Newbie to running older saws, question on mix ratio

[sean donato]

@Vintage Engine Repairs comparing a watercooled rc boat engine to a chain saw is essentially worthless. The run a lot cooler then a air called engine. Tuning them is dam hard thing to do with good results. And 16-18k rpm is a few hundred short of normal operating rpm. Anything sub 32cc should be well over 20k even the 32-35cc engines are capable of sustained 20k loaded rpm

 

[bwalker]

I find all my saws and weed trimmers run better on the syn gas.

I assume your talking about canned fuel. It's not synthetic. It contains the same components as regular gas, just from high quality streams. It's usually a alkylate/reformate blend.

 

[bwalker]

Way to expensive form my blood , non efuel @ 89 octane is sufficient with a quality FC or FD synthetic oil !

Yes, it's ridiculously priced for what it is.

 

[North by Northwest]

I just had to take the muffler off a FS-94 and try to get the crud out of it. Not the screen, it was long gone. The muffler itself. Exhaust has to come out the side or it would just burn a hole in the plastic, so you can't just drill a hole in it. I managed to drive a drift pin in far enough to swell the exhaust opening. Put the muffler back and held it wide open while this goop the consistency of asphalt tar came oozing out. Lucky. I have had to replace the muffler.

Somebody explain why I shouldn't think that guy is just using too much oil. For that application anyway.
Wasn't gasoline that did it.

Most likely wrong oil for the application and an overly rich tune as basic cause with efuel as a contributing factor !

 

[North by Northwest]

Yes, it's ridiculously priced for what it is.

Yeah , and you remember how ridiculous premium synthetic oils are up here , you would fall off your rocker if you saw the price for canned fuel mixs , absolutely ridiculas !

 

[ZeroJunk]

What your seeing is partially combusted or uncombusted oil and gas. That's a tuning issue pure and simple.

Or, too much oil.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Seriously. I get stuff in every day that says on the ticket will not start. First thing I do is dump the fuel. If it looks straight I put it in a little jar. If it looks like green paint or blue paint I just say oh **** .

Seems like some people either read the instructions wrong or think if this amount of oil is good twice as much would be better.

Use what the manufacturer says. What the hell.

 

[bwalker]

Or, too much oil.

Nope. A poorly tuned engine will do that at 50:1. Seen it many times.

 

[North by Northwest]

Seriously. I get stuff in every day that says on the ticket will not start. First thing I do is dump the fuel. If it looks straight I put it in a little jar. If it looks like green paint or blue paint I just say oh **** .

Seems like some people either read the instructions wrong or think if this amount of oil is good twice as much would be better.

Use what the manufacturer says. What the hell.

The oil manufacturer ? Perhaps , the saw manufacturer no thanks !

 

[ZeroJunk]

Nope. A poorly tuned engine will do that at 50:1. Seen it many times.

Whatever, I think you are mostly FOS myself.

 

[bwalker]

Whatever, I think you are mostly FOS myself.

Open you mind and you might learn something, dumb ass.

 

[ZeroJunk]

Open you mind and you might learn something, dumb ass.

I work on 20 pieces of equipment a day, give or take.
Very few pieces of equipment have the limiters disabled. In other words they come from the factory all the way rich against the limiter. And, that is no where close to "rich". It is too much oil in the mix.

So, as usual. You are FOS.

 

[bwalker]

I work on 20 pieces of equipment a day, give or take.
Very few pieces of equipment have the limiters disabled. In other words they come from the factory all the way rich against the limiter. And, that is no where close to "rich". It is too much oil in the mix.

So, as usual. You are FOS.

If the tuning is too rich for the load what you observed will happen regardless of ratio.
Once again you are ignorant of the basics of two cycle operation...

 

[ZeroJunk]

If the tuning is too rich for the load what you observed will happen regardless of ratio.
Once again you are ignorant of the basics of two cycle operation...

You are ignorant of too much oil in the gas.

It is not too rich. You can't make it too rich without removing the limiters. And, it 2 cycles just fine with the string hitting the cutter.

Once again you are ignorant of the real world.

And, I'm not talking about your 32 or 40 to one religion.

Not sure what they are doing, but some of it looks more like 10 to one by the color.

Something like if this is good three times as much would be better.

Probably got that from reading some forum.

 

[North by Northwest]

You are ignorant of too much oil in the gas.

It is not too rich. You can't make it too rich without removing the limiters. And, it 2 cycles just fine with the string hitting the cutter.

Once again you are ignorant of the real world.

And, I'm not talking about your 32 or 40 to one religion.

Not sure what they are doing, but some of it looks more like 10 to one by the color.

Something like if this is good three times as much would be better.

Probably got that from reading some forum.

Really pretty simple , 40:1 & 50:1 are the current popular ratio's . Quality oil such as Dominator or Red Armor etc. can run at those mix ratio's or heavier with no issues within a properly tuned saw , trimmer or blower . I have used Saber at 70:1 & 32:1 with no issue when i tune for that mix . The only time heavier than 40:1 is warranted is within Milling or Ported saw applications . I & Ben & numerous other members have tuned weekly & even daily for elevation , temperature & barometric conditions of all types . Within limitors , remove them & tune the engine appropriately f the epa . Within Bikes & Sleds tune or when required rejet to get the tune appropriate to the application & mix ratio (16/24/32:1) for the type of riding & conditions prevalent . Spoonge & carbon are mostly due to improper oil or fuel & tune ! Excessive oil can be achieved by unknowledgible operators . Comon sense can resolve such mistakes !

 

[ZeroJunk]

Really pretty simple , 40:1 & 50:1 are the current popular ratio's . Quality oil such as Dominator or Red Armor etc. can run at those mix ratio's or heavier with no issues within a properly tuned saw , trimmer or blower . I have used Saber at 70:1 & 32:1 with no issue when i tune for that mix . The only time heavier than 40:1 is warranted is within Milling or Ported saw applications . I & Ben & numerous other members have tuned weekly & even daily for elevation , temperature & barometric conditions of all types . Within limitors , remove them & tune the engine appropriately f the epa . Within Bikes & Sleds tune or when required rejet to get the tune appropriate to the application & mix ratio (16/24/32:1) for the type of riding & conditions prevalent . Spoonge & carbon are mostly due to improper oil or fuel & tune ! Excessive oil can be achieved by unknowledgible operators . Comon sense can resolve such mistakes !

I don't disagree with any of that. You might not believe some of the stuff I pour out of equipment fuel tanks including bar oil, diesel fuel, and some things I really can't tell what they are, old kerosene maybe not dyed. Who knows.

But, I have had two FS94's in particular maybe from the same outfit, don't know, where the muffler itself was stopped up. The last one I had to replace the muffler itself. No dirt daubers, just grunge . This one I got cleaned out well enough to use without spending money on a muffler. But, it will likely be back.
The fuel in it was dark green. I mean dark.

Idling too much likely culprit as well.

 

[bwalker]

You are ignorant of too much oil in the gas.

It is not too rich. You can't make it too rich without removing the limiters. And, it 2 cycles just fine with the string hitting the cutter.

Once again you are ignorant of the real world.

And, I'm not talking about your 32 or 40 to one religion.

Not sure what they are doing, but some of it looks more like 10 to one by the color.

Something like if this is good three times as much would be better.

Even at 16:1 and under decent load the exhaust won't do what you described.
Who knows what the idiots that send their stuff you are doing.

I don't disagree with any of that. You might not believe some of the stuff I pour out of equipment fuel tanks including bar oil, diesel fuel, and some things I really can't tell what they are, old kerosene maybe not dyed. Who knows.

But, I have had two FS94's in particular maybe from the same outfit, don't know, where the muffler itself was stopped up. The last one I had to replace the muffler itself. No dirt daubers, just grunge . This one I got cleaned out well enough to use without spending money on a muffler. But, it will likely be back.
The fuel in it was dark green. I mean dark.

Idling too much likely culprit as well.

I get the fact that your dealing with a bunch of morons. However, your conclusions in regards to oil ratios causing all the problems you see are off base.
With dirt bikes guys have the exact same issue and almost always blame it on oil ratio. That's just not the case. Some of the cleanest engines you will see are kart engines ran at 16:1.
All of my stuff ran at ratios from 20:1 on up have bone dry mufflers.

 

[North by Northwest]

I don't disagree with any of that. You might not believe some of the stuff I pour out of equipment fuel tanks including bar oil, diesel fuel, and some things I really can't tell what they are, old kerosene maybe not dyed. Who knows.

But, I have had two FS94's in particular maybe from the same outfit, don't know, where the muffler itself was stopped up. The last one I had to replace the muffler itself. No dirt daubers, just grunge . This one I got cleaned out well enough to use without spending money on a muffler. But, it will likely be back.
The fuel in it was dark green. I mean dark.

Idling too much likely culprit as well.

I have witnessed exactly what you have related within trimmers , quite often the mix was not the culprit . More over the basic cause was oil selection & efuel quality combined to produce plugged exhaust screens along with excessive spoonge within the exhaust ports . This within 50:1 & 40:1 mix ratio's . Certainly trimmers that quite often idle a lot & only see short bursts of extended high rpm & associated heat , contribute to a poor scenerio for a clean combustion & performance . Stihl Ultra which Ben & I attribute to this very scenerio , has been publically denounced as the worst manufacturer oil ever produced for saws , blowers or trimmers ! Anyhow you get the point brother , as you know oil has evolved to a highly task or application specific product e.g.: Air Cooled , Marine & liquid cooled small engine applications etc . In my opinion no one product excells in all applications for obvious reasons. Once you understand the limitations & benefits of various oil specifications & packages you are better prepared to utilize this recipes effectively within the tuning stage of your engines usage or application . P.S. You should ask Ben of recollection or experience with 2T fire pumps (Rotax Manufactured) via Valdor Quebec. Which were trashed due to improper oil usage & tuning to the application as you have personally described . Your frustration is not fallen on deaf ears , however the results often are a combination of improper or poor choices that have nothing to do with too much oil within the mix . Only 10:1 in a trimmer would be too much oil imho . P.S.S. you can't fix stupid brother , you can only try to enlighten your customers accordingly !

 

[North by Northwest]

Even at 16:1 and under decent load the exhaust won't do what you described.
Who knows what the idiots that send their stuff you are doing.

I get the fact that your dealing with a bunch of morons. However, your conclusions in regards to oil ratios causing all the problems you see are off base.
With dirt bikes guys have the exact same issue and almost always blame it on oil ratio. That's just not the case. Some of the cleanest engines you will see are kart engines ran at 16:1.
All of my stuff ran at ratios from 20:1 on up have bone dry mufflers.

100 % Ben well stated & concise !

 

[ZeroJunk]

Well, I blame it on oil because that is what I see. A tar like flow oozing out of the exhaust after being heated up at wide open throttle is not gasoline...

So, these guys are not clearing a pasture. They are trimming around tombstones , brick foundations, trees and shrubs that can be girdled and killed. Pointless to eat off your string trimming grass wide open. I doubt they are ever ran at wide open throttle for more than a few seconds here and there.

It is what it is I suppose.

Chainsaws, bikes, and carts play a different game.