My splitter build

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Pump above tank may be alright once it is primed but on firsts fire up it runs dry...or at least with only assembly oil. I would at least try to fill the pump before firing the first time.

I really don't understand the hangup on making the tank horizontal and holding the axles. Very simple to put a big verticle tank on, it would be out of the way and remove any doubts about pump location.

Harry K

I've noticed with mine that when I'm pulling the motor over it primes up, you can feel it in how hard the motor is turning over. It will prime when trying to start. Maybe different with a electric start vs. a hand pulling jobbie.
 
flooded inlet (fluid level above pump) is always better, but thousands of industrial units are built with the electrtic motor sitting on top of the tank. I would not worry about it. Just keep the inlet large and minimal restriction, adn watch your cold starts with thick oil.


The issues are not so much 'loss of prime' as this is not a centrifiugal pump , not like a water pump. The gear pump and system won't run back. The total loop is a circle and the head pulling on one side is balanced by oil in the return line pulling the other way. It can pull air through a bad shaft seal, but a foot or two of negative head is no big deal. As long as the system is tight, it won't run back. The gear pump is in theory at least all sealed with tight clearances between gears, etc.

The main issue is simply the actual pressure at the pump inlet, to avoid cavitation. That is far more destructive than a bit of air.

Don't run an unvented tank. Many of the cheap ones have plugs for fill port. Pressure is no big deal, most pump shaft seals can take a few psi of positive pressure. Pulling a negative pressure is more troublesome. Than it can cavitate the inlet. You need some thermal expansion, but mainly the volume of the steel cylinder rod has to be made up in the oil level rising and falling. Get a good spin on filter element on as a breather/vent. Run it several inches up if you can to minimize oil vapors and splash coming out, and minimize drawing in water vapor from rain splashing on a flat metal surface.

First start: You can pull the pump over, or just crank the engine. Gear pump means open center valves, and the pump ouput goes through the manual valve to tank at no load. No worries. Cycle the cylinder to fully purge air WITHOUT putting any load or building pressure. Compressing air in the cylinder doesn't hurt the cylinder. But the big flow surge when the cylinder goes to retract, the compressed air blows oil back to tank 1 to 10 times normal pump flow, maybe more. Can easily blow the return filter or hose.
Nothing fancy required. I'd fill the pump inlet if you can. If not, crank it over for a bit then start it up and stay at low idle.. Purge the air, cycle the cylinder a lot in mid stroke, longer stroke each time. Then light loads, then go to high idle and go to work.

So I'd get whatever engine works out best for packaging and budget, and mount the pump where necessary. Just not inside the tank..... Those old Williams systems really sucked. And some small industrial power units with vertical electric motors and pumps in tank...... ick for service.

kcj
 
Thanks Kevin.

So I need to find a vented cap with 1" NPTF threads... Anyone seen one online somewhere? The ones they have at northern look to be NPTM threads and I have a male pipe nipple welded into the tank. Looks like I'd have to cut that out and weld in something different to use their caps.

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I extended the cylinder today and pre-filled it. I filled the spin on filter too. Don't know if that was a good thing or not, but I figured I'd get as much air out of the system as possible. Took about 2 gallons of fluid between the two. Now when I go to fill the tank, I have to remember to allow enough head room for the fluid that will go there when I retract the cylinder.

Going to have a look at that 20hp horizontal this week.
Ian
 
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Thanks Kevin.

So I need to find a vented cap with 1" NPTF threads... Anyone seen one online somewhere? The ones they have at northern look to be NPTM threads and I have a male pipe nipple welded into the tank. Looks like I'd have to cut that out and weld in something different to use their caps.


Just use 1 street 90° and one regular 90° turned up.Might look a little hoakey. but it is a fix.
 
Not sure what you mean by NPTM (male?) NPTF is actually a thread form, (National Pipe Tapered, Fuel) the F doesn't mean female. BUt it is what most people know as ordinary 'pipe thread'.

aeroquip/Eaton has a great booklet on ports and threads of most countries. Unfortunately the website link for the pdf version does not work now. I emailed my distributor last week checking, but no answers yet.

edit 06/16: this seems to work now

http://hydraulics.eaton.com/products/pdfs/fc/e-srov-ts009-e.pdf


Ordinary pipe thread 1 inch coupling or union. The EL90's stacked may look hokey, but would do a good job of controlling splashing up the pipe.

k
 
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LOL... yep, I thought that was national pipe thread, male and female... :confused:

I was bored... (yes, there's underwear in the hamper waiting to be folded) so I drilled the cap with a #40 bit, started low and angled up toward the top, so that any water would not run into the "vent". Probably not enough of a vent...

Ian

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Solution... cut the nipple down so that a union will screw on flush with the tank and then screw the male vent cap into the union.

Ian
 
I must be missing something. There is already a 1" male nipple. If it points up, all that is needed is a vent cap that will be female. Mine is a 1" and looks like a mushroom with screen underneath the 'hood'. If the nipple points 'out', one street 90 and a vent cap does the job. Of course if all you can find is a 3/4" vent cap then you need to add a reducer somewhere.

Harry K
 
Nope, you're not missing anything... I have a 1" nipple in the tank, but all the vent caps I've seen to date are male instead of female, unless that photo in post 63 shows a cap with a nipple threaded into it. Finding a 1" NPT female vent cap would be ideal.

Ian
 
I don't understand the 'cut nipple down flush with the tank'
Male NPT nipple sticking out of tank?
Then just add a 1 inch coupling or el90, which is female/female.
Then either a. 1 inch male npt breather, or
b. reducer bushing 1 x 3/4, to female 3/4 NPT
+ 3/4 male npt breather

why cutting anything?
and you want the breather up higher than the tank top, as high as possible.
 
I'm probably just not explaining myself very well. I'll post some pics when I do it. I just want a clean install and not something that looks like I patched it together with whatever fittings I found in the bottom of the junk drawer.

Ian
 
I'm probably just not explaining myself very well. I'll post some pics when I do it. I just want a clean install and not something that looks like I patched it together with whatever fittings I found in the bottom of the junk drawer.

Ian

Sounds like something that I would do, LOL. I have a bunch of fittings in my junk drawer if you need some.:)
 
Ian

I just came across a pull type splitter with a bad engine.The folks are buying windows for a new house.(One that they won't be heating with wood.) I am going to try to swing some sort of deal with them in order to get hold of the splitter in trade of part of the deal.
I wish I would have came across it sooner. All it needs is a new engine.. Or a large engine and a 28 gpm pump and you would have been splitting wood already. It is the design you prefer.Mounted wedge with flat pusher. Worse thing is.I do not need it, and it will take up more shed space than that old 3pt. LOL
 
Sounds like you've got a project...

The longer it takes me to find an engine for mine, the more likely a log lift will find it's way into the design.. :dizzy: I was doodling at work today when I should have been working.

Ian
 
Well... there would have to be some adaptation.. I'd like to see it up close to see exactly how it works.

Ian
 
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