This thread makes me wonder if this hard-pull problem is why Stihl brought out the easy-start mechanism for the 251c. I have one, and yes, it works. No decomp is included, but the spring assist makes that unnecessary.
MS 250 can't pull
- Thread starter Santa Jim
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Stihl won't admit there is a problem with the MS-250. As you note, the 251c certainly argues that point. Perhaps if they only sold the 250 to young stout he-men? Of course, we eventually become old men. This spring will tell if mine's usable or if it's ready for its next stout lad (aka victim).
The pulley on the 025/ms250 is too small for the saw's displacement. The reduced leverage makes it hard to pull. If there's an AM pulley that is larger it'd be a good thing to try.
The problem with one pawl starters is there is too much off centre force that can increase wear on rope drum mounting post and the pawl contact points and eventually, when subjected to starting pressure, it can cause the drum to skew off centre of the FW and jam.
Ok, I just got back from my garage, started up my MS250. How I did it: started with empty fuel tank, last time started about a year or more ago so I filled the tank with non ethanol gas mixed to about 40:1, used a small amount of fuel to prime it so I wouldn't have to pull so much. It started and ran on second pull and kept running, rich at first then ran great after a short warm up. I shut it off and started it again, first pull if I remember right. This may not be your typical 250 as I built it myself from parts in the garage, some OEM and some aftermarket parts. Has a new fully adjustable carburetor on it. It has a 3/8 LP bar and chain on it and it really goes through the limbs and small stuff! I think when I built this I also built two others because I had a lot of parts at that time, the other two have been sold. I'm 79 as of last week and had no trouble pulling on it except it does appear to have a bunch of compression. I didn't drop-start it like I had to on my 044...
Smitty Smithsonite
ArboristSite Operative
Santa, I have seen this problem a handful of times. When some engines sit for more than a couple months in an area prone to severe seasonal changes, carbon buildup on top of the piston swells up, and increases compression. In a tiny saw it doesn't take a whole lot to increase compression significantly. I've even seen some cases where you cannot get the piston to pass TDC, since the carbon has swelled to the point where it contacts the cylinder head, and cannot be compressed. I can't explain the physics behind this at all, but I have seen it with my own eyes more that once. In fact, I have a picture of it from a 4-stroke generator. Look at how THICK the carbon is! It looks and feels like a chunk of rubber. How it became that way, I haven't the slightest idea, but it did! Just recently I ran into this on a 4-stroke 1978 snowblower that sat many years.
I would suggest removing the cylinder assembly and scrape carbon from both the piston crown, and carefully scrape the cylinder head as well. While it's apart, check your recoil assembly, too, just to be sure that's working smoothly.
This is going to sound like a sales pitch, but I HIGHLY recommend running Amsoil Saber at 100:1 in your saw. You will never have this carbon buildup issue again if you do. Just based on personal experience with air cooled 2-strokes powering MANY different pieces of equipment.
I would suggest removing the cylinder assembly and scrape carbon from both the piston crown, and carefully scrape the cylinder head as well. While it's apart, check your recoil assembly, too, just to be sure that's working smoothly.
This is going to sound like a sales pitch, but I HIGHLY recommend running Amsoil Saber at 100:1 in your saw. You will never have this carbon buildup issue again if you do. Just based on personal experience with air cooled 2-strokes powering MANY different pieces of equipment.
That's another thing about my 250, I rebuilt the engine and ran it just a short time before storing it so it probably didn't have any build up of carbon..
Well Smitty you might be on to some thing with your carbon idea.I have a couple of saws that pull over hard kinda draggy like.They turn over great once started.
Great post but you wont be converting me to 100to1 or 50to1 even if Jesus made the mix oil.
Kash
Great post but you wont be converting me to 100to1 or 50to1 even if Jesus made the mix oil.
Kash
carbon readily absorbs moisture as high as 20% by weight. The 025 never seemed to suffer this issue making me wonder if the rope rotor is different sized and possibly swappable for better leverage.
Santa Jim:
Your complaint is a common one about hard to crank 250's.
You will hear about larger pull handles all kinds of things to help reduce the factory built in defect. I'm a Stihl guy, but the 250 is one that I would part with fast.
I have several Stihls that I use for firewood and the like new MS250 stays on the shelf usually.
It's hard to crank, does not start easily when cold unless I give it a slight prime first. I'm a tough guy and can crank most anything. My 250 runs and cuts good and start easy when warmed up, but I do not like a immediate workout BEFORE going to the wood pile for another work out.
I bring the rope up slowly until I feel the hard compression, get a good grip then pull through strong and if no start immediately go for the 2nd pull. I have to stop and go for the slow come up to compression usually for the 3rd pull. Some will also flood easily.
Also yours right now has the factory issue of hard to crank plus another issue, possibly needs a replacement carb.
You might want to consider just playing dumb, go to a Stihl dealer (or saw dealer) and brag on your saw. (It just won't start after I put it up running good) See what they offer trade in or run an ad and brag on the saw and sell as is.
Get an easier to crank saw.
Your complaint is a common one about hard to crank 250's.
You will hear about larger pull handles all kinds of things to help reduce the factory built in defect. I'm a Stihl guy, but the 250 is one that I would part with fast.
I have several Stihls that I use for firewood and the like new MS250 stays on the shelf usually.
It's hard to crank, does not start easily when cold unless I give it a slight prime first. I'm a tough guy and can crank most anything. My 250 runs and cuts good and start easy when warmed up, but I do not like a immediate workout BEFORE going to the wood pile for another work out.
I bring the rope up slowly until I feel the hard compression, get a good grip then pull through strong and if no start immediately go for the 2nd pull. I have to stop and go for the slow come up to compression usually for the 3rd pull. Some will also flood easily.
Also yours right now has the factory issue of hard to crank plus another issue, possibly needs a replacement carb.
You might want to consider just playing dumb, go to a Stihl dealer (or saw dealer) and brag on your saw. (It just won't start after I put it up running good) See what they offer trade in or run an ad and brag on the saw and sell as is.
Get an easier to crank saw.
At my shop we sell a lot of MS 250’s. But before we sell them we talk to the customer about being a hard saw to pull over and having to generate a lot of speed on the start up pulls. We take them out back and show them the between the legs method and have them try to start it. If they can’t we show them the 251 CE Easy Start.
Customers that bought a 250 from a place like Ace Hardware that do not go over any aspects of the saw or how to start it bring the saw into us for “repairs” because they can’t get it started. We take it out back and start it right away to the customers shock. 99 percent of the time the customer can not pull the saw over fast enough to get it started.
Customers that bought a 250 from a place like Ace Hardware that do not go over any aspects of the saw or how to start it bring the saw into us for “repairs” because they can’t get it started. We take it out back and start it right away to the customers shock. 99 percent of the time the customer can not pull the saw over fast enough to get it started.
I have watched many times where a person attempting to start a saw cannot do so. The 3 most common things I have seen was, inexperience, too timid and not strong enough, either from age, physical limitations or injury and technique. Each time I have asked to have the saw and with a couple of pulls had it running. I am a drop starter, only way I know how, been doing it since I was around 12 - 13 years old but I don`t expect others to do so. The ones observing me say that is not safe , but it does get the saw started every time if the saw will start at all. The speed the flywheel spins over really has the ability to create a strong spark.
I drop-started for years, then I adopted the between-the-legs method. It's been many years now with the generally safer method. A few years ago I tried to drop-start a cantankerous saw and I nearly hit myself with the bar. Another skill lost. Sheesh. My backup is now the on-the-ground method, lol.
and yup, those ms250's can be a bear to start. It's too bad because they are decent when they are running. Decent power and nice handling little things. Ridiculously overpriced, vibrate too much, cheaply built, but decent nonetheless.
and yup, those ms250's can be a bear to start. It's too bad because they are decent when they are running. Decent power and nice handling little things. Ridiculously overpriced, vibrate too much, cheaply built, but decent nonetheless.
Dean-O wrote:
show them the between the legs method and have them try to start it.
That is also how I start saws also especially the MS250's.
I've not mentioned such since I got bad mouthed for being unsafe.
I mentioned this between the legs starting of my chainsaws in a post once upon a time, not sure it was on this site and I even got rotten eggs throwed at me for not being safe. Been running chain saws for years and climbing 500 feet plus communication towers doing antennas, lights and transmission lines and people wants to tell me I'm not safe.
Therefore I just stayed quiet about such until now.
show them the between the legs method and have them try to start it.
That is also how I start saws also especially the MS250's.
I've not mentioned such since I got bad mouthed for being unsafe.
I mentioned this between the legs starting of my chainsaws in a post once upon a time, not sure it was on this site and I even got rotten eggs throwed at me for not being safe. Been running chain saws for years and climbing 500 feet plus communication towers doing antennas, lights and transmission lines and people wants to tell me I'm not safe.
Therefore I just stayed quiet about such until now.
I have RELOCATED myself to the "PEANUT GALLERY" more than once.
Not such a bad observation location.
I often realize many silly posts come from/with inexperience.
Just for giggles I went out and fired up my 250 again, this time without priming it and it took 3 or 4 pulls before it hit, then one more to get it started. It was just about as hard as I would want one to pull, any harder and someone else would have to do it. This was starting it from the garage floor. I haven't noticed any flooding from this saw..
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When I was younger, I quite enjoyed the "between the legs method"...
That's how I start my saws too, especially when cold. I do drop start a couple of them when warm.
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Drop start all of mine and I am 75.---NOW you dont want to know MY MS 250 story so I wont bore you with it! Mine was a couple inch pull, then the bar was in your face.-- set it on the ground and all it did was fly out from under your foot! lol! --I consider that model as being JUNK! LOL!-- Now to fix the starting trouble on mine,---all I did was to buy a chimna knockoff carb with adjusting screws and now the 250 is a lot easier at starting. mine dont have a primer bulb so I have to take the top cover off and air filter off and pour gas in the carb before it will start which I dont mind doing. Still not the best starting when its hot but I never shut it off til it runs out of gas then I grab a different saw and go again. I am satisfied with mine and it will work your arss off in a hurry cause its a cuttin fool!
Was at an auciton last Friday and,---- no it wasnt a 250------it was a 025! -- thats the second Sthil that I ever got so hope it cuts as good as the 250. Hard starting the first time and carb wasnt set right but after it ran a bit things sounded way better. Tried to start it today an it started on the second pull so I am satisfied with it too.
All saw brands had a model or two that was NOT their better efforts! lol! Homelite had the 330, Echo had the 650, and I am sure you can think of more! lol!
Was at an auciton last Friday and,---- no it wasnt a 250------it was a 025! -- thats the second Sthil that I ever got so hope it cuts as good as the 250. Hard starting the first time and carb wasnt set right but after it ran a bit things sounded way better. Tried to start it today an it started on the second pull so I am satisfied with it too.
All saw brands had a model or two that was NOT their better efforts! lol! Homelite had the 330, Echo had the 650, and I am sure you can think of more! lol!
Mike Ray
ArboristSite Operative
Well I was hoping to see a post about hard to pull saws. I have an 023 stihl that I can't get to pull easy. Cranks pretty quick, cuts great with a Bailey's narrow kerf bar and chain. Replaced pawl on starter no change, no carbon build up , muffler opened up a little. Harder to pull than my makita 6401's, or Dolmar 5105, which I can drop start no problem, but not the 023, but I am 70 years young.I like the 023 cut two pick up loads of firewood last week one tank each without running out.
