse.

 

[treevet]

Guess Underwood didn't agree with that post....oh well.

Back to the topic...In the most recent TCIA Mag. in the deaths and injuries section the following appeared indicating a few of the incidents of non experienced people delving into our profession...

1. Mass. Firefighters rescue a "professional" tree cutter who "was wearing some safety equipment but was "missing straps and ROPE" and at 50 feet he stopped moving to not "risk falling" and waited to be rescued.

2. 31 year old Ohio man cutting a tree at a golf course was killed when he got the tree "stuck" in another tree which shed a limb when he went under it bashing him in the head.

3. Man electrocuted/killed in NY while pruning his own tree under primaries.

4. 63 year old LANDSCAPER in Ohio was struck by a limb from the tree he was working in and killed.

 

[underwor]

Treevet

I agree about Shigo completely. Great guy. Coder I have heard a few times and really enjoyed, but as you say he does not get out a lot at least in my neck of the woods.

 

[underwor]

I don't think I would want to try palm pruning. Have you noticed how many people are killed spiking up palms and getting mashed by the fronds dropping down over them? Luckily it is not a big problem in ND.

One of those jobs that looks easy to get into, just a saddle, spurs and saw, but ends up bad very often. It would really pay to put in a false crotch with a pulley at the top, so you could lower yourself to the ground after you cut your lanyard loose. Be sure it is not a steel core lanyard. This might not even work, as I say my experience in palms ended when I did the removal in the Dean of Education's office at WIU in the '80s.