More m-tronics coming

[Slamm]

Well Sam...if you're that unhappy with the way things are run here you're welcome, more than welcome really, to pack up and move on.

I don't particularly remember pointing out anything about how anything was run, but if the moderator points out that I'm more than welcome to pack up and move on, then I guess that is what I should do.

I'm not the one thats unhappy, I actually have a lot of fun here, but I'm simply and logically pointing out what is going on with Sawtroll, just like everyone else does every week without fail, that in and of itself apparently makes others quite unhappy. I have no problem leaving a place where I'm not welcome, as the whole point of a forum is to share experience and experiences with others, if mine are not welcome, then its best to seek other places.

Later,

Sam

 

[Gologit]

I don't particularly remember pointing out anything about how anything was run, but if the moderator points out that I'm more than welcome to pack up and move on, then I guess that is what I should do.

I'm not the one thats unhappy, I actually have a lot of fun here, but I'm simply and logically pointing out what is going on with Sawtroll, just like everyone else does every week without fail, that in and of itself apparently makes others quite unhappy. I have no problem leaving a place where I'm not welcome, as the whole point of a forum is to share experience and experiences with others, if mine are not welcome, then its best to seek other places.

Later,

Sam

Thank you.

 

[2dogs]

otstir:

...but sawtroll does know how terrible the MS441C-M really is...

[video=youtube_share;ghmLiguFID4]http://youtu.be/ghmLiguFID4[/video]

Was this a demo of dull chains?

 

[indiansprings]

o ans

I've been working on saws all day, but to answer the question on how the fuel injection works, yes it is electronic, they have not released any info on what saws will become injected, but I'm sure they will take the climbers saws under consideration, and prolly not inject them, as they do have to be primed 5-7 pumps on a either a cold or hot start as their is no power supply to run a fuel pump, unless they are deveolping such a pump, if they are it is being kept close to the vest. The fuel injection is the berries imho, simple, simple to diagnois and super easy to work on, pretty much plug and play, it will make it almost impossible for a non dealer to work on unless they want to spend north of 500.00 to bootleg the diagnostic tool from a dealer. Don't even have to start the saw to tune it. As far as current 441 models only the 441CM is being continued, regular 441's have been discontinued.
I also think you'll see more 261 type filteration, the 362 is going to be a running change this year. They've already been tested in the field. I'm glad to see them focused on weight reduction as well.
It seems we're all seeing improvements whether it be from Husky, Stihl, Echo and others, I remember when we all thought the sky was falling when the first strato's hit, well imho we've got better saws than two-three years ago and the improvements are continuing irregardless of brand which is good for all of us.

 

[2dogs]

Well Sam...if you're that unhappy with the way things are run here you're welcome, more than welcome really, to pack up and move on.

No, no, no. I don't want Sam to leave. He speaks the same way I do. Blunt. With a capital B. I like that. He just needs to put Sawtroll on his ignore list and get back to work.

Besides Gologit, he's a bullrider. They're a little numb on both ends.

 

[XSKIER]

I'm not sure I believe the whole 5-7 primer pump thing yet. Come on, if the rednecks in Minnesota can put battery less efi on a 1998 arctic cat 600, why can't those brilliant German engineers do it on a saw 15 years later? Patented technology?
You know, one of those sleds can sit for six months and fire up in two pulls on stale fuel...
otstir:

 

[indiansprings]

Trust me, just came from a meeting on Fri and we have sold a 500I fuel injected cut off saw, five to seven pumps on this first version, hot,warm or cold, remember it's the first version, who knows what they've got coming down the pike.
Another thing is that the fuel filter is magnetic and you must run the magnetic fuel filter in them to make sure any metal debris that might make it's way in the tank gets caught by the filter before it would make it's way to the injector.

 

[naturelover]

Will just say that those that had run the 441C here, like Sam and Officer's Match, were opinions that I listened to when purchasing my 441C. They had posted real world experiences they had with the saw, and while ST has called it a fat a$$ saw, I really like it. Though if I had really of listened, I'd have gotten a wrap version....

A 576XP AT was also on the list, one reason I didn't purchase it was because there wasn't as many positive posts about it here.

ST is a wealth of information, but I think he just pops on these threads somtetimes to :sword: with some on here, which is what it is.

People are passionate about saws, otherwise they wouldn't be here. I'm an unabashed tree hugger, but still enjoy running a saw or two, and of course more with tinkering and fixing them up. I've learned a lot about the more intricate and extensive repairs of chainsaws and much more in my time here.

So for long-standing members to feel they need to leave or such because of, well......this, isn't in the best interest of AS imho.

Anyway, hope all stick around, and hopefully we can get back on topic with this thread.

I want a 241C...

 

[2dogs]

441 with a 28" Cannon bar on the fireline wielded by my son Cody.

 

[XSKIER]

2dogs, that's a nice son you have there. However the MS441R pictured is not an M-Tronic, unless its top cover was replaced with a non M-Tronic part?

 

[StihlKiwi]

I don't particularly remember pointing out anything about how anything was run, but if the moderator points out that I'm more than welcome to pack up and move on, then I guess that is what I should do.

I'm not the one thats unhappy, I actually have a lot of fun here, but I'm simply and logically pointing out what is going on with Sawtroll, just like everyone else does every week without fail, that in and of itself apparently makes others quite unhappy. I have no problem leaving a place where I'm not welcome, as the whole point of a forum is to share experience and experiences with others, if mine are not welcome, then its best to seek other places.

Later,

Sam

Doesn't just have to be experiences. Opinions are allowed too, as are jokes, banter, and nonsensical ramblings. AS has them all in spades

But you're welcome to do as you please. Remember when people didn't agree with your felling technique, even though you're real experienced, and you left then as well?

 

[2dogs]

2dogs, that's a nice son you have there. However the MS441R pictured is not an M-Tronic, unless its top cover was replaced with a non M-Tronic part?

Right on both accounts. The saw is an early MS441 that I added the wrap handle to thanks to Lakeside Andy. This saw has been great though I believe it is the series that had vapor lock problems. It was a backup to my MS660 and better on the small stuff.

 

[indiansprings]

On those that had the vapor lock problem we found drilling a larger hole in the fuel tank vent often solved the issue, we had loggers running them out in 110 degree weather and after messing with a few our top tech drilled some larger holes in the vent and the problem was solved.

 

[2dogs]

Interesting!

 

[H 2 H]

otstir:

...but sawtroll does know how terrible the MS441C-M really is...

[video=youtube_share;ghmLiguFID4]http://youtu.be/ghmLiguFID4[/video]

I didn't know ST ran that big of dawgs on his saw's :msp_scared:

 

[Andyshine77]

On those that had the vapor lock problem we found drilling a larger hole in the fuel tank vent often solved the issue, we had loggers running them out in 110 degree weather and after messing with a few our top tech drilled some larger holes in the vent and the problem was solved.

Now that's real good info folks. I've seen this happen with a few saw models, normally an easy fix like you said.

 

[Stihlman441]

Does anyone know the weight of the 241 CM powerhead?

Displacement cm³ 42.6
Weight kg 1) 4.7
Power-to-weight ratio kg/kW 2.1
Power output kW/bhp 2.2/3.0
Vibration levels left/right m/s² 2) 2.9/2.9
Oilomatic saw chain pitch/type .325" RSC
Sound power level dB(A) 3) 112
Sound pressure level dB(A) 3) 102

:msp_biggrin:

 

[Stihlman441]

441Cs rule,ported or muff modded they are the best user freindly,productive firewood saw for me in the Stihl line up.

 

[Anthony_Va.]

441Cs rule,ported or muff modded they are the best user freindly,productive firewood saw for me in the Stihl line up.

Yes, I agree. I have a 372xpw and a Dolmar 7900, but I still grab the 441C for the major cutting. Your description of the 441C is spot on IMO.

 

[MCW]

Seems to me you misinterpreted MCW's post a little.
You come across real strong with your opinions on 441's, amsteel rope, semi-chisel chain and whatever else you use that's the best(?), just like Sawtroll does with many saws.

Or at least that's what I got out of it

Um yeah. I agree.

Correct, but I've used those things that you have named. I've photographed and video'd myself and others using them, given examples and such. I've explained over and over why one product out produced the other product after using both products for a lengthy time, and I rarely speak about things that I haven't actually used.

I mean he literally defeats the purpose of discussing various pro's and con's about using different products, because his opinion is usually unfounded, and then he will argue with those that have actually used the product and like it or don't like it based on actual hands on experience with that same product.

You're arguing. Niko is disagreeing. There is a difference.

I think you've probably got a tad excited about my comment. Now as far as videoing and documenting everything you've done to provide proof that you're running the best saw on the planet well that's fine. I have many videos running Dolmar 7900's and Husky 390XP's but does that prove they are the best saws going? In reality we need input from both a practical standpoint (your's), and a technical standpoint (Sawtroll's). You've taken what I said as a personal attack which is no different to how you've reacted to Sawtroll's comments. I don't agree with a lot of Sawtroll's comments either and have even taken a similar stance to you, although somewhat less aggressively.
The 441C's are an excellent saw. I think they have many things going for them and have never ever argued with you from an efficiency standpoint as I am well aware at just how good the M-Tronic systems are (I have owned a couple).
My biggest dislike of the 441's is simply their balance. I'm that used to the feel of 7900's and Huskies that it was just completely foreign to me. I also know Stihl guys that have picked up my saws and disliked the feel immediately too. I don't actually argue with them simply because they didn't like the balance of my saw.

I get the fact that Sawtroll is like an old hunting dog around here, and some people like to pet him from time to time. Thats fine, but when that house pet, gets in front of the dogs that are actually coming back from doing something, then its an issue, not a big issue, and I don't mind it, so far as its fair game to comment on it, but bi-monthly now, someone feels sorry for the ole'dog and gets mad at one of the other younger dogs that just came in from hunting because they ran into him a little to hard. Thats just life. I'm okay with that, but obviously others aren't.

I don't come from a state of mind where people get free passes just because they are feeble minded or don't feel like getting their hands dirty, if that is the case here, then I can be gentle too. I just didn't know it was "Be compassionate for those that don't personally use saw related products" Week, right now, or I would have ignored his last few responses like I usually do.

Sam

In all honesty, I find this discussion about how to gently handle Sawtroll's lack of experience opinion a little weird.

If a newbie came on here and said that he logs with a wildthing with a 28" bar, his monitor would catch on fire, as it is evident that that rookie has no experience with what he is saying. After that the rookie states that his wildthing can smoke a MS460. Well now we really know the guy is off his rocker.

This isn't any different than Sawtroll. Its obvious or a well know fact he has no experience with what he is giving his opinion of. So it should be fair game to point that out to the rest of the world, and usually this is fine if it is someone other than Sawtroll, its even common practice, but again this is "love Sawtroll week" this week, so I'll just wait a little while and then it will be okay to make the exact same posts about him. I've seen this revolving door several times with regards to Sawtroll on this forum, as like I said its human to feel sorry for others, and most everyone feels sorry for Sawtroll.

Of course, it would be wrong of anyone to suggest that the Troll just quit giving his opinion about products he has little to zero experience with, I'm pretty sure thats about the only thing that anyone ever gripes about him about, but then that would limit his freedom of speech and his post count, so onward we march, never fix the issue, just get mad at those that pointed out what started the issue, until nobody knows which came first the chicken or the egg, LOL.

Sam

No point responding in depth to your above comments Sam. Regardles of whether Sawtroll has gotten on your nerves or not your above responses are just down right condescending and nothing but a personal attack. Your reference to dogs sort of summed it up.
If you think some of us just like patting Sawtroll on the back because we feel sorry for him then I've got news for you. It's actually called respect for other members, something you need a lesson on.
As far as thinking Sawtroll hasn't ever got his hands dirty I think you really need to do a bit of homework on his background.

My comment in regard to the 261 and 241CM was simply to put things into perspective and to show that I am not simply a rabid supporter of one brand or one particular model. In larger saws I like Huskies and the 7900's. If I was to say I prefer a ported Dolmar 7900 over a ported 441CM then you'd be straight up for an argument quoting all sorts of facts and figures on production, despite never running my ported 7900.

Now I've agreed with you on many things, many times, but I really think you need to take Sawtroll's comments as simply a different point of view to your own.

My original post that you got so upset about stands. "Niko is no less passionate about his 346XP's than you are about your 441CM's".