I meant the part about baiting in good fun, certainly not in the negative accusatory sense.
Mr. HE
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- Thread starter THALL10326
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I meant the part about baiting in good fun, certainly not in the negative accusatory sense.
Mr. HE
Paul001
Addicted to ArboristSite
Actually I was thinking about it and you're the one that baited us on this one. Very cleverly done I might add; and pointing the finger at the rocket donkey takes the cake. :hmm3grin2orange:
Here's how I figure it: You are not big into modded saws, it has come up in the past. Overall I'd say you're rather reasonable about it; they're just not your cup of tea.
You see this blurb in the latest release from on hi...er, Stihl, and so you post it. A smart and thinking man like yourself knows it will generate a good healthy discussion, and it certainly has; all's fair.
Now my take on it since I've had a little more time to cogitate and masticate and consider. We need input. More input. Basically we need to know what the enforcement mechanism is, how/if the law defines retailer because a law always defines words, or else the agency or courts define them. Also would be good to know what is meant by a manufacturer, since that is far more likely where they would place a chainsaw modder.
If we use autos as an example the modding market is alive and well. Emissions enforcement is almost nil, carried out mostly by state DEQ's through emissions testing. Most of the DEQ's measure the emissions and rarely check the equipment on the car anymore from my experience with them. (I pause for a moment to thank anything and everything that I no longer live where I'm subject to such religious rituals, but I digress.)
I could envision where the law would allow a modder to operate if they made say less than a hundred saws a year. Or they could label them as experimental saws, or special application saws, heck, maybe even call them faulty. You see where it starts to become maybe nothing overall?
Anyway, that’s some of my thoughts on it.
Thanks for starting the thread and a lively discussion.
Mr. HE
PS I have my own inklings, but I leave the judgment of rocket donkeys morals to the power in which he does not believe, I'm sure we call all agree that's fair.:hmm3grin2orange:
I suggested one path several pages back. If the modder sells the muffler/cylinder to be installed by the end user...
Hell of alot of custom machine shops/after market bolt on power adds available in Cali, NY, NJ, etc. There will be a market providing someone is willing to risk the fines and has deep enough pockets to give it a go in court.
I'm not sure the market is large enough to support such actions.
Additionally, the "letter" has a lot of ambiguous statements in it leading me to wonder if I could be fined just by selling units produced by a manufacture that ends up not being compliant.
Enforcement and testing are going to be two key issues.
THALL10326
The Champ
I meant the part about baiting in good fun, certainly not in the negative accusatory sense.
Mr. HE
I'm with ya, I didn't take any offence. Far as me though I was just passing along some info. Hell what folks do with it is up to them. Whats the ole saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink,
Paul001
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm with ya, I didn't take any offence. Far as me though I was just passing along some info. Hell what folks do with it is up to them. Whats the ole saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink,
Tom,
Am I correct the wording of that letter seemed strange?
THALL10326
The Champ
Good post there. I'll be down at Stihl Inc next Friday. While there I'll try to get some more understandable and concrete info concerning EPA, dealers and end users. Someone there should be able to tell us exactly what EPA has in mind..
THALL10326
The Champ
That it did indeed...
willsaw4beer
Addicted to ArboristSite
What about dp covers?
Paul001
Addicted to ArboristSite
As I understand it, a dealer who makes any modifications to a saw is in violation. If the saw came with a DP, fine...but you can't add one.
willsaw4beer
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well what if the one that came with my saw 'broke':monkey:? Are they still going to be available?
(I'd just put it on myself to save the local guy the stress/ save money on the install)
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Brad, I already made it clear that I am not going to respond to your baiting. Did you have trouble comprehending my words?
Yep, that was clear, I believe you now, I can see you meant it. LOL
Dude you are too much fun sometimes.
Mr. HE
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Dude you are too much fun sometimes.
Mr. HE
If this site isn't fun, then what good is it?
I'm with ya, I didn't take any offence. Far as me though I was just passing along some info. Hell what folks do with it is up to them. Whats the ole saying, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink,
All cool.
You sure are right about the four foot creatures.
One thing I'm kind of curious about is why Stihl, as a private company, is concerned with what the EPA is doing at the retail level. I mean, obviously they care, since the retailer sells their product; but would they not be opening themselves up by even passing on the information? A dealer could say "Stihl, you told me XYZ and the EPA added a BS and I got fined, now you owe me." Could it be that Stihl is trying to discourage dealers from modding a saw? Maybe I'm over thinking this, kinda bored at the moment. lol
Mr. HE
Space don't taunt the boy, if he sees that you keep posting he'll just keep picking at you.
THALL10326
The Champ
All cool.
You sure are right about the four foot creatures.
One thing I'm kind of curious about is why Stihl, as a private company, is concerned with what the EPA is doing at the retail level. I mean, obviously they care, since the retailer sells their product; but would they not be opening themselves up by even passing on the information? A dealer could say "Stihl, you told me XYZ and the EPA added a BS and I got fined, now you owe me." Could it be that Stihl is trying to discourage dealers from modding a saw? Maybe I'm over thinking this, kinda bored at the moment. lol
Mr. HE
Well I think its good on their part to keep us informed. As far as opening theirselves up thats not really possible with EPA. They have to follow EPA guidelines at time of manufacture. Their units are all batch tested and reports from their labs are sent to EPA. If those test results don't meet EPA requirements that batch doesn't leave the factory until it does meet EPA requirements. That goes for all manufacturers. Fact is pure and simple whether any of us like it or not, EPA rules the roost.
Far as them discouraging the dealers not to modify saws thats with every maker for alot of reasons, not just EPA reasons. Big thing called liability. No one wants to be stuck with a lawsuit over some piddly non-sense in which the end user could use as an excuse as to why he feels after the accident he's due 5 million bucks or so. Ask any insurance company how they feel about altering chainsaws. You will be amazed as what they tell you..
How exactly does EPA expect to catch us?:monkey:
smokinj
Addicted to ArboristSite
+1 cant see anyone looking to see if your running somthing less than stock I hope are Gov. can spend money else where
I would guess they'll send four-footed pack animals around to spy on us.:greenchainsaw:
Mr. HE
LarryTheCableGuy
Addicted to ArboristSite
Well crap...........Does this mean i can get in trouble for modding an electric.
I tried to rep ya for that one!
221!!
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Banacanin
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ghandi and Rosa Parks did no t hold your position, thankfully neither does anyone else
