Meteor Cylinder Quality

[Chris J.]

I wish that I had 'multi-quoted' several posts, but I'm not about to go through this entire thread a second time .

Brad, I hope that I have this straight--The Meteor 460 (440?) kits with the crappy cylinders that upset you were the early ones. You haven't personally seen the more recent kits. Randy/Watsoner is going to send/have sent to you a new Meteor 460 kit (from stock, not cherrypicked) for you to inspect. Your going to post photos and your impression of the 'newer' Meteor cylinder in the kit.


Broncoluna--In your opinion, bad or mediocre AM kits are OK for saws sold on eBay & CL? Please post your eBay seller name so that I (and others) don't purchase a rebuilt chainsaw from you.

Just2Fat--Were you ever a politician, gymnast, or professional dancer? Your ability to flipflop, backpedal, & CYA is amazing.

 

[DSS]

I'm off-line for a few hours and the place goes to the dogs, lol

Actually it was a rooster...

 

[LowVolt]

I got a newb question for brad.

From all the reading it sounds like if you guys get a saw to port you dont really care what the cylinder looks like because you are going to work your magic and smooth everything out. If you ported one of these early cylinders to the exact specs that you did and oem kit, how did it not make the same amount of power as the oem kit? You guys massage these things to your standards to bring out all the ponies they got so what was the X factor that made the oem run so much better? Materials used?

Just wondering...

 

[Andyshine77]

I got a newb question for brad.

From all the reading it sounds like if you guys get a saw to port you dont really care what the cylinder looks like because you are going to work your magic and smooth everything out. If you ported one of these early cylinders to the exact specs that you did and oem kit, how did it not make the same amount of power as the oem kit? You guys massage these things to your standards to bring out all the ponies they got so what was the X factor that made the oem run so much better? Materials used?

Just wondering...

volumes, shapes, weights and the materials come into play when you're trying to make power. Timing numbers are only one part of making a good running engine.

To think any of these kits are on par with top of the line OEM products, is nothing more than a pipe dream. You get what you pay for "most of the time". Know what you're buying and make your dissensions accordingly. If I want something that will more than likely last a long time, I buy OEM. If I'm looking to save money and cut corners aftermarket is an option. I guess??

Y'all can buy all the Asian junk you want and make Communist countries rich, at the exact same time you're calling representatives in our own country Communists. At least Brad stands behind what he believes and doesn't sell his soul buying Walmart junk. Just my opinion, dislike it all you want, we're still free to think and do as we please.

 

[bucknfeller]

Y'all can buy all the Asian junk you want and make Communist countries rich, at the exact same time you're calling representatives in our own country Communists. At least Brad stands behind what he believes and doesn't sell his soul buying Walmart junk. Just my opinion, dislike it all you want, we're still free to think and do as we please.

To the best of my knowledge none of the kits are made here in the USA, so what does it matter if were making the Germans, Japs, Chineese, or Italians rich? That part is not really a factor to me, once the $ leaves the country I don't really give a oop: where it goes. All of us fund hostile nations every day at the gas pump. But like you say..."we're still free to think and do as we please"

 

[bcorradi]

Ya I agree with you.

Sorry to rephrase I was agreeing with Andyshine

 

[bcorradi]

To the best of my knowledge none of the kits are made here in the USA, so what does it matter if were making the Germans, Japs, Chineese, or Italians rich? That part is not really a factor to me, once the $ leaves the country I don't really give a oop: where it goes. All of us fund hostile nations every day at the gas pump. But like you say..."we're still free to think and do as we please"

I'd way rather make the italians, japs, germans, or swedes rich vs the chinese, but it is up to you.

 

[Naked Arborist]

I don't think Stihl are making millions from replacement P&C kits.

Think about that statement again. The quality is going down yet, the price is going up? hum... You can bet your ass they are making millions and using there past history of good quality to do it every single day. IMHO the internal quality of what they produce is going down as time passes. Some things do improve with technology and engineering but overall quality control in the main base line parts is starting to degrade as time passes.

 

[Naked Arborist]

I got a newb question for brad.

From all the reading it sounds like if you guys get a saw to port you dont really care what the cylinder looks like because you are going to work your magic and smooth everything out. If you ported one of these early cylinders to the exact specs that you did and oem kit, how did it not make the same amount of power as the oem kit? You guys massage these things to your standards to bring out all the ponies they got so what was the X factor that made the oem run so much better? Materials used?

Just wondering...

The short answer is, you can't work with what is not there. Try removing material from a place that did not have enough to begin with in terms of thickness or the "meat". You can not raise the floor or lower the roof without machine work on the base. That changes soo many other things, not going there right now. I'd like to see you get a nice gentle flowing radius from a short almost 90 degree angle. Then I have to explain the laws of air flow, eight degrees and wind shear with turbulence vs tumble. This is waaaay to hard to explain here.:frown:

Am I wrong for shutting up now???

 

[Justsaws]

The 395 kits sure look tempting. Anybody seen any of the new 3120 kits?

BTW, I was told that there was a new AM 3120 kit availible, I have no idea if it is a new and improved kit or not but would like to know. Price was very nice compared to OEM. It was not a Meteor kit.

 

[MCW]

You got a pic of one of those fancy 77cc 365/372BB kits? What do they usually do for compression?

Actually I haven't got any in stock to take photos of. The only photo is one I have from eBay which doesn't show the ports etc. The port quality etc is the same as the MS660 BB and Dolmar/Makita BB kits I posted photos of earlier. They have pulled between 155-165psi when checked on a number of saws. As mentioned though I only ever sold them with Caber rings and I've seen Caber rings on AM P&C kits lift compression by as much as 15psi over the supplied rings. Regardless of the quality of the kits I still supply Caber rings with most of the kits I sell. They are only USD$12 a set delivered so cheap insurance in my book. In fact some P&C manufacturers have stated that they CAN supply higher quality rings on request for around USD$5-8 extra per kit but I'm still a tad cautious...

Y'all can buy all the Asian junk you want and make Communist countries rich, at the exact same time you're calling representatives in our own country Communists. At least Brad stands behind what he believes and doesn't sell his soul buying Walmart junk. Just my opinion, dislike it all you want, we're still free to think and do as we please.

Unfortunately Andy the major players are worse than we are for outsourcing business to China. Every single new Stihl sold is likely to have far more Chinese componentry on it than you or I realise...

Think about that statement again. The quality is going down yet, the price is going up? hum... You can bet your ass they are making millions and using there past history of good quality to do it every single day. IMHO the internal quality of what they produce is going down as time passes. Some things do improve with technology and engineering but overall quality control in the main base line parts is starting to degrade as time passes.

That's right and I agree on the quality decline. My comment was based on the fact that few people actually buy original OEM Stihl piston and cylinder kits anyway due to their price so buying aftermarket piston and cylinders wouldn't hurt Stihl's bottom line one bit. Stihl can outsource components to Chinese manufacturers yet somehow people like you and me are evil and wrecking the world's economy if WE do it.

The 395 kits sure look tempting. Anybody seen any of the new 3120 kits?

BTW, I was told that there was a new AM 3120 kit availible, I have no idea if it is a new and improved kit or not but would like to know. Price was very nice compared to OEM. It was not a Meteor kit.

There are a couple of 3120 kits available and one at least has been available for a few years. The key isn't to look for Husqvarna 3120XP kits but Partner K1250 kits. The K1250 is a concrete cutting saw but runs the same engine.
They are good kits and a few of the ones I supplied are in the Australian racing scene doing quite well with minimal development and as yet no machining. With some more work they should be able to match it with the OEM powered saws in the right hands.

 

[Rudolf73]

Had an old 660BB kit laying around so I thought I would post some pics

 

[thomas1]

Y'all can buy all the Asian junk you want and make Communist countries rich, at the exact same time you're calling representatives in our own country Communists. At least Brad stands behind what he believes and doesn't sell his soul buying Walmart junk. Just my opinion, dislike it all you want, we're still free to think and do as we please.

Evidently, you've never looked at Brad's lathe buying thread. I guess selling your soul doesn't include machine tools or measuring devices? :msp_rolleyes:

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

volumes, shapes, weights and the materials come into play when you're trying to make power. Timing numbers are only one part of making a good running engine.

To think any of these kits are on par with top of the line OEM products, is nothing more than a pipe dream. You get what you pay for "most of the time". Know what you're buying and make your dissensions accordingly. If I want something that will more than likely last a long time, I buy OEM. If I'm looking to save money and cut corners aftermarket is an option. I guess??

Y'all can buy all the Asian junk you want and make Communist countries rich, at the exact same time you're calling representatives in our own country Communists. At least Brad stands behind what he believes and doesn't sell his soul buying Walmart junk. Just my opinion, dislike it all you want, we're still free to think and do as we please.

So what pistonand cylinders are not made ina communist, socialist Nation. not arguing just asking.

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

Think about that statement again. The quality is going down yet, the price is going up? hum... You can bet your ass they are making millions and using there past history of good quality to do it every single day. IMHO the internal quality of what they produce is going down as time passes. Some things do improve with technology and engineering but overall quality control in the main base line parts is starting to degrade as time passes.

Unfortunatly this is true in most if not all aspects of products.

 

[ZeroJunk]

So what pistonand cylinders are not made ina communist, socialist Nation. not arguing just asking.

Meteor, Episan, maybe others are made in Italy. Not sure about their politics, or Taiwans for that matter.
This country is headed full steam toward socialism.
So, that argument is getting blurred.
But, it is hard to buy American to support your own when they don't make it.

 

[albert]

I haven't seen a meteor kit early or current in person. I would bet the current ones are decent. Aftermarket kits are an option to get a fried saw running again and most do and perform at or very close to stock levels at a reasonable cost. 99.9% of end users could care less if the ports and castings are a work of art. Bradley called meteor kits junk based on an early production part, he also called newer stihl made cylinders junk, I haven't seen one case were the newer stihl, so called junk cylinders, produced less than rated power or failed earlier. I also never seen a aftermarket cylinder with a port way too wide. These kit were never designed to be modified. Use what you like, Brad and others seem to think there is enough of a market for cylinders with optimzed porting and immaculate castings at cost less than oem. What would it cost and how many would sell?

 

[Mastermind]

I haven't seen a meteor kit early or current in person. I would bet the current ones are decent. Aftermarket kits are an option to get a fried saw running again and most do and perform at or very close to stock levels at a reasonable cost. 99.9% of end users could care less if the ports and castings are a work of art. Bradley called meteor kits junk based on an early production part, he also called newer stihl made cylinders junk, I haven't seen one case were the newer stihl, so called junk cylinders, produced less than rated power or failed earlier. I also never seen a aftermarket cylinder with a port way too wide. These kit were never designed to be modified. Use what you like, Brad and others seem to think there is enough of a market for cylinders with optimzed porting and immaculate castings at cost less than oem. What would it cost and how many would sell?

I get a lot of questions about the cylinders in my sig......most guys are wanting to see them in action after a few months before committing. The price on a completely modded kit is more than a new OEM top end......but less than a ported OEM top end. So the investment is substantial.

I just ported my own 372 Meteor top end saw so I can compare the gains to an OEM setup. I'll also be reporting on durability. This saw is going into the hands of a firewood operation for a few weeks........if they don't kill it no one will.

 

[2dogs]

Just curious here, who makes Husqvarna OEM piston and cylinders?

 

[SawTroll]

Just curious here, who makes Husqvarna OEM piston and cylinders?

Mostly Mahle and Gilardoni - KolbenSchmidt used to be another sourse, not sure it still is?