New Kubota Engine For Sp4012 Carlton?

[stump-dude]

Has Anyone Heard Or Preferably Had Any Experience With The New 33hp Kubota Diesel Engine Option On The Carlton 4012? Heard It Might Be A Bit Top Heavy? Prone To Tipping? Also IS THERE Anyone That Has A 4012 With 4x4 Option?

Dynamic Stump Grinding Inc.

 

[Bigstumps]

They demoed one to me a couple of weeks ago - awesome!!! It comes with the dual wheels, really no more top heavy than my current Rayco, cuts 3 to 1 over my Rayco gas. The 4WD seemed to work fine. I'm just getting everything arranged to make the purchase - should have it in my barn within two weeks.

That Kubota engine was very strong and smooth. Carlton has only been building them for a few months but the demo model the factory brought down, which was the 1st they had built last spring, had over 500 hours on it and worked great.

 

[stump-dude]

that is great news, im in vancouver, canada and they dont have one to demo, but i have the sp2000-4 with the 20hp kohler engine and love how over engineered it is, its a 93' model and its going strong as the day it was purchased. it has paid for itself more times than i care to mention. in saying that... i placed my order for one 3 days ago, but its going to take 4 weeks to get... something about their paint booth being down? anyway, thanks for the great info really helps out.

DYNAMIC STUMP GRINDING INC.
VANCOUVER, BC, CANADA

 

[Forreststump]

I am demoing the 4012 w/ the Kubota next week. I live outside of Detroit and the closest dealer to me is 4 1/2 hours away. Big Stumps, how was the visibility? Did you like the Sanvik Dura Disk? I sold my RG50 last summer after I crushed both of my feet at a housefire (i am a fireman) and could not keep up with the payments from my wheelchair. I am back in service now though. My wife says no more trailers and the 4012 will go into the back of my 1 ton. I have never ran a Carlton before and am looking forward to it.

 

[Bigstumps]

Like all the small machines you can't see what you are doing. You more or less cut by "feel" and sound. I've cut so many over the years I don't even notice how hard it is to see.

Carlton does offer the remote on this machine. I haven't seen one equipped with it but I have seen it on their larger track unit and it was pretty nice!!

My salesman is bringing my machine this week!!! Already sold the Rayco so I have backlog of some backyard stumps to put her to the test.

 

[Forreststump]

Bigstumps, let us know how the machine works out for you. With my RG50 I had great visibility as I was basically right on top of the stump. You still cut by feel, but it was nice to ba able to see anyhow. I am looking forward to getting back into it. I am buying SOMETHING, probably the Carlton, the first week of April. Heading to Florida for three weeks in a couple of weeks, so no need until then. Everything here is still covered in ice so no worries. Again, I would love to hear a report on this from an actual user and not a salesman.
regards,
kirk

 

[Bigstumps]

Got it delivered today!! Hate to hear about your weather, it was sunny and 70s here - spring is going to come fast now. Hopefully work will pick up with everyone getting outside.

Cut about 15 stumps. So far so good. The whole machine is very nice, much nicer than the Rayco it replaced (of course the Rayco was paid for many times over.) It has hydraulic steering and really moves at a good pace. On and off the trailer it is noticeably faster.

The engine runs really well. No smoking and pretty quiet. I have a Deutz on my bigger machine ( I know the Deutz is much larger but) and the Kubota is much smoother, seems to purr. Really runs as smooth as the little Kohler it replaced.

Now for the good part. I have been spoiled over the years with a my big machine and have always dreaded using the portables. The problem is inaccessible (??) stumps are becoming a bigger part of my business. This machine seems to be almost twice as fast grinding as the 27 Kohler.

The increase in grinding speed and way faster travel are going to make me much quicker overall.

1st day, 1st impression - very happy. Time will tell.

 

[Forreststump]

I am glad to hear you like it. I recieved information on the Bandit's today. Their factory is about 21/2 hours from here. They make their 2100 with a 35 hp Cat Diesel that is supposed to have 70-something lbs of torque, but I am still leaning towards the Carlton. The Bandit is pricey (23k and change) and no Sandvik wheel.

I am happy that you are liking your new machine. Keep us posted as you get some more use out of it. I am going to have to make a decision here soon and like I said, I am leaning towards the Carlton. After using the RG50, I too am afraid of getting something smaller, however this seems like a good all around compromise. between size and price. For me to make money, it is all about volume as I only do stumps, no trees. I can't be sitting in front of a 40 inch stump for an hour and a half and expect to come out too far ahead.

Like I said, I am glad that you like it and look forward to hearing more "news from the field."

 

[stumper63]

Got a picture of the Bandit 2100 w/ the CAT engine from a Wespur rep. radiator looks pretty huge. Would be interested to know if you, forrestump, are able to go to the factory and see one for yourself. Price they quoted me was 23,700 for the CAT 34hp, plus 3,100 more for 4x4. Add shipping and you're up to nearly 28K for a grinder! Better be productive.....
I'm not sure what type of wheel and teeth come with the bandit. I'm supposed to look at one they have available near here ,2wd,w/ the 35hp Vanguard engine this week. We'll see.

Thanks for the input on the Carlton, keep us posted with the findings, seems like the best deal for the money so far.

 

[SWAMPY036]

If I were to have only 1 stump grinder would this machine do it all with the kubota motor. Looking into getting a grinder and think it would be better to have one that could get those hard to reach stumps but I also want to go after the big ones to will the 4012 do it

 

[Forreststump]

Stumpy63,
I have not been to the factory however I just recieved the literature from Bandit in the mail. According to the factory rep, they only make the 2100 Cat w/ a remote because you can not see the stump at all. The Carlton you can get either w/ or without the remote, however, most guys say that you learn to grind by feel.

I have not been to the factory, however the rep is supposed to be in my area next week and said he would call me and bring one by to check out.
I will keep you posted.

I believe Bandit uses teeth either manufactured by/for their machines. They are pocket teeth and are priced at 4.50ea for the pins (teeth) and 12.50ea for the pockets.

I am still leaning towards the Carlton w/ the Kubota. It has 6 ft/lbs less torque (66 vs 72 for the bandit), but it also has the Sandvik cutter wheel and is less expensive.

The tongue extention is standard with the Carlton if you don't get 4wd, (790.00 to add to the Bandit) so if you do not get 4wd, it will help you get un-stuck should you manage to do so.

I also downloaded the maintenance manual from Carltons website www.stumpcutters.biz and it looks like it is easy to do all the routine, and non-routine maintenance (ie. adjust belts, replace bearings, etc.)

Swampy 063 A machine that size will do just fine. It seems to be a good compromise between price, "grindability", and accessablity, especially if you are not grinding huge stumps day in and day out otherwise, I would go bigger. It will have no trouble doing the larger stumps, it just takes a bit longer than if you have a larger machine, mostly because you have to move the chips more often.

 

[Bigstumps]

A quick report after grinding all day yesterday. We have really got some nice spring weather going so it was a great day to grind.

After a full day I can quickly sum it up by saying I am more impressed with the machine than I could have hoped for.

Sandvik wheel is amazing! Does not throw chips or make near the mess. I don't do clean up but it still makes for a much better job. I also believe the chance for busting windows will be reduced. The wheel also gives me a very smooth cut.

Don't know if the cutting power comes from the engine or the wheel, and I don't care, but I am cutting very fast for a small machine.

Engine runs smooth and quiet. Not much vibration and the radiator seems to stay put.

The self propelled part works good. The machine is very fast from stump to stump. Haven't had to test the 4wd but it seems to work. I have played with the blade and I have plenty of pushing power.

I think on most jobs I may be overall as fast with this machine as I am with my big tow behind when I consider set up and moving between stumps. Of course on the 4 footers nothing beats a big tow behind.

I'm still like a kid with a new toy. I'll report back after I get more work time on it.

 

[Forreststump]

I am glad to hear it bigstumps! Keep us informed. What sort of time does it take to grind an average, properly flushed, 30" stump? I am looking forward to my demo.
regars,
kirk

 

[stumper63]

Got to demo a Bandit 2100 2wd with the Vanguard 35HP engine today. Way faster cutting than my 252! That's with the cheap teeth/pockets that come from Bandit factory. Don't know why they don't do more for the teeth. They cut pretty well, but both stumps (24 & 30") were fairly soft plum stumps.
The hydraulic steering was nice, just be careful not to run over your feet! Ground speed is really fast too, almost have to break a stride in high mode and fast engine speed. Articulating steering axle seems nice, though not sure how much advantage it brings. Anyone know? Controls were smooth, responsive, though the forward/reverse controls are backwards from Vermeer's. Took a little getting used to. Seems very solidly built. Bearings big and wide. Engine purred right along, smooth. Machine vibration was low too. Overall, nice grinder. Here's the things I thought could be improved.

1. Guard coming out above cutting wheel sticks about 1" too far forward. Won't clear the top of stump when you get down that far. Have to back machine up a hair to keep working way down. Seems funny they missed this one. Maybe you'd get used to it, but my little 252 doesn't make me do that.
2. Hydraulic levers a bit too close together, couldn't operate with gloves on. You know how at the end of each pass it's just a quick movement for both levers, can't do it unless gripping top of lever, levers not two fingers width apart, and no, I don't have sausage fingers. Looks like you could bend them all out a little.
3. They have these round guards protecting the hydraulic motors for each of the drive wheels. I'll try to attach pic's. Really get in way of chips moving underneath machine. Could also hang up on chip pile, but that wasn't much of a problem today. Maybe the extra protection for the drive motors are worth the tradeoff?
4. Engagement handle for cutter wheel has to be pushed forward to engage, pulled backwards for dis-engage. Seems backwards to me, if you had to stop the wheel in a hurry you have to reach way up towards the wheel and pull the handle back, instead of a quick, continuous movement forward. Also, seems like handle should be mounted closer to operator station. Puts you pretty close to wheel when engaging. BTW, the engagement worked great.
5. Throttle also backwards. You push to increase engine speed, pull back to idle, should be just the reverse. I'm comparing this to my Vermeer 252, but been plenty of times I was glad to shut her down without reaching out and having to pull back, just one forward motion to shut down.
6. Seemed a little low on torque when down in the dirt, but still much better than my 25hp Kohler. They offer the big CAT 34hp diesel w/ 72 ft/lbs torque, but it looks huge and heavy, also $7000 more than the Vanguard. The vanguard is rated somewhere around 55 I think.

All in all the rep was great, good machine. Would like to demo the 4012 like Bigstumps just got, just have to figure out where I've got to fly to see one. Closest dealer 5 hours away in southern Oregon, and doesn't carry the Kubota or 4x4.

If the pictures load the white machine is the one I demo'd and the blue one is the CAT diesel 4x4, picture from Bandit.

Anyone have any comments on how this machine compares to the Carlton 4012? What do you think of my observations for improvements to Bandit?

Thanks

 

[Forreststump]

Excellent review Stumper63. Bigstumps just got his Kubota powered 4012 and is quite happy with it. I was supposed to demo one this week, however Ice and snow kept the dealer home (closest is 4 1/2 hours away). Will have to do the demo next week. I will let you know what I find.
Regards,
Kirk

 

[stumper63]

Hey Kirk, Forreststumps:
Did you get to demo the 4012 diesel yet? What were your impressions? Is Carlton offering any discount on their machines now, or is it full list + shipping?

Hi Bigstumps:
Any further impressions now that you've had your 4012 for a few weeks?
Thanks,
Stumper63

 

[Bigstumps]

Been running it for two weeks now - pretty much have it down. Nothing negative to report yet.


Love the ground speed.

I don't clean up but I have been using the blade to push the majority of the stuff back in the holes. Problem with this is I do it as a favor but the customers then look at me like I ought to finish grade the place while I'm at it.

The Kubota is typical Kubota - great.

 

[Forreststump]

The dealer cancelled on me (twice now). He is 4 1/2 hours away though and I only have a day a week or so that I can meet up with him. I'm heading to Florida on Friday for 2 weeks and when I get back, I am going to drive to Illinois, demo the diesel and the 35 vanguard and bring one home.

regards
kirk

 

[stump-dude]

yehaw!

just recieved my stumper today(4012) with the kubota, sandvik and wireless remote, man what a beautiful machine, and the remote makes it a breeze! havnt ground any stumps yet but im officially in love! cant wait to get grinding!

 

[stumper63]

Stump-dude,

Let us know ASAP of first impressions. There's a few of us out here wondering if we should take the leap to the Kubota 4012. Did you get the
4x4 option?
I demo'ed a 35hp Vanguard 2wd 4012 w/ wireless remote and Sandvik wheel a couple days ago. Pretty impressive for a gas engine. Was my first experience w/ wireless. Way cool. Unit didn't bog down for depth of cut, ruggedly built. Did you get to compare the Vanguard against the Kubota before purchase?

Let us know if you think you're getting your money's worth with the wireless remote. A pretty big chunk of change, would love to hear if it improves overall performance, safety, comfort. I'm still sitting on the fence on that one. Any thoughts?

Stumper63