New help might have to go

[custom8726]

i'd rather not have that kind of stress, to be dead honest with you.

i'd rather make as much money as i possibly can for the guy i am working for, that way i too can get "mine". might sound odd but i'd rather work for someone else and let them reap what i sow.

i do my own thing on a saturday here and there though.

I spent 8 years doing exactly that, Making other people money. To be honest with you I some times wonder if I was better off as a employee VS A buisness owner. I worked for a few different tree companies over 8 years while going to college at night for 5 of those 8 years. Every company I ever worked for has called me back after I left. I am still friends with a couple of them and help them out when they are in a bind and vice VS. Alot of people think the buisness owners are raking in the big bucks off there labor but in reality the only way to make money is to hustle every day 7 days a week being a buisness owner and even then you have to be as creative and deverse as possible to get ahead. When you are a employee you get to turn off the tree aspect of your life at the end of the day. I always took pride in my work regardless if it was for me or an employer. If you do not take pride in your work you will never be succesfull at it. I also made very good money working as a climber/ operator/ groundsman/ mechanic/ ETC, ETC... and then doing some side work on the weekends. I had almost zero stress and no equipment payments whats so ever. Now I still have all those things to do plus estimates, constant maintenance to keep the fleet going day in and day out the stress of keeping employees and customers happy, equipment payments, insurance payments, ETC... ETC.. If it was not for long term goals for myself I would have just kept working for some one else and let them deal with the stress. So my point is if you have an employer that treats you well and you share a mutual respect for one another and you can make a comfortable living with some sort of retirement in place you might be better off staying right there.

 

[tree MDS]

Custom, I hear ya, but I have to admit its getting easier now its year 12 on my own, the dramas seem to have lost thier shock, its just like "oh, that F'N piece of crap broke down again, what else is new", lol, that loser did'nt show again, go figure, lol. Allthough that one's still pissin me off. Also I'm much more comforatable with all the payments and all the checks that I write, Its like a natural evolution it seems, maybe I'm just supposed to be where I'm at after all the years and hard work. Last year though was a different story however, I got pretty beaten up buying a used bucket that was'nt quite as "remanufactured" as was told, and then the leasing company losing my title-4 months and a week I couldnt register that truck, got it sept 1st, registered it jan 7th, yeah, ask me then about workin fer yerself and I would probably have to aggree wit oldirty-hey I finally got a bucket, its jan 7th, , lol, maybe thats why I'm not stressin too much now.

 

[oldirty]

But ask some people that, and you'll be out the door on the street pretty fast. It's the old conflict, capital vs. labor. Guess who wins every time?:bang:

i do believe this was the answer i was looking for. you right it wouldnt make sense that you put your ass on the line with all the start up and then pay your help more than you pay yourself. thats not why your in business. lol


and thank you very much for the other replies fellas. i am not really sure why i derailed this thread in such a manner but i saw an opportunity to ask a couple questions i needed an answer to. i guess i am at the age where i need to start thinking more about certain things. i like this work far too much and have put in far too much of an effort to think about anything else.

i'm not saying i want to make 100k off of you a year but i do want to know where a ceiling might start to come into play. ya know?


again thanks.

 

[oldirty]

So my point is if you have an employer that treats you well and you share a mutual respect for one another and you can make a comfortable living with some sort of retirement in place you might be better off staying right there.

this is exactly what i am looking for. no more no less.


thanks custom.

 

[tree MDS]

I'm sure you guys have noticed this, but its just funny: I can allmost tell what a guys about by the vehicle he rolls up to the interview in. Like these two with the 1990 buick lesabre with the leaking gas tank and exhaust' all smashed up in the front, lol, yeah pretty easy to tell what you've been doing with yer time at 25-not so much with the workie, workie, lol. I call it thier "chick magnet" and say the only problem is all it attracts is fat chicks on state, lol. Another guy rolled up in a yellow hummer, I said "wow, what are you like the worlds richest groundman"? he says his father died and he "ran into some money"-but that hes gotta get rid of it because it gets bad milage :monkey: yeah, real mature, yer dad dies and you get a bright yellow hummer with his life savings

 

[tree MDS]

Update on the help

Allright, now I'm pi$$ed off so bad that I can feel the adrenalin coursing through my viens- of course most of you will robably find this funny, as would I if it were not me. I get up nice and early after a good nights sleep for once, the er..help shows up at 7:00, thats good, we're at the shop I say we're taking the bucket truck, dump and chipper, back the dump up to the overhead and load the tools, I'm gonna check my e-mail, so I fire up the computer and go take a leak. Simple enough right- not so much. So I hear the dump start, drive over towards the overhead door, then (Oh I know yer waiting) HO, HO, KABANG!! the one moron is watcking the drivers side while backing him up instead of the passsengers side where my trailer is, where the driver cant see, so he not only hits the trailer but smears it down my door for 28" or so, right under my lettering. So I get zipped up pretty quick and go out and start to do my bumper to bumper ins., sure enough the doors stove in pretty good like 4" or so. Well excuse me (reminder to read my threadstarter) but I'm like "thats it! yer both fired, get!" They're lingering around, listening to me #####, the one pops out the dent some, admittedly it looks better, but I'm like "get away from my truck!" So I calm down some as I realize they are just retarded, but suddenly I really dont feel like taking them 45 min away and working a 2K day as the adrenalin has got me shaky feeling and really dont feel like climbing now. So I just said "just go home, this is'nt the way I wanted to start my day, I'll call you later and let you know", about the firing that is. Do you blame me? Oh, and the kid got another continuance instead of being "all done after this week". Nice right.

 

[Blakesmaster]

That sucks, man. I know mistakes happen, but it sounds to me like 15 an hour is way too much for these bozos.

 

[tree MDS]

That sucks, man. I know mistakes happen, but it sounds to me like 15 an hour is way too much for these bozos.

Word. I'm working on my help wanted add as we speak, lol. So far I think I'm going with this: Treeworker: Buisiness Name (to ward off all the losers I allready fired) hiring groundman/driver, CDL preffered but not required. Exp in private treework preffered Truely qualified only need apply ### ### #### (my cell so I dont have my machine full of mexicans tryin to speaky) What do you think?

 

[mckeetree]

I spent 8 years doing exactly that, Making other people money. To be honest with you I some times wonder if I was better off as a employee VS A buisness owner. I worked for a few different tree companies over 8 years while going to college at night for 5 of those 8 years. Every company I ever worked for has called me back after I left. I am still friends with a couple of them and help them out when they are in a bind and vice VS. Alot of people think the buisness owners are raking in the big bucks off there labor but in reality the only way to make money is to hustle every day 7 days a week being a buisness owner and even then you have to be as creative and deverse as possible to get ahead. When you are a employee you get to turn off the tree aspect of your life at the end of the day. I always took pride in my work regardless if it was for me or an employer. If you do not take pride in your work you will never be succesfull at it. I also made very good money working as a climber/ operator/ groundsman/ mechanic/ ETC, ETC... and then doing some side work on the weekends. I had almost zero stress and no equipment payments whats so ever. Now I still have all those things to do plus estimates, constant maintenance to keep the fleet going day in and day out the stress of keeping employees and customers happy, equipment payments, insurance payments, ETC... ETC.. If it was not for long term goals for myself I would have just kept working for some one else and let them deal with the stress. So my point is if you have an employer that treats you well and you share a mutual respect for one another and you can make a comfortable living with some sort of retirement in place you might be better off staying right there.

I would say 60% of the people in the tree business would be better off working for someone else. I know guys that are stressed out and tired down that have been "in business" if you will for 20+ years and they are still broke and living in a trailer house. I mean, dang, what are they trying to prove.

 

[tree MDS]

I would say 60% of the people in the tree business would be better off working for someone else. I know guys that are stressed out and tired down that have been "in business" if you will for 20+ years and they are still broke and living in a trailer house. I mean, dang, what are they trying to prove.

Yeah, its like custom said you have to work yer a$$ off every day in order to get ahead, otherwise its just not worth it and you'll just spin yer wheels. I put that add in because I cant take them two anymore, we'll see. Oh, one important thing I forgot to mention about the one that screwed me over last year: one of my good friends that is a landscaper and gets me work, (knew this kid from seeing him with me) was at a convience mart and this kid was in a car with a bunch of his buddys, my friend goes in to buy a lotto ticket and realizes he left his wallet in his truck console. Well he comes out and sees them pulling away, bangs on the window and asks the kid if anyone took his wallet, they of course all deny it. My buddy lets him off easy because he thought he still worked for me. But I cant really prove this and of course the kid denyed it to me as well. Needless to say I cant bring him to any of those jobs -allthough my buddy, huge redneck with pistol permit and occaisionally bad temper wants to have a little talk with him, lol. Seriously though, that kid allready addmited to me that he had been a heroin junky, but says hes clean now, again the only reason I took him back is because of despiration. Sounds like I just gotta start fresh. Damn what a PITA. well thanks fer lettin me vent.

 

[custom8726]

I would say 60% of the people in the tree business would be better off working for someone else. I know guys that are stressed out and tired down that have been "in business" if you will for 20+ years and they are still broke and living in a trailer house. I mean, dang, what are they trying to prove.

For some people that is all they want, enough money to get by. There work an determination shows there true character. I personally enjoy nice things and work my a$$ off to have those luxuries others with less determination will never have.

 

[tree MDS]

For some people that is all they want, enough money to get by. There work an determination shows there true character. I personally enjoy nice things and work my a$$ off to have those luxuries others with less determination will never have.

Could'nt agree more, if you look back you'll see me ranking on thier car, case and point. When I was thier age I allready had my truck and chipper, freshly painted, matching, with new tires and all. I also had a 68 GMC 3/4 ton 4 wheel with 8' fleetside, mostly restored, a 67 firebird restored, and a tree service - and I started with hard work, no rich parents here. Just look at thier car I say, lol. I cant imagine telling my mother that I lost my job because I could'nt show up to work. She would be heartbroken to know her son is a loser. Of course they probably just blame it on something else anyway.

 

[squad143]

TreeMDS,

You are wise to get rid of those losers. What happens if it is your life that they f-up next?

What do you pay a good worker???? I look at it, from how much I can make if he is there vs. how much if he isn't. My helper is a lot like old dirty (posted to be like). Because he is so valuable, I pay him well. Since it is only me and him, I would not attempt to do most of the jobs that I get. Without him, it's smaller jobs and my wife helping by untying knots at the bottom.

I can't stand idiots, but feel the pain of those that are stuck working with them.

 

[tree MDS]

Squad, I hear ya on the what if its my life part. Its an old truck, but still in nice shape and I had just taken that door off and blast and recaulked it/painted the bottom when I did some welding on the cab, new gas tanks and painted everything, took me a long time as I'm not pro-but not bad either. I guess my point is it doesnt matter its still stupid. We were'nt here 4 miniutes, I mean come on!! Besides I love that truck, we've been through hell and moved forests together. Last year after dumping the truck probably 100 times, he decides to take both chains all the way off the tailgate all the sudden, tells me ok, let er rip-you know the rest-bent frame, new hitch, bent tailgate. I pay 15 an hour for these retards fyi, maybe I'd pay more if they were worth it. We'll see what the add drudges up. BTW, yeah, maybe oldirty's just postin a mean game, lol.

 

[treemandan]

My point exactly, which I tried to make earlier is that want you attract is what you attract with wages. You don't want a loser, you want a PRO. Actaully you might be looking for losers so you don't have to pay them much but I don't know.
If you are saying the funds are not there to accomadate good help well that's not working, is it? I know you have 12 years of stories just like this, some worse.
If you are saying 15 per is right for a high level operator( which is a ground guy) then step off, its not.
If you are saying for 12 years you went around chasing after the idiots you hire( cause well, you do what you can/have to) I don't think I should say anymore.
I honestly don't know what some of these guys who come out here to do ground work are thinking, even if you don't run them ragged and hook em up.
I would have a stroke if I saw 2 guys who I pay do that to my truck. Its called not paying attention. You need some one to pay attention indeed. It can't always be you, can it?
If I were to hire myself out as a groundie I would probably want more than I get for climber, I would bring my Dingo and my ins. card. Even if I left it I would still want some money. What is it worth to know your groundie is not going to ask you " how many wraps should I take?" I find that to be one of the most annoying questions a man could ask. Chances are I would be worth the 300 to 600 per day and those other guys? Well you can just leave them.
FREELANCE GROUNDIE! Yeah, that is what I am going to do when I retire. Ain't nobody going to hire me though as the two losers they got get-r-done, somehow.
Good luck, I about flipped today to. Man, when you hire someone now you do the work of twoo.

 

[tree MDS]

Dan as usual I dont quite know what to make of you. Regardless, what do you actually think an appropriate wage per hour for a starting groudy with no real tree skills that can drive standard is ?? 400- 600 a day??? I mean whats yer friggin point, er... bud?

 

[treemandan]

Dan as usual I dont quite know what to make of you. Regardless, what do you actually think an appropriate wage per hour for a starting groudy with no real tree skills that can drive standard is ?? 400- 600 a day??? I mean whats yer friggin point, er... bud?

Ask yourself if a starting groundie is actually going to do you any good. Sure 15 to start an uneducated guy. You want to teach him? Go ahead. What happened to the first guy 12 years ago?
I am not singeling you out there dear tree brother, its the way it is all over. Everybody who operates like we do has this problem of finding mediorce help, which may or not work out. I don't know how many people the job would attract, actually I do, not very many.
" I need someone like me", I am sure your lips have uttered those words a time or to. Well ask yourself how much incentive you need to show up.
I know I need a good amount of incentive to show up, number 1 and number 2 is I have never said" I need someone like me". What would I do with a nut like me?
Catching on yet? I didn't make the rules on this but does it make sense? I mean come-on, What do you think that guy looking for ground work in Atlanta wants? 15? I wouldn't insult him.

 

[custom8726]

Ask yourself if a starting groundie is actually going to do you any good. Sure 15 to start an uneducated guy. You want to teach him? Go ahead. What happened to the first guy 12 years ago?
I am not singeling you out there dear tree brother, its the way it is all over. Everybody who operates like we do has this problem of finding mediorce help, which may or not work out. I don't know how many people the job would attract, actually I do, not very many.
" I need someone like me", I am sure your lips have uttered those words a time or to. Well ask yourself how much incentive you need to show up.
I know I need a good amount of incentive to show up, number 1 and number 2 is I have never said" I need someone like me". What would I do with a nut like me?
Catching on yet? I didn't make the rules on this but does it make sense? I mean come-on, What do you think that guy looking for ground work in Atlanta wants? 15? I wouldn't insult him.

$15 dollers an hour would be an insult for a begining groundsman??? Is that what you are trying to say?? Thats obsurd!! Where else can an individual go and make 15 dollers an hour for un-skilled labor, Yes un-skilled because they have yet to put there time in to learn the trade. I do not think the wages are that much different from PA to N.Y. and in N.Y. $15 an hour to start out on a tree crew is good money. You have a unique perception on things, saying a groundsman should make as much if not more then a climber What do you think an individual should make starting out??? I am curious, Not you because we all no we could not afford you but just the random guy responding to the help wanted ad looking to learn a trade, how much is he worth??

 

[tree MDS]

$15 dollers an hour would be an insult for a begining groundsman??? Is that what you are trying to say?? Thats obsurd!! Where else can an individual go and make 15 dollers an hour for un-skilled labor, Yes un-skilled because they have yet to put there time in to learn the trade. I do not think the wages are that much different from PA to N.Y. and in N.Y. $15 an hour to start out on a tree crew is good money. You have a unique perception on things, saying a groundsman should make as much if not more then a climber What do you think an individual should make starting out??? I am curious, Not you because we all no we could not afford you but just the random guy responding to the help wanted ad looking to learn a trade, how much is he worth??

Dude, you are my hero!! Thank you. MDS.

 

[treemandan]

$15 dollers an hour would be an insult for a begining groundsman??? Is that what you are trying to say?? Thats obsurd!! Where else can an individual go and make 15 dollers an hour for un-skilled labor, Yes un-skilled because they have yet to put there time in to learn the trade. I do not think the wages are that much different from PA to N.Y. and in N.Y. $15 an hour to start out on a tree crew is good money. You have a unique perception on things, saying a groundsman should make as much if not more then a climber What do you think an individual should make starting out??? I am curious, Not you because we all no we could not afford you but just the random guy responding to the help wanted ad looking to learn a trade, how much is he worth??

Yo, Yo ,Yo take your panties out of your ears there sparky. Where did I say that 15 was NOT good for a starter? Oh that's right ! I didn't.
Look, I am trying to help you but screw it if you aren't even going to read what I said properly.
Thing is , that is why there are so many of us who went from low paid grunt to highest paid climber to small business owner. Where have all the good guys gone? Out on there own. Why? Make more money. Its the cycle, some call it vicious.
For me, the ground work is the hardest and it didn't use to be that way. All in all, you don't want a good ground guy, he will take your job one day.