ms440 Rebuild

[Dan Forsh]

After struggling with the flywheel nut, breaking a fin on the flywheel in the process, I have decided to call a timeout and order the proper tools. I will get good use out of them with all of the saws i have to rebuild, and I definitely don't want to struggle in the process. Luckily, I found a used oem replacement for $12. I was able to finally break loose the nut, however the I was unsuccessful in actually removing the flywheel. I will be ordering the following tools, please let me know if I missed anything.

-seal puller
-piston stop
-flywheel puller

Have you priced them up yet?

Piston stop, if it's the little plastic one is pennies, puller shouldn't be too bad, but that seal puller will make your eyes water.

But I must thank you at this point for bringing your problem to my attention. I'm in the process of rebuilding an 044 and am waiting on a new crankcase before I start my rebuild. Don't usually have much trouble with flywheels as the majority i do are the ones where you just wind the nut off a bit and whack the crank end with a hammer whilst holding the saws weight by the flywheel. Your woes made me look at it and realise this is one with the thread for a puller, no problem I thinks, I have a Stihl puller. Wrong thread, mines for the TS saws and 08S, so I might be joining you in buying one.

If you don't already know it's 1110 890 4500 and by my reckoning it should cost you less than $10 US. It's also used on quite a few other models including 024, 026, 028 so it will be definitely worthwhile getting.

 

[Carolina Diesel]

seal puller wasn't too bad, $17 for the Lisle as recommended on this thread. I removed a 290 flywheel last week and didn't have a problem, but after struggling last night, I am willing to shell out the cash to pick one up. It will be good to have around.

Have you priced them up yet?

Piston stop, if it's the little plastic one is pennies, puller shouldn't be too bad, but that seal puller will make your eyes water.

But I must thank you at this point for bringing your problem to my attention. I'm in the process of rebuilding an 044 and am waiting on a new crankcase before I start my rebuild. Don't usually have much trouble with flywheels as the majority i do are the ones where you just wind the nut off a bit and whack the crank end with a hammer whilst holding the saws weight by the flywheel. Your woes made me look at it and realise this is one with the thread for a puller, no problem I thinks, I have a Stihl puller. Wrong thread, mines for the TS saws and 08S, so I might be joining you in buying one.

If you don't already know it's 1110 890 4500 and by my reckoning it should cost you less than $10 US. It's also used on quite a few other models including 024, 026, 028 so it will be definitely worthwhile getting.

 

[Carolina Diesel]

Yes, I have a set of deep well sockets. They came in handy for removing the decompression valve.

I don`t recommend using a metal piston stop, the OEM Stihl plastic type work well. Do you have a deep well socket that will drive the two different diameter seals in?

 

[Carolina Diesel]

I picked up a ring compressor set, so I am good to go there. The 3/8" impact wrench for actually removing the flywheel? And did you mean I do or I do not need the flywheel puller tool? Already ordered the Lisle puller for $17 as recommended, but what was your recommendation since you advised against it?

I appreciate the offer on the impact wrench, but I have access to one at the shop.

A 3/8" impact wrench works BETTER than anything else for removing flywheels and clutches. You do need the flywheel puller tool. No seal puller and no piston stop, you'll probably want a ring compressor at some point.
I have an excellent pneumatic impact wrench, brand new, I want $25 for if you're interested.

 

[nmurph]

I had a Lisle seal puller and it didn't last long. The tang that fits under the seal lip straightened out after only a few seals. I took a good straight blade screwdriver and ground a notch a mm or so up from the tip and about 2mm deep. I use that as a hook to get under the seal. It works great; better than the Lisle ever did.

 

[Dan Forsh]

I picked up a ring compressor set, so I am good to go there. The 3/8" impact wrench for actually removing the flywheel? And did you mean I do or I do not need the flywheel puller tool? Already ordered the Lisle puller for $17 as recommended, but what was your recommendation since you advised against it?

I appreciate the offer on the impact wrench, but I have access to one at the shop.

I think he just meant the impact wrench to free the nut, that still won't get the flywheel off, so yes you will need the puller. I just ordered mine tonight in the hope I might get it for the weekend.

 

[Carolina Diesel]

I thought thats what he meant. I ordered mine last night, $21. Hopefully, it will get here soon, I'm so anxious to start putting this saw back together. I noticed you have a TS400. I have a ts 400 with low compression I will be rebuilding after the 440, 290 and (2) 441's. Any advice? I know finding oem parts seems to be very challenging.

I think he just meant the impact wrench to free the nut, that still won't get the flywheel off, so yes you will need the puller. I just ordered mine tonight in the hope I might get it for the weekend.

 

[Carolina Diesel]

That tool you made actually sounds very effective. When/if the Lisle craps out I will give that a shot. Heck I might make one now since I have a few days to kill before the flywheel puller arrives. Thanks for the great advice.

I had a Lisle seal puller and it didn't last long. The tang that fits under the seal lip straightened out after only a few seals. I took a good straight blade screwdriver and ground a notch a mm or so up from the tip and about 2mm deep. I use that as a hook to get under the seal. It works great; better than the Lisle ever did.

 

[Dan Forsh]

I thought thats what he meant. I ordered mine last night, $21. Hopefully, it will get here soon, I'm so anxious to start putting this saw back together. I noticed you have a TS400. I have a ts 400 with low compression I will be rebuilding after the 440, 290 and (2) 441's. Any advice? I know finding oem parts seems to be very challenging.

The TS 400 suffers from the same fate as all concrete saws, dirt ingestion. People don't keep the filters clean and then when the saw starts getting harder to start they take the prefilter out, then they take the inner filter out, leaving just the saturated cartridge filter in, then the carb sucks up the concrete dust and duly sandpapers the inlet side of the piston. If it's low and has still been running take the cylinder off and take out the piston, flip it over and compare the thickness of the piston skirts from inlet and exhaust sides, I suspect you will find a significant difference just by eye. It'll even wear through the Nicasil on the bore after they've have the piston replaced a couple times.

I had a shed full of them (literally about 18 parts saws) so parts were never too much of an issue when I did quite a lot of them on Ebay. I sold most of them off a few months back but I still have the one good one and a few carcases left.

P & C if you need them, I would recommend the Tecomec after market one, used loads of those in the past and always found the quality to be good.

BTW that puller sounds expensive, I paid just under £7 shipped for mine and dollar to the pound is running at about 1.5 at the moment, hence I suggested about $10.

 

[Carolina Diesel]

This saw was purchased from a local city, which means it was most certainly abused. I haven't disassembled the saw yet, but I am pretty certain it will need a new piston and cylinder. It looks like I will have to go aftermarket, as I haven't found an oem, and i will follow your advice.

Seemed expensive to me, but it was the cheapest I could find and it is scheduled to be here by the weekend, so I'm not complaining.

The TS 400 suffers from the same fate as all concrete saws, dirt ingestion. People don't keep the filters clean and then when the saw starts getting harder to start they take the prefilter out, then they take the inner filter out, leaving just the saturated cartridge filter in, then the carb sucks up the concrete dust and duly sandpapers the inlet side of the piston. If it's low and has still been running take the cylinder off and take out the piston, flip it over and compare the thickness of the piston skirts from inlet and exhaust sides, I suspect you will find a significant difference just by eye. It'll even wear through the Nicasil on the bore after they've have the piston replaced a couple times.

I had a shed full of them (literally about 18 parts saws) so parts were never too much of an issue when I did quite a lot of them on Ebay. I sold most of them off a few months back but I still have the one good one and a few carcases left.

P & C if you need them, I would recommend the Tecomec after market one, used loads of those in the past and always found the quality to be good.

BTW that puller sounds expensive, I paid just under £7 shipped for mine and dollar to the pound is running at about 1.5 at the moment, hence I suggested about $10.

 

[southbound]

Let me start by saying I have and use a flywheel puller....

Now that said the local stihl dealer does not here is what they do....

Impact to run the nut off

Tap a screwdriver between the flywheel and case.. You don't want to really have to force it in just enough for some pressure.

Get some brass and place it on the crank.

Hit brass with hammer...

Should pop right off

Not my way it it does work...

 

[Moparmyway]

Let me start by saying I have and use a flywheel puller....

Now that said the local stihl dealer does not here is what they do....

Impact to run the nut off

Tap a screwdriver between the flywheel and case.. You don't want to really have to force it in just enough for some pressure.

Get some brass and place it on the crank.

Hit brass with hammer...

Should pop right off

Not my way it it does work...

I have seen WAY too many mag cases ruined this way !!

I was taught by an older gentleman, a welder by trade, but his way has been bulletproof.

-Impact gun to remove nut
-Marvel mystery oil put on flywheel and crank, allow to soak a few minutes
-A first, then B if necessary
A. lightly tap the fins at the 12 and 6 O'Clock position relative to keyway with a hammer (anything between 2-4 pounds) - flywheel pops loose (have to watch carefully and listen, the hammer will make a different noise when you hit a loose flywheel fin)
B. Hold weight of saw with flywheel (rope if necessary or clamp vise grip onto fin @ 12 or 6 O'Clock relative to keyway) and use a variable speed air hammer on crank with nut level with last thread. Saw drops when flywheel pops loose

I have experimented with Denatured alcohol and Marvel Mystery oil mixed, as well as denatured alcohol and tranny fluid mixed, and they both work great ! You just have to shake them up real good, then wipe off when done.

I have also just squirt some 2 cycle mix gas onto the flywheel and crank, and that too works pretty well, just allow whatever fluid to sit and penetrate the taper before you try seperating the flywheel, it will save you the headache of boogerin up the shaft, and make you think that flywheel removal is easy !!

 

[Carolina Diesel]

My flywheel and seal puller arrived yesterday. I finally managed to pull the flywheel (yes, I know I need to clean behind it now), but based on the pictures can someone recommend my next step. The service manual doesn't appear to be much help as it's telling me to remove the key and pull the seal. It doesn't appear that I can remove the key and I am having a difficult time starting the Lisle and I wanted to ask before I go breaking stuff.

View attachment 300254View attachment 300255

 

[Andrew Wellman]

Pulling the seals?

My flywheel and seal puller arrived yesterday. I finally managed to pull the flywheel (yes, I know I need to clean behind it now), but based on the pictures can someone recommend my next step. The service manual doesn't appear to be much help as it's telling me to remove the key and pull the seal. It doesn't appear that I can remove the key and I am having a difficult time starting the Lisle and I wanted to ask before I go breaking stuff.

View attachment 300254View attachment 300255

Do you want to pull the seals next? You don't have to remove they key becuase its on the shaft taper and should not impede the seal coming off or going on. This is what I do for seals, if you are replacing them. I take a fine dry wall screw and puncture the seal and thread it into the metal rim of the seal. Dont go into the seal very far, you don't want to scratch the the balls, or break the plastic bearign retainer if it has one. The metal retainers are better. if you can remove the rubber lips of the seal with a razor knife then you can rotate the crank untill you know that you will not poke the bearing with the tip of the screws. Then I take a modified, masonry tool that is made for finishing grout lines on brick or cyinder block walls, to lever the screws upwards, thus pulling the seal out. I cut a slot in the tip of the tool wide enough to accept the screw shaft but catch the screw head. I also, make a fulcrum on the saw body out of anything that won't hurt the saw. It works slick every time. Don't drill the hole first, metal chips will get into your bearing and you may stab threw.

This is the tool that I modified
Marshalltown 81 3/4"X7/8" BRICK JOINT - 462-15524 - 462-15524 at Wares Direct

 

[Carolina Diesel]

Yes, I want to remove the seals next. I was having trouble getting the Lisle puller started, so I may follow your advice. I appreciate you being so detailed as I have never done this before, and I have read some people saying its simple and others saying it's very difficult.

Do you want to pull the seals next? You don't have to remove they key becuase its on the shaft taper and should not impede the seal coming off or going on. This is what I do for seals, if you are replacing them. I take a fine dry wall screw and puncture the seal and thread it into the metal rim of the seal. Dont go into the seal very far, you don't want to scratch the the balls, or break the plastic bearign retainer if it has one. The metal retainers are better. if you can remove the rubber lips of the seal with a razor knife then you can rotate the crank untill you know that you will not poke the bearing with the tip of the screws. Then I take a modified, masonry tool that is made for finishing grout lines on brick or cyinder block walls, to lever the screws upwards, thus pulling the seal out. I cut a slot in the tip of the tool wide enough to accept the screw shaft but catch the screw head. I also, make a fulcrum on the saw body out of anything that won't hurt the saw. It works slick every time. Don't drill the hole first, metal chips will get into your bearing and you may stab threw.

This is the tool that I modified
Marshalltown 81 3/4"X7/8" BRICK JOINT - 462-15524 - 462-15524 at Wares Direct

 

[little possum]

Are you from NC?

 

[Carolina Diesel]

i'm from richmond va, but i live south of charlotte

Are you from NC?

 

[Andrew Wellman]

My home made seal puller photos

View attachment 300352View attachment 300363

 

[little possum]

Wish I woulda seen this thread before hand. Coulda helped ya out. Im a hour north of Charlotte.
If you run into needin any more tools, help, etc. Hit me up.

 

[Carolina Diesel]

oh ok awesome. I go to virginia several times a month and take 77 to 85 the entire way.

Wish I woulda seen this thread before hand. Coulda helped ya out. Im a hour north of Charlotte.
If you run into needin any more tools, help, etc. Hit me up.