New to me (MS251c and MS180c): seeking the good to know

[thook]

I picked up the 180 (free) doing some carpentry repairs at a friend's house, and I just picked up the 251 yesterday for $75. The 251 has a bar, but no chain or clutch cover. The 180 doesn't run, yet, but the 251 starts right up and sounds great. I think the 180 has just been sitting hardly used for so long it needs an internal cleaning and fuel filter. The air filter has hardly seen any use
Anyway, I plan to keep and use these saws as (independent) minor tree/shrub service equipment. I've done some researching, but haven't seen any long term assessments much less real world performance review. Are these good saws to invest in over time? Ease of use and maintanence scale 1-10? Is that 251 strong enough for (personal) seasonal firewood cutting (up to 20" trees or so)? Any quirks or handicaps I should know about with either of these? Recommendations for improvement/s if any?
I've had a couple of DCS520i's for the past near three decades and it's all I've used for anything and everything. The current saw still runs great and has plenty of power, but it gets finicky on the air filter cleanliness and it's harder to find parts at reasonable prices. Oh, and really it's kinda heavy for multi hour use. IOW's, I'm hoping I now have two saws that will match the demands and also alleviate the minor quirks I've had/got with the Makita.
What do y'all think?
Thanks so much!!

 

[thook]

Just to be a little more specific......'cause I keep reading what I can find.....
Would this 251 be good for felling and bucking like my 520i has been? I realize the 520i has larger displacement by 7cc, but.....

 

[ericm979]

How good it would be for felling depends on the size of the trees.

Stihl recommends an 18" bar for these. Based on my 025, I'd agree.

 

[irhunter]

Just about all you need to know about the MS180 is in this excellent post:

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/stihl-ms180-upgrades.365661/
I suspect, if running well, the MS251 will be OK. It sounds like what you really need is an 026, MS260, or MS261.

Roy

 

[thook]

Well, like I said, up to around 20". Most trees I cut for firewood aren't that big, but some are. Otoh, the customer trees tend to be 18" and smaller
The bar this 251 came with is 18", and it has that little easy adjust sprocket on it. It's what I plan to use. The 520i I put a 20" bar on it in 2021. It's pulled the length just fine and, obviously, I can just reserve that saw for felling of the largest/20 + trees. But, since I don't have a chain or cover for the 251 yet, I'm just trying to get an idea of it's power from others' experience regardless of it's 45cc size.

 

[thook]

Just about all you need to know about the MS180 is in this excellent post:

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/stihl-ms180-upgrades.365661/
I suspect, if running well, the MS251 will be OK. It sounds like what you really need is an 026, MS260, or MS261.

Roy

re: really need........
Or a MS271. A close friend of mine has one and lent it to me several years ago while my 520 was down for rebuild. I liked it plenty! The chain tensioner was a little odd, but no real complaint. Anyway, he doesn't own land anymore, so he may break down and sell me his at some point. Don't exactly need it in the immediate, and I haven't even approached, but it's something I have considered.

 

[irhunter]

The bar this 251 came with is 18", and it has that little easy adjust sprocket on it. It's what I plan to use.

What pitch chain is on the 18" bar?

I don't have a chain or cover for the 251 yet, I'm just trying to get an idea of it's power from others' experience regardless of it's 45cc size.

I have quite a bit of time in on an early Husky 445 with an 18" .325" chain. That's darn similar to your 251: farmer-grade clamshell saw of 45cc. The Husky was fine fully-buried in hardwood. If you are running .325, I think the 251 will be fine, too.

But, the long and short of it is: buy the parts you need and run the 251, and tell us how she goes.

Roy

 

[thook]

I've looked over the bar real well that came with the 251. Looks to me it could stand replacing. Flat spots and waffled/uneven edges. Wondering if I can set this saw with a regular type chain adjustment system vs the little handle thing. The 180 has that, but I can live with it there. So, looked on ebay so far for a cover, bar, and chain. Any recommendation there?

 

[thook]

What pitch chain is on the 18" bar?

I have quite a bit of time in on an early Husky 445 with an 18" .325" chain. That's darn similar to your 251: farmer-grade clamshell saw of 45cc. The Husky was fine fully-buried in hardwood. If you are running .325, I think the 251 will be fine, too.

But, the long and short of it is: buy the parts you need and run the 251, and tell us how she goes.

Roy

Fair enough!! I was just prepared if I heard back from you guys that it was a flop of a saw that I could get my money back from this guy. He said he would if I decided I didn't like it. Pretty nice, huh?
Anyway, yeah....I'll just get what it needs, find a tree to go after, and report back. Might be a tick or three on the clock. I gotta save up some more. Tools!!! God help me....lol
Oh, and yes..... 0.325 pitch. However, the crank sprocket is really worn as is the bar like I said. The bar even has blueing on it. (probaby dull chaining it ) I dunno....maybe new crank sprocket, bar, and I could use a different pitch?? Should I even? Advice? Whatever's gonna maximize efficiency. Though, I will say now that I think about it, my friend's Farm Boss has relatively small cutters. I kinda prefer the fatter ones like my Makita runs, if that makes sense
Anyway, I'm gonna take some pics later tonight. I gotta go work on a motor. Thank you for all the replies, thus far!! Later

 

[irhunter]

I would start a new thread: Converting MS251 to normal chain tensioner

Or, something like that.

I like the .325 on my 45cc saw...going to 3/8 would be pretty demanding of the saw, IMO.

One could, I guess, go to 3/8LP if they wanted maximum efficiency...I like that pitch on 35cc saws.

I have heard, the laminated Stihl bars are said to be blue, from the factory, under the paint. The rails are hardened. And, I think that is true. The ES bars, with replaceable tip, are not that way.

Roy

 

[JRM]

The bar this 251 came with is 18", and it has that little easy adjust sprocket on it.

When you get tired of that quick tensioner throw it in the trash and buy a standard cover.
It's not if, but when

 

[SteveSr]

I've looked over the bar real well that came with the 251. Looks to me it could stand replacing. Flat spots and waffled/uneven edges. Wondering if I can set this saw with a regular type chain adjustment system vs the little handle thing. The 180 has that, but I can live with it there. So, looked on ebay so far for a cover, bar, and chain. Any recommendation there?

Put up pics of the bar damage. it may or may not be salvageable. Same for the sprocket. These can be short on oil which accelerates bar wear. Check the bar groove thickness with feeler gauges up to the depth of the drive links.

They come too lean at sea level and cutting with a dull chain helps push them over the edge. It is also fairly easy to overheat the clutch and melt the plastic housing. Pull the clutch drum and check the clutch bearing and crankshaft stub for galling. If you find any it is game over for the saw.

 

[irhunter]

One more thing to keep in mind as you think about buying a bar for the 251...that saw uses the homeowner bar mount, and any bar you buy for the 251 will not work with any larger saw you may end up with (e.g., the 271 you metioned).

 

[chuckles71]

Fair enough!! I was just prepared if I heard back from you guys that it was a flop of a saw that I could get my money back from this guy. He said he would if I decided I didn't like it. Pretty nice, huh?
Anyway, yeah....I'll just get what it needs, find a tree to go after, and report back. Might be a tick or three on the clock. I gotta save up some more. Tools!!! God help me....lol
Oh, and yes..... 0.325 pitch. However, the crank sprocket is really worn as is the bar like I said. The bar even has blueing on it. (probaby dull chaining it ) I dunno....maybe new crank sprocket, bar, and I could use a different pitch?? Should I even? Advice? Whatever's gonna maximize efficiency. Though, I will say now that I think about it, my friend's Farm Boss has relatively small cutters. I kinda prefer the fatter ones like my Makita runs, if that makes sense
Anyway, I'm gonna take some pics later tonight. I gotta go work on a motor. Thank you for all the replies, thus far!! Later

I got a new 251 about 5 years ago, and have done nothing to it except pour in gas and oil. Likely has 10 cords or more on it. Get the bar and sprockets worked out, and get about 3 new chains, and you should be set for quite a while.

 

[billyboy]

I run a DCS 520 with 18” lo pro 3/8 chain. Would think a 20” bar would make it pretty nose heavey. That is a pro saw right up there with the 026/260 in weight and power. The 520 has better air filtration. Adjustable oiler. I would try to fix it up, sell off the Stihls and look for a good top handle saw for what you are describing. My not worth 2 cents.

 

[KostasVolos]

Despite the fact that the Stihl MS180 (as also the MS251) being a
homeowner grade chainsaw ,I use this particular model as the main
chainsaw for making wildfire protection zones around private land ,houses and factories/industrial facilities .
Sure it is not a professional grade equipment ,but it is extremely easy to start ,very reliable ,has minimal gas consumption ,extremely easy ( and cheap enough ! ) to maintain and service and it is actually very well built .
With few mods ( Open up muffler and air intake ,adjustable WT-215 carb ,NGK spark plug ) it reaches close to 2.5 Hp power .
Enough to run a16" bar with 3/8"lp .050 semi chisel chain.
Have dropped 20" chinese chestnut trees ,oaks and olive trees with it . The MS180 is a lot more saw ,than most ( especially those who haven't even run one ) could imagine or think .

It's compact and lightweight nature makes it the ideal chainsaw for clearing thick and dense brush ,cut firewood for personal needs
( 3-4 cords per year ) and occasionally used to fell trees .

And if one eventually dies ,well no big deal .With just $250 I get a brand new one to harass .
There's no way ,that anyone could convince me to invest $$$$ to get pro-grade chainsaws.Had a MS362 and a MS462.
Too heavy and bulky to carry and work with.
Had a broken oil tank of the MS362 that cost me about $600 to repair .Sold those pro saws and got six MS180 to replace them.
Never looked back .

 

[irhunter]

Despite the fact that the Stihl MS180 (as also the MS251) being a
homeowner grade chainsaw

It's compact and lightweight nature makes it the ideal chainsaw for clearing thick and dense brush ,cut firewood for personal needs
( 3-4 cords per year ) and occasionally used to fell trees .

I agree that small saws running small-pitch chain can pull surprisingly well. I got a 021 as part of a package deal. I put a 16" 3/8LP chain on it, and ran a couple tanks of gas bucking yellow birch and beech. Fully buried...still pulled really well.

Roy

 

[KostasVolos]

I agree that small saws running small-pitch chain can pull surprisingly well. I got a 021 as part of a package deal. I put a 16" 3/8LP chain on it, and ran a couple tanks of gas bucking yellow birch and beech. Fully buried...still pulled really well.

Roy

Here in EU the MS170 and MS180 are sold with 3/8"lp narrow kerf (.43") bar and chain combos.
They demand less power from the saw and they really cut like hot knife through butter !
But ...
The cutters on the narrow kerf 3/8"lp .043 chain do not last as long as the cutters of an ordinary
3/8" lp ,while the price of the two is the same ( Stihl chains ) .
Further more the Stihl 3/8"lp .043 bars are rather easy to damage and/ or wear out pretty fast .
In this part of the world a 3/8" lp .05 16" Sugihara or Tsumura bar is cheaper than the same size Stihl bar .And far more robust also.
I only use this 0.43 narrow kerf combo for wooden construction jobs .For example ,when I was building a cabin on my property.

A standard 3/8" lp bar & chain combo is way far more robust and
lasts considerably longer than a narrow kerf 3/8" lp combo .
But it demands more power from the saw.

It's not the chainsaw that cuts wood ,but it's chain .
Any sharp chain -no matter it's size -will cut wood ,as long as the saw can pull it with ease .

Every two stroke engine is still a
machine with moving parts ,no matter if it is 30 cc or 130cc .
Pro grade chainsaws do not last longer than the home owner grade ,regarding engine life cycle.

What pro grade chainsaws do differently than home owner grade ones is that they have the ability and power to pull larger cutter sizes and longer chain lengths.
With all the advantages that come with ,like longer service life of chain ,bigger bar lengths and so on .
That's the main and major difference .I read a lot about "plastic home owner grade saws" vs the magnesium alloy pro ones .
Well ,my own experience is that the plastic housings are lighter and resist impact much better than the magnesium/aluminium pro grade ones.Plus they are cheaper to fix or replace .

If I was a pro logger ,then yes a pro grade saw would be the best option .Since I'm not one,
a pro grade saw will bring only trouble with it's expensive parts,accessories,service & maintenance and expendables .

But my job is mainly clearing dense brush and bush and occasionally felling small to medium -mainly softwood- trees and aside have to cut 3-4 cords of firewood *per year for heating our home ,
so there's no real need to use any bigger saw than the MS180.

*Mainly those hardwood species :
-Quercus coccifera (kermes oak)
-Quercus Ilex ( holy/holm oak )
-Arbutus unedo aka strawberry tree ( a closely related mediterranean
species to the US Arbutus menziesii aka madrone )
-Olea europaea ( olive tree )
-Prunus dulcis ( almond tree ) .

 

[sundance]

Here in EU the MS170 and MS180 are sold with 3/8"lp narrow kerf (.43") bar and chain combos.
They demand less power from the saw and they really cut like hot knife through butter !
But ...
The cutters on the narrow kerf 3/8"lp .043 chain do not last as long as the cutters of an ordinary
3/8" lp ,while the price of the two is the same ( Stihl chains ) .
Further more the Stihl 3/8"lp .043 bars are rather easy to damage and/ or wear out pretty fast .
In this part of the world a 3/8" lp .05 16" Sugihara or Tsumura bar is cheaper than the same size Stihl bar .And far more robust also.
I only use this 0.43 narrow kerf combo for wooden construction jobs .For example ,when I was building a cabin on my property.

A standard 3/8" lp bar & chain combo is way far more robust and
lasts considerably longer than a narrow kerf 3/8" lp combo .
But it demands more power from the saw.

It's not the chainsaw that cuts wood ,but it's chain .
Any sharp chain -no matter it's size -will cut wood ,as long as the saw can pull it with ease .

Every two stroke engine is still a
machine with moving parts ,no matter if it is 30 cc or 130cc .
Pro grade chainsaws do not last longer than the home owner grade ,regarding engine life cycle.

What pro grade chainsaws do differently than home owner grade ones is that they have the ability and power to pull larger cutter sizes and longer chain lengths.
With all the advantages that come with ,like longer service life of chain ,bigger bar lengths and so on .
That's the main and major difference .I read a lot about "plastic home owner grade saws" vs the magnesium alloy pro ones .
Well ,my own experience is that the plastic housings are lighter and resist impact much better than the magnesium/aluminium pro grade ones.Plus they are cheaper to fix or replace .

If I was a pro logger ,then yes a pro grade saw would be the best option .Since I'm not one,
a pro grade saw will bring only trouble with it's expensive parts,accessories,service & maintenance and expendables .

But my job is mainly clearing dense brush and bush and occasionally felling small to medium -mainly softwood- trees and aside have to cut 3-4 cords of firewood *per year for heating our home ,
so there's no real need to use any bigger saw than the MS180.

*Mainly those hardwood species :
-Quercus coccifera (kermes oak)
-Quercus Ilex ( holy/holm oak )
-Arbutus unedo aka strawberry tree ( a closely related mediterranean
species to the US Arbutus menziesii aka madrone )
-Olea europaea ( olive tree )
-Prunus dulcis ( almond tree ) .

Ever use any of the small Echo's? Curious how you think they compare to the MS180. I liked my CS-346 until it began to be difficult, using a CS-352 for a small saw now.

 

[KostasVolos]

Ever use any of the small Echo's? Curious how you think they compare to the MS180. I liked my CS-346 until it began to be difficult, using a CS-352 for a small saw now.

Yes,I have used couple of small Echo chainsaws.All I have to say is that they are really great saws .
Thing is that they have kinda limited OEM and aftermarket parts and accessories,in comparison with Stihl ( or Husqvarna ) small chainsaws,as also the Echo parts & accessories are not always available.
But truly if Stihl OEM & aftermarket parts and accessories products were not readily available where I live and work ,
then Echo would have been my choice for sure.Great saws,indeed.