No Load Question

[Kupreanof]

I tried searching (isn't that how new'B's are required to start all threads?) but can't for the life of me find the right foot hop blink synch rate to get to the heart of the matter.

Is it inherently bad to run a saw with the bar and chain off, Ie. no load?

I can't come up with a good reason for doing so aside from running fuel out for storage in a domestic setting perhaps. Curious nevertheless.

 

[Walt41]

No fuel=no lube, I have never run off any of my 2 stroke machines, I have good luck with a little Sta-bil in the fuel and try to stay away from ethanol...turns gaskets and such to Bubble Yum.

 

[Kupreanof]

Yes, but how many times during a day of wood cutting do you run your tank dry? If you're like me, quite a few. If it were all that bad I would buy something other than a 2-stroke chainsaw, as the hassle of guessing would give me (more) ulcers.

No ethanol in my neck of the woods. I've verified that with the local plant manager and regional distribution guys.

 

[alderman]

"No ethanol in my neck of the woods. I've verified that with the local plant manager and regional distribution guys."

We'll send you a yuppie governor who thinks he's living in California if you're feeling left out on the ethanol front.

I idle them dry when I know they won't be used for awhile. I have had trouble in the past leaving fuel in them for too long. Storing them dry works better for me.

 

[Walt41]

I don't run dry because I fill the gas when I fill bar oil, everytime. But that is just how I was taught.

 

[Justsaws]

Yes, but how many times during a day of wood cutting do you run your tank dry? If you're like me, quite a few. If it were all that bad I would buy something other than a 2-stroke chainsaw, as the hassle of guessing would give me (more) ulcers.

No ethanol in my neck of the woods. I've verified that with the local plant manager and regional distribution guys.

I would not recommend ever running a saw out of gas. I would certainly try very hard to never do it while the saw is under a load. Most times the saws run differently as the fuel tank runs dry. They start to speed up and will not idle down or hold an idle correctly and many will stall out easier. All these symptoms are caused by the saw not receiving the proper amount of fuel.

Running saws out of fuel while under load is one of the many things that are done to them regularly that can cause a premature internal failure. It does not have to but it could. On this forum we regularly see photos of P/Cs that have suffered long term heat and and lack of lube abuse. It is a very common situation that is easily avoidable but most are happy they own a saw that starts and few people put enough hours of run time on a saw engine for that type of damage to accumulate to an actual wear failure. Most will lock them up with bad maintenance, bad fuel quality, improper storage, or other more immediate severe damage.

 

[Kupreanof]

Not feeling left out, more like blessed.

Walt, I think you are referring to b/c oil correct? If so then we are very much in agreement. I was referring to running out the gas (though I admit to referring to it as fuel which gets some folks goat I guess though not mine despite working as a diesel mechanic/driver). I wasn't recommending nor defending it as advisable, but rather as the only possible reason that I could think of off the top of my head to run a saw without the bar and chain (hereafter to be referred to as the b/c).

 

[Kupreanof]

Justsaws,
From the time my main saw shows any sign of being out of gas to being out of gas and not running in my experience is like a second or three maybe, at the most, on a straight level cut. Are you really saying that instantly hitting the kill switch vs. waiting the second or two really significantly reduces the saws useful life?

Usually the saw bogs and wont cut or run without gas anyways so it's self limiting isn't it? If it has gas sufficient to run it's lubed, if it isn't getting gas and lube it isn't running? Am I mistaken in thinking that way?

 

[scottr]

I tried searching (isn't that how new'B's are required to start all threads?) but can't for the life of me find the right foot hop blink synch rate to get to the heart of the matter.

Is it inherently bad to run a saw with the bar and chain off, Ie. no load?

I can't come up with a good reason for doing so aside from running fuel out for storage in a domestic setting perhaps. Curious nevertheless.

I've heard of the clutch flying apart when reved without a bar and chain.

 

[Walt41]

Justsaws,
From the time my main saw shows any sign of being out of gas to being out of gas and not running in my experience is like a second or three maybe, at the most, on a straight level cut. Are you really saying that instantly hitting the kill switch vs. waiting the second or two really significantly reduces the saws useful life?

Usually the saw bogs and wont cut or run without gas anyways so it's self limiting isn't it? If it has gas sufficient to run it's lubed, if it isn't getting gas and lube it isn't running? Am I mistaken in thinking that way?

At the high rpm of a chainsaw, as it runs out of gas there is a few seconds of no lube, Noone will ever convince me that this is ok because I am set in my ways. I also service everything I own more than regularly because I can afford service but not replacement, I am also one of those fools who tightens things with a torque wrench. Not saying I am right or wrong but it works for me.

 

[Kupreanof]

Oh, I'm not debating with you. I don't have any idea, just speculating based upon my limited experience. I too am (well I won't say anal to a fault instead I will say) very thorough and methodical as well. I hate to use my uniflow powder measure and weigh every charge when reloading for firearms. I disassemble and clean and lube often with firearms, saws, vehicles, cameras, everything. Little tiny things bother me. When I sale a vehicle I spend forever explaining the state of everything down to myopic detail.

I just want to get my head around the principles of saw use and abuse so as to avoid the latter.

Although I do have to confess to tightening wheel seal nuts down by hand and not using the endplay/torque wrench techniques advertised by sealed power etc... (on belly dumps, Mack dump trucks, Advance Mixers, etc...) I always just crank it down to seat everything tight and then back it off and set it in lightly by hand. But the reason I do so is because of watching a sealed power video on bearing life as related to endplay. Life is at maximum right before endplay goes away. Their recommendation is to eliminate the possibility of putting it under tension by deliberately shooting for a small amount of endplay (I forget their figure). I just always figured I could shrink the amount of endplay and gain some life with a deft wrist. So far so good.

 

[roncoinc]

It has been recomended on this site by many that if a saw ,or any two stroke,is going to sit unused for a period of time with ethenol fuel in it the fuel should be run out..the most acceptable ways seems to be to dump the fuel,start the saw and let it run out at idle..now what a extended period of time of unuse is open to conjecture.. how long does it take the fuel to go bad or do not good stuff to the intake system ?
i sold a saw a couple of weeks ago to a motorcycle mechanic.. i was giving him my idea of how to store a saw..he told me of the work he has to do to two stroke bikes when this crappy gas sits in it to long..

 

[Kupreanof]

Stihl says 3 months.

Probably depends on how old/what kind the gas/oil is (any ethanol additives etc...) and what the humidity is.

 

[Walt41]

If you must remove all the fuel, I would say just dump out as much as possible and blow compressed air around to get rid of the rest. I always clean my saws and equipment up with compressed air(wear safety glasses) as a bonus you can hit the clutch (withb/c removed) and spin it to check for runout, as a double bonus you can catch the teeth and make that annoying siren sound. (yes I have too much free time)

 

[roncoinc]

If you must remove all the fuel, I would say just dump out as much as possible and blow compressed air around to get rid of the rest. I always clean my saws and equipment up with compressed air(wear safety glasses) as a bonus you can hit the clutch (withb/c removed) and spin it to check for runout, as a double bonus you can catch the teeth and make that annoying siren sound. (yes I have too much free time)

You HAVE to get the gas out of the carb and fuel lines..

 

[SilverBox]

I tried searching (isn't that how new'B's are required to start all threads?) but can't for the life of me find the right foot hop blink synch rate to get to the heart of the matter.

Is it inherently bad to run a saw with the bar and chain off, Ie. no load?

I can't come up with a good reason for doing so aside from running fuel out for storage in a domestic setting perhaps. Curious nevertheless.

It should be fine for lower rpms. The reason I've always heard that your not supposed to run your saw wide open with no load is that the high rpms will cook the crank bearing, usually on the chain side.

I've seen a saw that had an intake air leak that the guy used to run it wide open no load for 5-10 min to warm it up to get it to idle, the crank bearing chain side was quite wobbly (around .020-.040" of radial play).. Made me a believer in the don't run your saw wide open with no load or you'll cook the crank bearings theory.

 

[Andyshine77]

Letting a saw idle out of fuel Is fine, and it will not cause any harm to the P&C. Most fuel in the U.S. has some form of aolchol in it.

Running a saw out of fuel while making a cut is not a good idea, and I don't recommend it. With that said, I've accidentally done this a couple of times and I haven't seen any scratching or scuffing on the P&C whatsoever, it's just one more reason to run good oil at 32:1.

 

[Walt41]

Most fuel and residents contain some form of alcohol!
Well said

 

[Nathan75]

Letting a saw idle out of fuel Is fine, and it will not cause any harm to the P&C. Most fuel in the U.S. has some form of aolchol in it.

Running a saw out of fuel while making a cut is not a good idea, and I don't recommend it. With that said, I've accidentally done this a couple of times and I haven't seen any scratching or scuffing on the P&C whatsoever, it's just one more reason to run good oil at 32:1.

Right on, I run alot of my equipment out of fuel at an idle for storage. Running at high rpms with no load cannot be too good for things but I am guilty of it when first firing saws up. Do not do it with the clutch on as it can jump ship on deceleration.

 

[Fish]

I've heard of the clutch flying apart when reved without a bar and chain.

Wiithout a bar/ chain and "sprocket".